RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted May 30, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2013 This may eventually turn on to a 7mm Scale workbench build (but don't hold your breath). It starts as a quest for information. In an ideal world I would like a pair of high resolution pictures, one of each side, of 72005 Clan MacGregor preferably taken on the same day (I know, I am dreaming) Given how unlikely that wish is can I ask the audience for photo's, directions to photos, sources I might have overlooked as I have been impressed by the number of photos that turn up on RMWeb when a question is asked. I have the RCTS books on BR Standards and several other books on the subject but you can never have enough and there isn't the one picture that really grabs your attention. The resolution of some of the book pictures is a bit rubbish too For some reason I have a soft spot for the BR Standard Clan (and not Chat Moss bog) and many years ago in my formative modelling years I built the Model Loco kit for a Clan in 4mm and did all sorts of things to it like making the valve gear work, adding a fully lined paint job and then committing the heinous crime (in some peoples eyes) of weathering it. Way back then (30 years at a guess) it either won prizes in competitions or was rejected as rubbish (it really was a Marmite job back then). I am obviously not cured of this weird obsession despite my current declared narrow gauge preferences so a 7mm Scale version is planned. Doing things in and @rse about manner, I have JPL wheels in stock for it, I get the motor gearbox for it on Saturday but won't get the kit until Guildex. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Who's kit are you getting? OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted May 30, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 30, 2013 Who's kit are you getting? OzzyO. OzzyO, I am getting the Seven Models kit. Don't fancy making a lead brick version. I nearly bought it at Kettering but I was trading there myself and my stall was next to JPL and I mentioned my Clan fetish in conversation to them and came away with a set of wheels at a price I would have been a fool to turn down. I am next to them at Cleckheaton on Saturday and they are bringing me the tender wheels and ABC are bringing me the motor/gearbox Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted May 30, 2013 Share Posted May 30, 2013 Try these, No. five did not get fitted with A.W.S. the only one in the class. OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Traxson Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I hope this 7mm version is as high a standard as Paul's 4mm one. It was the best running 4mm model I have ever seen, the only sound when it was running was the wheels over rail joints, almost ghostly. The finish was as in the colour picture above. You set the bar pretty high with that one Paul, lets see you beat it.!!(reversing gear that changes with direction of travel??) Phil T. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted May 31, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 31, 2013 You set the bar pretty high with that one Paul, lets see you beat it.!!(reversing gear that changes with direction of travel??) I had something like that in mind Phil. Thanks to OzzyO for the two pictures above. I have been doing some searching and had a look at the Colour Rail catalogue and it would seem that 72005 was a shy engine. With only ten of them I suppose there are going to be less photos of them than some other classes but Clan MacGregor seems more bashful than the rest. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 It may have been a bit camera-shy, but was quite well travelled. I remember as a youngster sitting at the end of platform 1 at Derby, a standard loco appears from under London Road bridge, presumably a 'Brit'. Not quite it was 72005! It had been on a bit of a wander apparently, the wanderings are documented somewhere on the net, I believe it got as far south as Bristol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted May 31, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 31, 2013 Now that is even more justification for the model me being a Derby lad. Are there any pictures of it at Derby? well I might have started further east but my train spotting days were Derby based. No Clan's though, just Peaks and Class 20's in my day. We used to spot by Breadsall Crossing box where Ford Lane crossed the line north of Derby and where the A38 does now. (thinking back we used to curse D99, 45135, 3rd Carabinier & D100, 45060, Sherwood Forester as it seemed as though they were running the North East - South West service on their own one summer - would be delighted to see either of them doing it now) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
great central Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Now that is even more justification for the model me being a Derby lad. Are there any pictures of it at Derby? well I might have started further east but my train spotting days were Derby based. No Clan's though, just Peaks and Class 20's in my day. We used to spot by Breadsall Crossing box where Ford Lane crossed the line north of Derby and where the A38 does now. (thinking back we used to curse D99, 45135, 3rd Carabinier & D100, 45060, Sherwood Forester as it seemed as though they were running the North East - South West service on their own one summer - would be delighted to see either of them doing it now) No picture I'm afraid but found reference to it here: http://semaphore.avonvalleyrailway.org/html/yatememart3.html About half way down, 9th July 1960. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochinvar Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 There's a very sharp b/w portrait of 72005 (lh side) stationary on Haymarket shed in Harry Knox's "Steam Days at Haymarket" (ISBN -10 1-903266-77-7). According to the author,it was taken in Mar '59 ,during a brief (and unhappy) period of re-allocation to 64B. If its detail that you're looking for,you'll struggle to do better than this one. DR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted May 31, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 31, 2013 No picture I'm afraid but found reference to it here: http://semaphore.avo...atememart3.html About half way down, 9th July 1960. At 2 months and 7 days old I wasn't train spotting by that stage. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted May 31, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 31, 2013 Posted Today, 20:12 There's a very sharp b/w portrait of 72005 (lh side) stationary on Haymarket shed in Harry Knox's "Steam Days at Haymarket" (ISBN -10 1-903266-77-7). According to the author,it was taken in Mar '59 ,during a brief (and unhappy) period of re-allocation to 64B. If its detail that you're looking for,you'll struggle to do better than this one. DR Is that by any chance a photo of it stood with apparently a telegraph pole with lamp sticking out of the whistle and just the bag of a water crane behind it. There is also another loco on a more distant track behind it? I ask because that describes a good image I have but which has no description with it. I'd post it but its not mine to post. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochinvar Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 No,Paul. Facing W,she has the water tank behind the loco, and a pole emerging from the back of the tender. (The whistle would of course be on the rh side). DR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted May 31, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted May 31, 2013 No,Paul. Facing W,she has the water tank behind the loco, and a pole emerging from the back of the tender. (The whistle would of course be on the rh side). DR that could be useful then as it and the decent side view I have off the whistle side would give high resolution shots of both sides and with OzzyO's pictures above I should be OK. Does the book by any chance credit the photographer or collection source. The one I have of the RH side has now been identified as a Colour Rail image and was taken at Kingmoor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Boyd Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Paul, couple of good clear shots of 72005 at Rail Photoprints :http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p634808190/h389d41c4#h35b10c09 & http://railphotoprints.zenfolio.com/p634808190/h389d41c4#h389d41c4 Regards, Mick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochinvar Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 that could be useful then as it and the decent side view I have off the whistle side would give high resolution shots of both sides and with OzzyO's pictures above I should be OK. Does the book by any chance credit the photographer or collection source. The one I have of the RH side has now been identified as a Colour Rail image and was taken at Kingmoor Harry Knox credits this particular image to "(J. Robertson/Transport Treasury)". HTH,and bon chance with the project. DR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted June 1, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 1, 2013 Thanks for the help so far.......... RM Web gets places. It was good to talk to the several people who have read this thread and who were at the Gauge 0 Guild Cleckheaton show today. That was a pleasant surprise. It was good to meet OzzyO as well. On the picture front I have a ColourRail picture that shows the RHS of 72005 in 1959 at Kingmoor and I am chasing down a copy of the book that shows the LHS of the engine on Haymarket shed, also in 59. I am awaiting with interest news of that picture to see if 72005 has acquired a speedo by then. If it has, the pair of 59 photos will be the ones used. The pair of photo's MIck has pointed out on Rail Photo Prints are superb and will probably also be used but they are from 56 and pre date the speedo fitting. As OzzyO has pointed out Clan MacGregor ducked the AWS fitting queue but did get a speedo and I would prefer to model it in the later period simply because other models I may do(usual caveats about living long enough etc) wouldn't have existed in 56. As a result of today's show my 7mm Scale Clan MacGregor has wheels, gears and motor. All I seem to be missing is the actual kit! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lochinvar Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Paul - no speedo fitted in the Mar '59 shot. DR Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Paul: you work the opposite way round to me, I impulse buy a kit, then can never afford wheels, gears, and motors...... I like Clans too, and have supported the Hengist project. A good friend has done welding and fabrication for them. The closest I got to seeing one was as we exited the paintshops at Crewe Works, March 6th 1966, a huge shout of "Clan!!!" went up, but it was only a very sad looking Duke Of Gloucester.......I took about a dozen photos, but my dad contrived to lose the film before it was developed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted June 2, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 2, 2013 Jeff, I too am prone to the impulse buy that then nothing happens with (apart from it stopping the dust getting as far as the shelf) On this occassion circumstances and JPL turned the normal on its head. Trouble I am having now is that having the bits and no kit I am frustrated at having to wait until Guildex for the kit. Thoughts have turned to getting it sooner but that revolves around someone buying my Heljan Green class 47 that I did buy on a whim and its also stupid as its not like I have nothing to do until I get the kit. When the build does start it'll be a slow one. It may even make your efforts with AlkaZeltzer look nippy. I am in the same boat as OzzyO in that I do models for a living and 72005 is a personal project so it'll be something like his build of Anne done at weekends and evenings. Trouble is i go an drive the real thing on the narrow gauge at weekends Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffP Posted June 2, 2013 Share Posted June 2, 2013 Ah...Alcazar...I'd LOVE to get back to it, but am very prone to a bad back, and have had an awful two months. Then I'm out of the country from mid-July until the beginning of September. Plus I have to work out how to make good the damage I have done to the tender chassis so far....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted June 3, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 3, 2013 Paul - no speedo fitted in the Mar '59 shot. DR So now the quest becomes, " when did it get its speedo?" All the RCTS book on the BR Standard Pacific's states under the fitted of speedo's job code is "not by 5/56". Seems a bit of a poor effort for what ought to be the bible of such info when in this discussion we have improved it to "not by 3/59". Time to get all my standards picture books out and go 72005 spotting Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted June 4, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted June 4, 2013 Still digging and becoming facinated........ ...........and unearthing some conundrums. Earlier mucklebackit drew my attention to a photo of 72005 on Haymarket shed. Today I was sent a scan of the book page and I decided to see if I could get to the source. I looked on the Transport Treasury website but couldn't find it so I emailed them a copy of the scan to ask if it was one of theirs. This is the image from Harry Knox's "Steam Days at Haymarket" The caption reads, "one of the four detested `Clans' transferred to Haymarket in October 1958, 72005 CLAN MACGREGOR stands in the shed loop on the 28th March 1959, very much unloved and apparently unwanted. Within a month, she and her sister engines will be but a bad memory at 64B, although two did come back briefly to haunt us at the end of 1959. This surely was the poorest of the `standard' classes and even Polmadie and Kingmoor men, who had most exposure to the class, did not have their troubles to seek when working these engines. (J. Robertson/Transport Treasury) I'm guessing he didn't like them! Thing is, just when I though I had a March 1959 photo this scan turns up This time the caption reads: The Clans kept to a failry strictly defined `home patch' throughout their working lives. Roughly Speaking this was `the Preston - Perth axis' as the RCTS Britiish Railways Standard Steam Locomotoves puts it. By 1955 it is said that the Polmadie Clans were not being used to the full, certainly three whent to Haymarket in 1957, for work on the Waverley route. One was No 72005 CLAN MACGREGOR, seen here at Haymarket shed on 2nd March 1958. Note the external regulator rod; the extra steadying bracket, as mentioned in the Report, is clearly visible half way along the first section, on the firebox side. In earlier views this is absent. Photograph J. Robertson, B.P Hoper Collection Its pretty certain its the same day but taken from just a few steps different angle but we now have two dates 28th March 1959 for the first picture and 2nd March 1958 for the second picture. The other error would seem to be the second picture describing 72005 as a Polmadie engine as other records make her a Kingmoor engine for all her service life. My e-mail to the Transport Treasury received the reply that they had both images and that they also had a portrait view of the other side. I will be getting high resolution prints of those but I have e-mailed them back to ask if they can confirm the date. I have also been through the various BR Standard books I have and have found, or reminded myself, of the following: - 72005 was camera shy There's a lot of boring 3/4 front views of engines and just how poor the photo reproduction is in a lot of these books So, still trying to pin down when she got a speedo and dreaming of the e-mail arriving with a sharp colour picture or her when she escaped to the south and passed through Derby when I was two months and 7 days old (I said it was a dream) (Edit - I forgot to add that Transport Treasury http://www.transporttreasury.co.uk kindly gave permission for the low res scans to be published here) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ngtrains.com Posted August 25, 2013 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted August 25, 2013 Time for a bit of an update......... thanks to the help from this forum my original questions is moving on an will shortly become a workbench build topic...... I have to hand A selection of Clan photo's in general and some specific ones for Clan MacGregor. We still failed to prove when gained its speedo so this will be a no speedo and no AWS model (we know it dodged the AWS queue) A full set of turned wheels for the loco and tender from JPL A motor/gearbox from ABC In addition The Seven Models Clan kit is ordered for collection at Guildex The Severn Mill Nameplates set of plates for the loco on order I want to build the loco with roller bearings so the next thing to research is axle boxes and horns. Should I Buy some and if so which? I note from reading other peoples workbenches that when you bore the usual brass bearing out to take the roller bearing it tends to break through the sides as the OD of the bearing is the same as the AF of the brass bearing. Make my own with the bearing and horn just a smidge bigger. I have the workshop tools to do this but not necessarily the time. Also what would the impact on the rest of it be of bearings a smidge bigger There will doubtless be loads more questions as I progress but as we are now getting into the realms of actually building the thing I will repeat this question as the first part of a workbench topic here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/75417-br-standard-class-6-clan-macgregor/ If you see this version first and have a suggestion please follow the link and add your reply there Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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