Cornish train formations

[Rivercider]

Glorious (not!) at Lostwithiel

In far from glorious weather 50033 Glorious runs up through Lostwithiel.

I don't know what the working was, the time was 12.05 on Wednesday 23rd June 1980.

(50040 Leviathan was on the following 11.05 Penzance - Plymouth, which was 12.24 off Lostwithiel)

 

cheers

[Rivercider]

Here is one from 1983

1B59 13.45 Penzance - Bristol calls at St Austell behind 45128, 8/3/83 

 

cheers

 

[Djcwey]

I'm prepared to buy that.  The angle is very acute making it hard to be absolutely certain but having blown the image up as large as I can and gone over it with a pointy thing i can indeed only count five windows in total.  I can't readily trace any official declassifications of CK coaches but do have a vague recollection that some (possibly only one seen multiple times) existed - even if unofficially - and with markings removed but first class seating in tact.  I also travelled on the trains in question numerous times and observed them on many more occasions though without taking detailed notes or photos at the time.

I reckon it is a BCK.  It IS difficult to count the precise number of windows... but count the number of 'bumpstops' on the side of the rear of the coach, the number and position of 'running boards', and it would appear to indicate only one set of double doors in the brake section (not two, as per a BSK - the first coach in the rake)?

[Flood]

Well it's not a BCK. The photo on post 29 clearly shows that it is a BFK, which also have only one set of double doors.

Edited July 29, 2013 by Flood

[Tim H]

When's the Hayle photo dated? I've seen a BFK on a Cornish local in April 1988, quite possibly the same vehicle.

[alexross42]

While recently watching some of the videos from the The Alan Harrison Collection on YouTube (which is excellent and highly recommended viewing for fans of mid-1980s B.R.) a particular formation from the video "Part 16 Bodmin, Lostwithiel & Par" piqued my interest - it shows a 50 leaving Bodmin Road heading West with a four-coach load which initially I thought must be a Plymouth-Penzance stopper, but the consist struck me as a bit odd:

Mk1 Buffet Restaurant
MK2f FO (i think it's an 'f' - could be a 'd'!)
MK2A with NSE flashes
MK2C BSO or BSK

 

It's a great one to model but the inclusion of a full buffet isn't something I've seen before on the many variations of the 1980's loco-hauled Plym-Penz service - is it possible this was split from a longer consist or just another of the many formation possibilities to add to the list?

 

The video can be viewed below:

 

 

Thanks,

Ross.

Edited July 24, 2020 by alexross42
Clarity

[Flood]

The whole rake seems a bit strange. I would guess that they had stock at Penzance booked for maintenance at Laira so they made a rake of replacements to work Plymouth - Penzance in order for the coaches needing maintenance could be worked back on the next service.

 

Or it is a scratch rake being used for a local service diagram with the RBR being attached to be available at Penzance to replace another.

[Gwiwer]

On-train catering wasn't commonplace through Cornwall until the HSTs took over.  It would be unlikely that an RBR was sent from Laira to Long Rock on a Plymouth - Penzance stopper just to attach it to an up train.  That would normally have been done as a portion added at Plymouth.

 

The formation suggests a scratch set having been made up of anything available.  

[alexross42]

Thanks for your replies chaps, I was doing some more research via Flickr and found an image that may well provide an answer - it's a very similar load four consist (complete with RBR) running into Penzance on a local service where the stock is then used to form part of a long distance service, perhaps the same process was happening on this day?

 

https://flic.kr/p/b4Xwh8

 

The caption reads - "50013 'Agincourt' heads a small but perfectly formed train of one buffet car, one first, one second and one brake van into Penzance on 16.3.87. This was the 07.27 from Plymouth, the vehicles of which then formed part of a long distance departure from Penzance - probably the 10.30 to Liverpool"

 

Regards,

Ross.

[The Pilotman]

We don’t know if all the sequences in that video were filmed on the same day but the up train that passes through Lostwithiel twelve minutes from the start certainly appears to have those same four coaches at the head of the train. This would concur with the Flickr caption you refer to and suggests that this was more likely to be a regular booked working rather than a one-off scratch set as surmised above. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by Western Aviator

[Flood]

9 hours ago, Gwiwer said:

On-train catering wasn't commonplace through Cornwall until the HSTs took over.  It would be unlikely that an RBR was sent from Laira to Long Rock on a Plymouth - Penzance stopper just to attach it to an up train.  That would normally have been done as a portion added at Plymouth.

 

The formation suggests a scratch set having been made up of anything available.  

Seeing as the 50 is in large logo it is certain to be after 1980 when the HSTs came. The 07.30 Penzance - Glasgow/Edinburgh always had the buffet from Penzance and gained BG, 2 TSO at Plymouth to make the whole rake 13 coaches.

 

The flickr photo is interesting. I remember the Liverpool and Newcastle dropping stock at Plymouth until May 1987 on the way to Penzance in the evening so a morning working to bring the stock together again would be plausible. I have no reason to doubt the flickr caption.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Flood

[MJI]

I just found this interesting thread.

 

I have the formations of at least 10 rakes of 50+4 Plymouth Penzance stoppers from early 80s.

 

Also a number of Paddington PZ trains with aircons.

[alexross42]

On 09/10/2020 at 10:08, MJI said:

I just found this interesting thread.

 

I have the formations of at least 10 rakes of 50+4 Plymouth Penzance stoppers from early 80s.

 

Also a number of Paddington PZ trains with aircons.

Hi Martin,

I'd certainly be interested in seeing the 50+4 rake formations if you'd care to share them?

 

Best regards,

Ross.

[MJI]

Plymouth PZ roughly dinner time

 

10/01/83 47,549    W24012 W35196 W16108 W25250
PARCELS SIDING M81109 M86534

11/01/83 50,033 LL W34560 W5034 W16255 W24086
PS M81112 W86576

 

12/01/83 50,025 LL W25250 W16108 W35196 W24012
PS M81415 W86190

 

13/01/83 47,513    80847 W25962 M25721 M16124 4939 25715 81476 25671 13412 25627
PS M80908 W86576

 

14/01/83 50,028    W34560 W5034 W16225 W34551
PS M80788 M86534

 

15/01/93 50,026    M16124 M25721 W25962 M81362
PS 86328

 

17/01/83 50,002    M81362 W25962 M25721 M16124
PS M80553 M86905

 

18/01/83 50,001    W34551 W16225 W5034 W34560
PS M81279 M898?8 (4 OR 9)

 

19/01/83 50,027    W25962 M25721 M16124 W35201
PS M81436 M86163

 

20/01/83 50,022    W34551 W16225 W34560
PS M81065 M86541

Edited October 14, 2020 by MJI

[EddieK]

On 19/06/2013 at 14:50, cornish trains jez said:

Another nice set of photos Craig. I'll definitely be modelling the rake in those first two photos!! Do you know which 50 was hauling it? Also, was the DVT rake running in the 80's??

 

Best regards,

 

Jeremy

Only just found this thread.

When I started work at Wembley Carriage Depot in August 1989, as I recall, all the Mark 3 sets based there retained Mark 1 BGs, although the Oxley based sets may have been using DVTs. (The Oxley sets were Mark 2f stock with Mark 3 buffet cars)..

I am presuming that the Milton Keynes to Penzance was a Summer service? Also, my memory tells me that the Penzance working did not originate until Summer 1990 - please correct me if I am wrong.....

The punch line is that it is unlikely that DVTs reached Penzance in the 1980s.

[Gwiwer]

Milton Keynes - Penzance was a summer-only out-and-back working iirc. The WCML “EBW” rakes ( Euston Birmingham Wolverhampton) included Mk1 BGs with special maintenance and authority to run at 110mph (built as 90mph stock, many later uprated to 100mph) and likewise those catering vehicles which were used until the Mk3 ones were ready.