Denbigh (Dinbych) - What might have been

['CHARD]

I think the point is one of re-writing history, and running a spatial 'what-if' process using points on a grid that just happen to have been rail connected, and then disconnected subsequently. I don't think the intention was ever to debate demographic, anthropological, or other factors like transport policy, service centralisation or disposable income- it was to explore how these locations would have looked and felt had they survived the sixties and undergone the rationalisation and rebirth other parts of the network have now seen. At the end of the day it's a desktop case study to highlight some basic principles, if you like. It need not have been Denbigh, could presumably have been Kinross, Melton Constable or Egloskerry.... Or maybe those are our homework

[beast66606]

But Denbigh isn't fictional. In your own words, chose a prototype, close it then reopen it.

We obviously have different ideas on 'fictional'.

 

The history is fictional - otherwise I would be writing an article on Denbigh and its decline.

[coachmann]

The history is fictional - otherwise I would be writing an article on Denbigh and its decline.

I had in mind credibility and historical believability. My mistake.

[woodenhead]

I had in mind credibility and historical believability. My mistake.

 

But using that approach Coach, well the Denbigh route would have shut in 1964 and nothing be left of it now.

 

Had Beast adopted a quadruple track electrified mainline using APTs as his development then I could understand there was a credibility gap, but chipping away at a 1950s trackplan with a resultant slow degradation in facilities ultimately ending in a single line station and a bus shelter seems perfectly plausible to me.

[coachmann]

 

But using that approach Coach, well the Denbigh route would have shut in 1964 and nothing be left of it now.

 

 

Eh? Passenger services ceased before then, and there is nothing left of it now....

 

 

[woodenhead]

Eh? Passenger services ceased before then, and there is nothing left of it now....

 

Passenger services withdrawn in '62, full closure '64 and there is nothing left of it now, that is credible and authentic, it's fact!

 

Point being that if we followed a credible line like you suggest then what has happened to the line is the resultant outcome.

 

I dont understand your negativity to what Beast was attempting to do. I found it quite interesting, but I doubt it will be followed up by Beast or anyone else if all that happens is negative feedback.

[flyingsignalman]

Eh? Passenger services ceased before then, and there is nothing left of it now....

 

 

 

Perhaps he should have chosen Mold which had been suggested as a candidate for reopening, that is until BR inconsiderately lifted the track Mind you, reopening has been suggested since then as well.

[coachmann]

I dont understand your negativity to what Beast was attempting to do. I found it quite interesting

Good for you. It puzzled the hell out of me.

[beast66606]

Good for you. It puzzled the hell out of me.

 

Not sure what's so complicated Coach - the idea is to start from a prototype and then alter history to form a "what if ?" - bit like some models are "What if ?" the line wasn't four tracks, or "What if ?" all the sidings / connections weren't provided or ....

 

The "What if?" idea means that someone who wants to model a station can choose to apply a different history (and that includes all socio-economic factors) to it, and still retain some of the features of the local area - whether they would name it (in this example) Denbigh or Vale Street or Lawnt or London Paddington Parkway is down to them.

 

Sadly the biggest discussion has been explaining the idea so I will let this die a natural death now.

[Guest Phil]

No Dave, don't let it die.

 

I have occasionally armchair-speculated on the fate of Llangynog in a similar manner, particularly after I drove that route en-route to my dad's last week.

 

Although Llangynog was nowhere near the size of Denbigh at all I think a layout portraying a 1980s style BR operation based on one of Gareth's original 150/1s and a couple of 37s would be something nice to play with. Some timber harvesting using OTAs, a bit of agricultural traffic such as bagged fertilizer an stone from the quarries at Blodwell and Nantmawr.

 

Maybe even recreate the Cambrian preservation movement with some tatty old Mk1s waiting / undergoing renovation and an ex Barry condition Hall.

 

I think it is healthy to speculate on what might have been, but even better to see it recreated in 3D in model form.

[MartinWales]

Passenger services withdrawn in '62, full closure '64 and there is nothing left of it now, that is credible and authentic, it's fact!

 

Not exactly-passenger closure April 1962, freight services January 1968-to clear the way for a bypass!

[prime586]

Keep it going.

 

I have these kind of 'alternate history' thoughts all the time - most recently when down in Cardigan and driving through Crymych Arms (plus trying to find trackbed in Cilgerran). I think this down to my faint addiction to the 'Past and Present' books, plus memories of deteriorating trackbeds in and around the West Yorkshire of my youth....

[RELIEF SIGNALMAN]

But Denbigh isn't fictional. In your own words, chose a prototype, close it then reopen it.

We obviously have different ideas on 'fictional'.

 

 

Think the last remains of Denbigh station (platform edging) will dissapear quite soon when the new Tesco will be built on the site of the old Kwiks

[TheFonz1]

Perhaps he should have chosen Mold which had been suggested as a candidate for reopening, that is until BR inconsiderately lifted the track Mind you, reopening has been suggested since then as well.

 

It cannot possibly re-open on its original site as there is a large tesco insitu! There are also houses at the far end of the said supermarket car park on the old track bed.

 

Mind you just beyond that the old line route is still fairly visible and I believe the latest rumour is it is gowing to be a cycleway to join up with the one by the River Dee near Saltney.

 

Back On the subject of Denbigh and the layout in question yes I am interested how is it coming along?

[Mal]

I understand that the proposed site for a new station in Mold would be off Gas Lane near to were Tryddyn Junction used to be.

I have a personal interest as I live within a couple of hundred yards of the proposed site. I am sure the only new physical barrier to the route would be the Mold by-pass which was built in the 1980's. Although I think the chances of these proposals coming to fruition in the present economic climate must be less than zero.

Sorry for taking this even further off topic.

 

Regards,

Malcolm

[beast66606]

More chance of the Amlych branch opening to Llangefni ...

[Happy Hippo]

I've thoroughly enjoyed this 'what if' scenario and have since carried out a number of 'what ifs' to various lacations in South Wales.

 

I ended up finding an excellent site on railway signalling at Tondu complete with a trackplan which I couldn't better.

 

Tondu was a major junction in the heyday of steam and I could never have built it due to a lack of time and space. But with the massive amount of rationalisation that took place in the 60s, it created an operationally satifying and very viable BR(W) junction where I could still justify Panniers, 42 and 56xx with coal workings as well as a rudimentary passenger service. (I just need to call it something other than Tondu: Pant Y Gwrdyl springs to mind. (Perhaps this ought to move to the amusing layout namesmusings?)

 

If I want to I could even go blue diesel with a DMU and a brace of 37s.

 

Regards

 

Richard

[beast66606]

I will probably return to this thread / idea when the winter returns and photography becomes sparse again

 

Tondu is on of those places I've always liked, for no specific logical reason

[flyingsignalman]

I understand that the proposed site for a new station in Mold would be off Gas Lane near to were Tryddyn Junction used to be.

I have a personal interest as I live within a couple of hundred yards of the proposed site. I am sure the only new physical barrier to the route would be the Mold by-pass which was built in the 1980's. Although I think the chances of these proposals coming to fruition in the present economic climate must be less than zero.

Sorry for taking this even further off topic.

 

Regards,

Malcolm

 

 

The Mold by-pass was built before the line through Mold was closed.

I understand that the level crossing equipment at both crossings on the by-pass were reused at the crossings on the Oswestry by-pass when that was built.

[beast66606]

The Mold by-pass was built before the line through Mold was closed.

I understand that the level crossing equipment at both crossings on the by-pass were reused at the crossings on the Oswestry by-pass when that was built.

 

According to a well known signal designer the Oswestry crossing was all new.

[peak_forest]

Stumbled across this while trying to find a track diagram for Denbigh. I have finally found one.I was searching for a location a while ago that could fit on a broad approx 10ft by 2ft and decided on denbigh due the flexability of running short passenger and freight formations to fit on the board. I feel its got great operations opportunities in a what if world due to the amount of quarries on the line to mold and small local coal yard. So be starting my own thread as the design and build starts. Hope the owner of this thread is ok me using his diagram with some modifications to fit into my early 1990's idea.