Farish Fairburn 2-6-4T

[paulprice]

This is what has put me on spending my hard earned on the latest Farish products, I plucked up the courage to buy an Austerity  and despite visiting 3 retailers would not find one that ran without a wobble/rock and one that made an interesting noise before emitting a decent smoke effect. When I tried to but a Ivatt the only 2 examples the shop I visited had in stock of the LMS example had damaged valve gear

 

Perhaps I'm just a jinx ??

[TomE]

In terms of the new coreless generation of Farish models, I've had a 50/50 split between acceptable runners and those which needed to be returned. In the case of the returnees they were sent back due to problems which could all be traced to the wheelsets so there is clearly a problem somewhere, but is it a design flaw, production issue, poor QC or even a combination of all 3, and more importantly are Bachmann seeing the reports of problems here and on other forums and paying attention to them?

 

Buying a Farish engine, particularly online and without seeing it run, shouldn't be like playing Russian Roulette but it is increasingly starting to feel like it. I've even contemplated ordering two of the same model then sending one back once I know I've got a decent runner!

 

Tom.

[oreamnos]

[edit]

 

Buying a Farish engine, particularly online and without seeing it run, shouldn't be like playing Russian Roulette but it is increasingly starting to feel like it. I've even contemplated ordering two of the same model then sending one back once I know I've got a decent runner!

 

Tom.

 

Funny, I have contemplated doing this from time to time, but have never actually done it!

 

As has been said oftentimes elsewhere, it's not just Farish.  It's been a few months since I bought an engine but I bought several last fall.  Dapol 2-8-0 l/c was fine (though noisy).  Farish WD l/c was fine.  Farish J39 l/c simulated mechanical lubricator was missing the pin connecting it to the body and exchanged - replacement was fine.  Farish Ivatt part of the valve gear on one side was installed backwards but I was able to put it right.  Farish 3MT tank bought "Like New" from Hattons had the dome attached backwards by the factory (I knew that when I bought it b/c it was obvious in the picture) but it was a bargain for 50 quid and I was able to fix that, too.  What's that?  3 faulty locos out of 5?  Seems typical.

 

I don't really think QC in general has improved in recent years and it's unfortunately still really a complete crap shoot what you get regardless of manufacturer if you buy sight unseen.  Base on what I read in the forums some models seem to be designed in such a way that the Chinese putting them together can do a better job of it so as a whole the production run of that model seems to have fewer faults compared to other models.  Or maybe certain factories are better at assembly that others.  Certainly the mixed bag of assembly quality means that to bring at least some models up to intended spec we all need to do some modelling - whether we like to or not!

 

The "wobble report" from Hattons cited above has me leary about buying a Fairburn.  It's a lovely looking thing but I think I shall sit on the fence until more consistent positive reports are posted.

 

Matt

[Elvinley]

Things have definitely got worse recently with Farish locos. In the past, most of them were good, with the odd problem but I agree with Tom that it is a gamble now. It is a shame because the good ones are so good; I have recently had a Fairburn which is a great runner, even over Insulfrog points and a class 70 which is probably the best runner I have.

[paulprice]

The thing is that I only really buy locomotives in shops once I have seen them running, as a customer its very annoying to see a locomotive fail in front of your eyes, it must be even worst for the retailer, after all its their livelihood that is being effected.

 

Locomotives are not cheap, even when they are discounted, for some modellers its a massive outlay, remember the days when as kids we would frantically save to get out hands on the locomotive of our dreams. What concerns me is that what effect is that having on new modellers, I know as a youngster if I went to purchase my new engine, only for a quality issue like this to be found, my parents would go ape!

 

It certainly is not a good advert for the manufacturer, but I wonder if this is also having an impact on the reputation of the innocent retailers too?

[oreamnos]

The thing is that I only really buy locomotives in shops once I have seen them running, as a customer its very annoying to see a locomotive fail in front of your eyes, it must be even worst for the retailer, after all its their livelihood that is being effected.

 

Locomotives are not cheap, even when they are discounted, for some modellers its a massive outlay, remember the days when as kids we would frantically save to get out hands on the locomotive of our dreams. What concerns me is that what effect is that having on new modellers, I know as a youngster if I went to purchase my new engine, only for a quality issue like this to be found, my parents would go ape!

 

It certainly is not a good advert for the manufacturer, but I wonder if this is also having an impact on the reputation of the innocent retailers too?

 

I have no choice but to buy sight unseen but if I lived in the UK and could do differently I would, especially if my hypothetical "local model shop" was not too far off on price from the box shifters.  Fortunately the box shifters I buy from have superb service and have always made things right when I've gotten a dud.  I was under the impression that if a consumer returns a defective loco to his retailer, the retailer simply returns it to the manufacturer for credit.  It certainly must be a hassle for the retailer but I don't think the retailer would be stuck with the defective goods in inventory.  I'd be happy to be educated on how this actually works if my impression is incorrect.

 

I think you make a very valid point that it is crucial for attracting new people to the hobby that the models must work as intended right out of the box.  I should think though that a retailer would not be negatively impacted reputation-wise as a consequence of selling defective products that they didn't manufacture.  I think a retailer's reputation is far more likely to be made (or broken) by how well it assists the consumer in arranging for the consumer to obtain a replacement for the defective product originally supplied.

 

Matt

[paulprice]

I understand that the manufactures will not leave the retailers "out of pocket" by supplying unsuitable locomotives, the point I'm trying to make is that potentially they are seeing their profits walking away. In one retailer I visited they only had 3 Ivatts in stock, all of which "failed" when test run. I was "passing trade" as it was not a retailer I had visited before.

 

Their customer service to me was brilliant, when I told them I was not from the area they even offered to post a working locomotive to me (postage to be provided free), but when hearing where about I lived, they admitted defeat as in their words "Hattons" was almost on my doorstep and the models was being sold by them at nearly £10 less.

 

In these harsh economic times we are seeing more and more model retailers disappearing from the high street so they need all the business they can get, I have been in a retailer lately where a junior modeller was attempting to buy a new loco, and when it failed they were ushered from the shop by their mother who told the red faced assistant they would shop elsewhere to get a working model

[oreamnos]

I admit I did not understand your point from your ealier post.  It is surprisingly difficult for me to put myself in the shoes of a consumer shopping in an actual shop given that can't do that!  Thank you for the clarifying backstory.

 

I can understand the reaction of the mother of the junior modeller - in her mind the retailer should have checked the goods before offering them for sale.  And she would have a valid point, actually.  Model locos are luxury goods, minatures of complex machines which themselves are complex.  Someone new to the hobby who, unlike the posters on this forum, was ignorant of the generally non-existent QC of the current crop of made in China models would not understand that getting a working model is oftentimes completely the luck of the draw, and would be far less understanding of the circumstances than one of us.

 

In the current comptetive marketplace I think a truly exceptional local model shop would actually appreciate and compensate for the QC failure of the manufacturers by testing the stock it received when it arrived.  I don't know how practicable this would be for retailers to do but it would seem to me to be worthwhile for them to test their stock in inventory so they can actually know in advance their merchandise will work before a potential buyer asks to see it run.  Surely local model shops do not carry loco inventory levels so large that this would be completely impossible for them to do?  Can a retailer itself reject an item received into stock from a manufacturer as unsuitable for purpose if it runs poorly when tested, or must it be sold first to a consumer and then returned to the retailer before the retailer can send it back?

 

Matt

[Dr Al]

In terms of the new coreless generation of Farish models, I've had a 50/50 split between acceptable runners and those which needed to be returned. In the case of the returnees they were sent back due to problems which could all be traced to the wheelsets so there is clearly a problem somewhere,

 

There are 2 simple issues that need addressed:

 

- relative quartering of all the wheelsets (in particular the geared ones don't always match the outers, presumably as a different jig is used for these).

- the central plastic insulators on the wheels - these can be moulded such that the wheels do not sit quite concentric on the axles (I have changed some of them about in the past to remove wobbles). Always going to be a problem with this design as it relies entirely on the moulding of this plastic part being perfect...

 

These are the main reasons for all the wobbles being seen...

Cheers,

Alan

[paulprice]

It's not good when you potentially have to rework brand new locomotives to make the operable, being a stubborn so and so, it has put me off buying an Austerity/Ivatt and Fairburn, I have done without them this long, a little while longer wont hurt though my resolve is weakening

[johnlambert]

I had a Farish 3MT which didn't so much wobble as limp.  It was bought from a reputable retailer at a model ralway show and returned without quibble but it has put me off buying any steam loco without first seeing it run.

 

Although I no longer work in engineering I did study it at degree level and one of the things drummed into us was that you should, wherever possible, design things so that they cannot be assembled incorrectly.  Maybe it is expecting too much when working on such fine components but it certainly sounds like there is room for improvement in designing for correct assembly.

[oreamnos]

I had a Farish 3MT which didn't so much wobble as limp.  It was bought from a reputable retailer at a model ralway show and returned without quibble but it has put me off buying any steam loco without first seeing it run.

 

Although I no longer work in engineering I did study it at degree level and one of the things drummed into us was that you should, wherever possible, design things so that they cannot be assembled incorrectly.  Maybe it is expecting too much when working on such fine components but it certainly sounds like there is room for improvement in designing for correct assembly.

 

Since you mentioned the Farish 3MT, here's

http://www.ehattons.com/52824/Graham_Farish_372_328_Standard_Class_3MT_2_6_2_Tank_82026_BR_lined_black_with_early_emblem/StockDetail.aspx

an old Hattons listing with pictures of one from the first batch, new straight out of the box.

 

Notice anything odd about the dome?  A whole bunch of 3MTs came over from China (in all liveries) with the dome glued on backwards.  Some were correct, some weren't.  Having taken one apart that had the dome on backwards in order to put it the right way 'round, I can tell you that Farish actually did mould a key into the boiler and the dome so the the dome could theoretically only be put on one way, but the key was very shallow and clearly it was ineffective.

 

Matt

[acourtrail]

I bought a Fairburn (Early BR 42096) yesterday and so far so good.  The shop test ran it for for me so that I could see how well it ran and there was no wobbling I could see so I must have an OK one.  Running in at home has been done, I like to do half an hour chimney first then the same bunker first and then repeat this but with the loco put on the track the other way round so that the gears can bed in evenly.  Out of interst does anyone know where too the real 42096 ran please.

[msw2009]

I bought a Fairburn (Early BR 42096) yesterday and so far so good.  The shop test ran it for for me so that I could see how well it ran and there was no wobbling I could see so I must have an OK one.  Running in at home has been done, I like to do half an hour chimney first then the same bunker first and then repeat this but with the loco put on the track the other way round so that the gears can bed in evenly.  Out of interst does anyone know where too the real 42096 ran please.

 

I've also just taken the plunge with 42096 and am delighted I did so. This is an absolutely wonderful model which fully deserves the praise heaped on it in the press. The motion is particularly fine, as is the finish, shape etc. etc.  It looks a treat pulling the new Bulleids

 

I got lucky (for once) - no wobbles - it ran perfectly and quietly straight from the box.  All bodes well for the Std 4 Tank, although it has to be said from a little distance the Fairburn is almost indistinguishable - minor changes to the cab and tanks aside.

 

SEMG http://www.semgonline.com/steam/Fairburn-01.html states that they operated on the SE section. 

 

Hope that helps.

[orcadian]

I bought a Fairburn (Early BR 42096) yesterday and so far so good.  

 

 Out of interst does anyone know where too the real 42096 ran please.

As you can see from the semgonline link that msw has provided in post #39, 42096 was Brighton-built. It spent most (?all) of its Southern Region days at Ashford (Kent). As the Kent Coast electrification drew closer, there was a mass exchange between the S Reg Fairburns and LM Region Standard Class 4MT tanks, with the Fairburns mainly moving to the London end of the LMR line. By 1960, 42096 was at 1C Watford, and others were (I think) at Bletchley.

 

There were several allocated to Faversham during their Kentish times, probably doing similar work to those at Ashford - local stopping passenger trains. I don't know if the Faversham ones were allowed to cross the very interesting bridge over the Swale channel to Sheppy, or if they were restricted to the Ramsgate and Dover roads - I'm sure others will soon be along to complete the picture (hint, hint!)

 

Richard (formerly a Gillingham spotter, and still a Gillingham supporter but that's off topic!)

[acourtrail]

Thank you msw2009 and orcadian.  I already knew 42096 was built at Brighton but not where she ran so I apreciate the allocation information thank you.  I now have an excuse to stock up on some Bullied coaches or some green mk1s.  Also what mine has been pulling so far (Midland MK1s and some BR liveried Staniers) is not out of place.

[Karhedron]

In the current comptetive marketplace I think a truly exceptional local model shop would actually appreciate and compensate for the QC failure of the manufacturers by testing the stock it received when it arrived.

Can be tricky for a number of reasons. Firstly the shop may not have a test track. Some shops are quite small and any display layout is more likely to be 00 than N gauge. Secondly, not everyone wants their boxes opened. Some items are bought by collectors who want their purchases pristine. Thirdly, it takes time to open each box, carefully remove the loco, run it and then return it. Most model shops are small operations with only a few members of staff who also have to price items, manage stock, accept deliveries and even occasionally serve customers.

 

Having said that, most shops will test run a loco for you in advance if you ask them. My local model shop is always happy to do this for me on request, even to the extent of running all the ones he has and letting me pick the one I want.

 

As a result, he gets a lot of repeat business from me.

[Les1952]

Just as a point of info- BOTH the 42096s I sent back developed faults in their first hour of running. The only initial indication that all might not be as it should be was that the offside piston rod was moving in a triangular path rather than backwards and forwards in a straight line. It was only as the loco loosened generally that it started jamming at low speeds and hesitating at mid-range speeds.

 

Certainly unless told in advance a model shop would not pick up a triangular motion of a piston rod as a "going to fail".

 

All the very best

Les

[Roy L S]

 

Just as a point of info- BOTH the 42096s I sent back developed faults in their first hour of running. The only initial indication that all might not be as it should be was that the offside piston rod was moving in a triangular path rather than backwards and forwards in a straight line. It was only as the loco loosened generally that it started jamming at low speeds and hesitating at mid-range speeds.

 

Certainly unless told in advance a model shop would not pick up a triangular motion of a piston rod as a "going to fail".

 

All the very best

Les

Hi Les

 

There do appear to have been a few reports of "wobbles" relating to these locos but in terms of overall number doubtless still a very small percentage. A few hours in and my Fairburn is still running superbly as it would seem from reports I have read are plenty of others (and probably those of most of the "silent majority" too!).

 

From postings I have seen the type of symptoms of failure you have experienced with your Fairburns appear pretty untypical. Frustrating for you I am sure (as your whole experience with these locos appears to have been) but still untypical.

 

In the majority circumstances for those who require it a suitable test run at the shop would be sufficient to verify all being well in terms of smoothness and lack of "wobbles" out of the box and that would be the objective of it. It will never be able to identify issues that the initial few hours of running might (which in my expereince is when a loco regardless of type or manufacturer is most likely to play up) .

 

Regards

 

Roy

[Les1952]

Hi Les

 

There do appear to have been a few reports of "wobbles" relating to these locos but in terms of overall number doubtless still a very small percentage. A few hours in and my Fairburn is still running superbly as it would seem from reports I have read are plenty of others (and probably those of most of the "silent majority" too!).

 

From postings I have seen the type of symptoms of failure you have experienced with your Fairburns appear pretty untypical. Frustrating for you I am sure (as your whole experience with these locos appears to have been) but still untypical.

 

In the majority circumstances for those who require it a suitable test run at the shop would be sufficient to verify all being well in terms of smoothness and lack of "wobbles" out of the box and that would be the objective of it. It will never be able to identify issues that the initial few hours of running might (which in my expereince is when a loco regardless of type or manufacturer is most likely to play up) .

 

Regards

 

Roy

 

On the positive side the detail is superb and the 2MT and WD have restored my faith in coreless motors, having had a very high proportion of dud Falhauber motors in Minitrix locos.  So impressed am I with the 2MT that I now have spent an arm and a leg on a sound-fitted one- and am not regretting a penny of the cost.

 

All the very best

Les

[Tom J]

Oh dear. I was having a good run as well - the 'Jinty' and '2MT' both ran sweetly from the word go. I have a 42096 for my birthday (ordered in for my wife by the local shop - have given up mail ordering locos now!) that is really rather 'tail-happy'. I'm going to run it in as advised and see how we go. A solitary Mk1 on the back hasn't settled it but rather made it more obvious so far.

[Crumplezone]

Apologies for bringing up a older topic but I was able to get a excellent running weathered version brand new, from a model shop, no wobbles or issues with lockups and very quiet.

However, what I wanted to know from those who have a fairburn is how do you gain relatively easy access to oiling the gears and worm part of the motor?

I had a look at the model with the bodyshell off and the motor seems to be encased with the two halfs of the metal chassis. Taking out the screw for the halves and the two screws which hold the slidebar and connection rod assembly to the loco doesn't seem to loosen the halves by much to get a precision oiler in between the chassis halves to reach the worm and gears.

The exploded diagram on the instruction leaflet doesn't give much indication on how to get to the gear area in a simple fashion and from further looking at the diagram is also feels like you have to dismantle the entire loco just to get to the gears which quite frankly I want to avoid because the cyclinders came lose at one point which were a utter sod to get back into position without causing the slidebar assemble to triangle lock and the loco entirely.

I haven't tried going from the bottom up to get the gears yet via the plate as I didn't want to really disturb the wheels consiering the model is a such a good runner for me, but if that is a easier method than going from the top of the chassis then great.

 

[Dr Al]

Apologies for bringing up a older topic but I was able to get a excellent running weathered version brand new, from a model shop, no wobbles or issues with lockups and very quiet.

 

However, what I wanted to know from those who have a fairburn is how do you gain relatively easy access to oiling the gears and worm part of the motor?

 

 

 

The simple answer is: don't bother.

It's factory lubricated and therefore does not need lubrication from new (unlike Dapol).

 

If it ain't broke then don't fix it, as the old saying goes.

 

Cheers,

Alan