Switchers, Boxcars, "downtown"- help- it's got hold of me!

[Colossus]

Hello 'overseas' fans,

 

I can't hide it any longer. After decades of happy but blinkered enjoyment of railways exclusively in Britain, I've recently felt some strange sensations which I find

hard to explain: I've started having feelings for grimy, industrial shunting layouts in 'downtown' N.America! It's the Boxcars- their deep bodies,stumpy trucks, romantic owner names - I'm obsessed with 'em!

As proof of my condition, I've even added to my lexicon words such as 'gondola', 'reefer', 'switching', 'spotting' and 'ties'. "Heck", I'll be mis-spelling 'modeller' (modeler) next!

 

As these symptoms show now signs of abating and look certain to express themselves in a small, HO scale urban switching layout anytime soon,

could I ask you learned chaps a few, very rudimentary, questions?

 

First, the inspiration. What is the best of the U.S. modelling magazines - as sold in Britain I mean? Apart from Carl Arendt's superb Small Scale/Micro layout 'scrapbook', are there other good sources of reference to urban switching layouts?

 

Who are the best stockists of US outline HO gauge in Britain? I've found "Model Junction" of Slough, The Signal Box at Rochester. Apart from MG Sharp Sheffield (seemingly a bit pricey), are their any others big on U.S. HO gauge in northern England?

 

Technically: I've heard several guys operating American layouts say how beautifully U.S. locos run. Is this always so? As a beginner who doesn't know is Athearn from his elbow

and will probably only buy one or two 'switching' locos, are there any I should avoid? Are they all good?

 

By way of introduction, that's enough questions for now. Any answers gratefully accepted.

 

Cheers guys.

 

Richard.

[Glorious NSE]

Technically: I've heard several guys operating American layouts say how beautifully U.S. locos run. Is this always so?

 

Always? No.

 

There are well engineered and also less-well engineered models out there in any genre. If you've had a play with UK stuff like the superb Hornby class 60 for example that's the kind of superb running quality you can expect out of a quality US loco.

 

That kind of comment really dates from the days when the US modellers routinely had mechs to that kind of quality whereas the helpful manufacturers of the time for the UK market were telling us that picking up electricity with less than half the wheels on the loco and driving on 2 out of 6 axles with a crummy plastic pancake motor was the height of modernity - the UK has caught up a lot thankfully.

 

Loco wise - for super-fine switching control nothing will beat modern Atlas or Kato - Athearn Genesis (and some RTR) is a close second these days.

 

The US does have plenty of "cheap train set" loco's sold by companies like Model Power and Bachmann, but these are not the way to get a nice smooth running loco, if you're only buying a couple i'd say it's definately worth investing in them being as good quality as you can manage - but there are options out there for buying affordably whilst still getting a good mech if you need to.

[shortliner]

Hello 'overseas' fans,

 

I can't hide it any longer. After decades of happy but blinkered enjoyment of railways exclusively in Britain, I've recently felt some strange sensations which I find

hard to explain: I've started having feelings for grimy, industrial shunting layouts in 'downtown' N.America! It's the Boxcars- their deep bodies,stumpy trucks, romantic owner names - I'm obsessed with 'em!

As proof of my condition, I've even added to my lexicon words such as 'gondola', 'reefer', 'switching', 'spotting' and 'ties'. "Heck", I'll be mis-spelling 'modeller' (modeler) next!

 

As these symptoms show now signs of abating and look certain to express themselves in a small, HO scale urban switching layout anytime soon,

could I ask you learned chaps a few, very rudimentary, questions?

 

First, the inspiration. What is the best of the U.S. modelling magazines - as sold in Britain I mean? Apart from Carl Arendt's superb Small Scale/Micro layout 'scrapbook', are there other good sources of reference to urban switching layouts?

 

Who are the best stockists of US outline HO gauge in Britain? I've found "Model Junction" of Slough, The Signal Box at Rochester. Apart from MG Sharp Sheffield (seemingly a bit pricey), are their any others big on U.S. HO gauge in northern England?

 

Technically: I've heard several guys operating American layouts say how beautifully U.S. locos run. Is this always so? As a beginner who doesn't know is Athearn from his elbow

and will probably only buy one or two 'switching' locos, are there any I should avoid? Are they all good?

 

By way of introduction, that's enough questions for now. Any answers gratefully accepted.

 

Cheers guys.

 

Richard.

 

Richard - welcome to the DarkSide!

For modelling inspiration Ther is the Small Layout Design group on Yahoo

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/small-layout-design/ together with its three sister groups which you will find listed on the homepage - when the available space for files on Yahoo was smaller we kept running out of space - you will need to join each individually to get into the files. There are other groups too on Yahoo including a UK group for modellers of US railways, and the XtrkCad group for users of the program. There are lots of oter sites for US Modelling email me and I'll send you some addresses

 

Re Model shops - one that is slowly building up stock is Macs Models in Kirriemuir, and there is a shop in Bodmin that has a very good reputation

 

Re Models almost modern onesall are good, but try to get those with Kadee couplers rather than "hornhook" of X2F ones - for a small switching layout try to get 8 wheel switchers - ie 2 x 4 wheel bogies rather than 12 wheel mdieseld ie 2 x 6 wheel bogies somthing like an SW9/1200 or a small GP7 or 9

 

Don't be afraid to ask questions - everybody has to learn

 

Best

Jack aka Shortliner

[modelmaker87]

Hi Richard, welcome to US modelling.

 

Martin is absolutely correct in what he has said, couldn't have typed it any better. If you are going to run switchers then Atlas are about king of the hill. If you can afford them, their sound fitted switchers are incredibly good, very realistic sound.

 

Cheers, Tony

[Gilbert]

Hi Richard

Welcome to US modelling. You won't regret it. KDs and US mechs are the way to operate - I also like DCC sound far more in a small switching layout.

Model Junction are certainly recommended - there's also an American modelling UK based Yahoo group and SPV are the video/book pusher of choice. Try to get an invite to an NMRA meet and see whether you think its for you. I certainly benefitted from joining. I assume Derby still has a US element at their show and make an effort to get to Ardenrail in June.

Stock - Atlas switchers are recommended. What era do you think you'll go for? 50/60s with 40' stock is easier for design but some of the latest modern stuff - the Atlas MP15DC with sound for example - is superb.

Chris

[NoggintheNog]

Echo the previous, Atlas are simply excellent, although I must confess the latest broadway Limited SW7 switcher is very, very good, geared to give a maximum scale speed of around 30 mph out of the box, so well suited to small layouts, and its sound system is excellent, its also cheaper than Atlas if that will be a factor.

 

The Macro facility they have (in loco memory for up to 27 movements, including sounds, which it will replay indefinately with no need for computer control, microswitches or anything) works well, although its usefulness on a switcher is debatable.

 

As to the rest , magazines, Railroad Model Craftsman is a quality magazine focused more towards scratchbuilding/fine detailing , Model Railroader is more mainstream, and can be a bit repetetive with its articles if you read it for a few years, but for someone new to the US scene its a decent guide to whats out there. MR's website is also excellent for release information and its forums can be a decent place to gather information.

 

Shops, you covered ther majors, add in

 

www.lswrmodels.co.uk who are mail order only (and attend most of the major exhibitions),

 

and the other option of self import I would recommend www.modeltrainstuff.com/ who I have used many times and offer excellent service - delivery is normally a week or so, remember to allow for a bit of import duty.

[Colossus]

Tony, Shortliner Jack & Martyn;

 

Thanks very much indeed for the replies. I'll cogitate these and come back with more later when I've a bit more time;

one quick question on Switchers though, what is classed as a switching loco? To my (British) eye, only the short 8 wheel twin bogie

locos such as this, seem like shunting engines:

http://www.modeljunction.info/estore/product_info.php?cPath=25_27_72&products_id=11687

 

Or, is it prototypical to use larger locos for switching duty? This sort of thing:

http://www.modeljunction.info/estore/product_info.php?cPath=25_27_72&products_id=17265

 

Told you my questions were rudimentary! It's strange to be reduced to asking such 'noddy' questions about

a new subject - but the path of discovery is kind of exciting. I'll get onto the subject of how far a particular

owner's loco would stray from heartland territory later though, in typical modeller's fashion, I'm already setting rules

for myself that will hamper me down the line!

 

Blimey, more helpful info in from Chris and NoggintheNog. be back later.

 

Thanks chaps all.

[Glorious NSE]

It's a good question. I guess "a switching loco" is a loco used for switching, but these days that could well mean a main line loco...

 

I think most folk would think of "switchers" being (usually) end cab loco's like that Alco you linked to.

 

If you go back to the early diesel era most switching would likely be done with such end cab switchers - as time went on they have gradually reduced in influence, you can shunt trains with bigger engines, so they are arguably more flexible. All the big railroads still have at least some on their books though, so they are not obsolete by any means.

 

I'd say loco's like that GP38 (although that particular one is an old livery) would be fair game to use on a modern switching layout.

 

Similarly some shortlines/regionals have used lots of switchers MU'd together as their main line power - so don't get too hung up on loco "titles" with regards to what you can & can't do with them.

 

An end cab switcher does give you a slight space advantage in terms of a small layout though.

[NoggintheNog]

I agree with the above, a look around most US forums you will see a common statement, 'there is a prototype for everything' .

 

Basically with such a huge number of operators, engines and situations, whatever you do , at some point it would have hapenned on the full sized ,and somewhere is a photograph to prove it.

 

The end cab switchers do have the advantage of being smaller, but it does go back to what era you are planning to model, you could, following real life examples, use 4-6-0 tender steamers as switchers if you so wished for instance.

[shortliner]

You aren't going to have room to do this on a small 4' switching layout, but this is an example of a switching loco going about its "Yard " work

and this is a small one by one of our members, WSOR 4490 (aka Chris Gilbert)

[Redkiterail]

I like to add model junction is a good shop to deal with as a custom. For prototype research there is Railpictures which is international but has a lot of American railroads. Model Railroader Hobbyist is a free emagazine which you might like to add to the reading list Model Railroad Hobbyist. And if you cant make your mind up on what railroad you can always model one in Chicago were all the major railroads meet.

And now some pictures that you might be interested in.

these are links since there are on railpictures.net and copyrighted

Picture 1

Picture 2

Picture 3

Picture 4

There are all of the same place a quite model able area of railroad with the lift bridge on the backscence

[Glorious NSE]

Wow, nice links - that's next to the Amtrak loco facility right? Never knew there was a "live" industry left there.

 

They illustrate the point about modern railroads switching with main line loco's well also.

 

Here's a couple from the other side of Chicago of Central Illinios, a shortline that uses end cab switchers:

The fleet: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=307989&nseq=13

In action: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=258248&nseq=10

Nice tight structures: http://www.railpictures.net/viewphoto.php?id=292624&nseq=3

 

Plenty of other prototypes worth modelling all over the country though...well worth doing some "absorbing" before tying yourself down.

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Richard,

Again, welcome to the dark side! As a one-time serious practicioner of this art, i thought i'd say hello!

Yes! The lingo can get seriously into your brain - i went back into British after twenty years of nothing but American stuff and i found that i had to re-learn a lot of phrases as i kept on getting strange looks from my Brit modelling friends. Trucks are bogies, not lorries! Cars are wagons, not road vehicles! and so on!

Magazines: "Model Railroader" is probably your easiest option as (i believe) it's printed over here now. "Trains" too for your prototype information. So your local larger newsagent should be able to get them in for you!

As has been said though, MR can get stale after a while but for newcomers should still give you a lot of useful information.

"Railroad Model Craftsman" is definately good but you may have to get it from the likes of SPV or MGSharp.

 

You want a stockist of US outline in northern England? Have a look at "Porter-Wynn" in Clitheroe in Lancashire, it's a smashing little "shop in a house" at: 7 Woone Lane, Clitheroe, Lancashire , BB7 1BG. Tel: 01200 442409. If you go in for a good browse round, you'll probably be offered a cuppa! Do ring before hand as they are only open Thurs, Fri & Sat!!!!! No conection exept as satified customer.

Just over the Pennines is the Wakefield Model Centre at 260 Dewsbury Road, Wakefield, West Yorkshire , WF2 9BY - they can get some US bits in also.

 

Good Model makers: Atlas, Kato, Stewart, Broadway, Proto 2000, Athearn Genesis, Latest Con-Cor & Bowser. All of these should give you a super smooth, well running loco if you're buying new. If fleabaying - avoid older Stewart & P2000 (P2K), Genesis SOUND and Broadway BLUELINE!

Blueline are Broadways DC analogue version of sound locos, okay if you are DC analogue BUT avoid if you go DCC!!!!!!!!!

 

Model Makers to avoid (in your early days!): Model Power, Bachmann, Mehano(technika), Older Con-cor, Rivarossi, AHM - i'm sure there are others that i can't recall right now! However, stick to the good ones above and you can't go wrong!

 

Your Alco S4 http://www.modeljunc...oducts_id=11687 is certainly a great choice for a good switching loco for more or less any period from 1950 onwards. However if you like, you can go back to the late 1930's with this: http://www.modeljunc...oducts_id=12500

If you wanted to base your modelling a bit more up to date, then your GP38 will indeed be more suited but as you get more modern, your boxcars generally tend to get longer!!!

 

Other recommendations from the get go: Always use Kd couplers - preferably genuine Kadees or at least copies with coil springs to close the knuckle.

Try and stick with metal wheelsets throughout all your rail vehicles.

 

Investigate: The NMRA British Region and also going into DCC!

 

Thats about it for now - feel free to pose more questions later and GOOD LUCK with your adventure!

John E.

PS it's still exiting to me after all these years!

 

Blimey: it looks as though plenty of others have beaten me to it!

[dave1905]

Tony, Shortliner Jack & Martyn;

one quick question on Switchers though, what is classed as a switching loco? To my (British) eye, only the short 8 wheel twin bogie

locos such as this, seem like shunting engines:

 

First off I am a US modeler and I am willing to help with information on US roads.

 

In the US the vast majority of people consider a 4 axle low hp engine to be a switcher. the most common ones are EMD SW/NW/MP series, ALCO S series, Baldwin VO/S series. However we are a very versitile bunch and railroads also use lots of other engines as switchers. 4 axle road switchers such as the EMD GP, ALCO RS and Baldwin DR/AS series engines are commonly used as switch engines. In larger yards 6 axle engines can also be used as switchers.

 

For a small layout like you indicated you are interested in a end cab switcher type engine would be good, especially if its an industrial are near a major urban area (SW7, SW1200, SW1000, SW1500, MP15, S1, S2, S4, VO660, VO1000). If you are wanting a switching area in a more rural area or a smaller town or branch, then a 4 axle road switcher would be more appropriate (RS1, RS2, RS3, GP7, GP9, GP18, GP15, GP38-2, GP40-2, AS16).

 

Dave H.

[Redkiterail]

Wow, nice links - that's next to the Amtrak loco facility right? Never knew there was a "live" industry left there.

 

They illustrate the point about modern railroads switching with main line loco's well also.

 

Here's a couple from the other side of Chicago of Central Illinios, a shortline that uses end cab switchers:

The fleet: http://www.railpictu...=307989&nseq=13

In action: http://www.railpictu...=258248&nseq=10

Nice tight structures: http://www.railpictu...d=292624&nseq=3

 

Plenty of other prototypes worth modelling all over the country though...well worth doing some "absorbing" before tying yourself down.

 

I think so one of my favourites, useful site railpictures.net oh don't forget google street view facility it covers most usa cities

 

That industry would make a great freemo module;)

[Glorious NSE]

That industry would make a great freemo module;)

 

LOL - yes it would!

[squeaky]

Firstly welcome to the Darkside

 

As a fairly new convert to the dark side, i'd like to offer my experiences so far.

 

Switchers, i have 2. One Atlas and one Athearn.

 

Athearn SW1000 fitted with Soundtraxx Tsunami DCC decoder, very good detail and a good runner. Atlas MP15 fitted with Soundtraxx Tsunami DCC decoder, very good detail and a better runner than the Athearn.

 

I also have 3 Athearn Genesis diesels, better runners than the Athearn but not as good as the Atlas.

I don't have any experience of Kato as I find them quite expensive.

 

Frieght cars, I have Athearn, Atlas, Intermountain, Exactrailo and Walthers.

They are all good, the Intermoutain and Exactrail are particularly well detailed, the only thing to watch for is some of the older Athearn stuff is less detailed.

 

I have or am in the process of fitting DCC sound to all my locos, all are Soundtraxx, but I have just received a QSI sound chip to go into an Atlas SD35.

 

As for buying the stuff, most of mine I have bought from Ebay from the states as not all the models are easily available in the UK, I have bought from Modeljunction, The Signal Box and MGsharp in the UK, they are all good.

 

For research I use Railpictures.net and Locophotos.com/Railcarphotos.com.

[CraigZ]

I'm a switching junkie. Give me a local to run and I'm one happy camper.

 

For end cab 'proper' switchers, my hall of fame (in no particular order) for good smooth running

Kato NW-2 - but this one is a lot of work to make DCC

Atlas S-1/2/3/4

Athearn MP15AC and *new* SW1000/SW1500 (with Mashima motors!)

Atlas MP15DC

Stewart Baldwin switchers (VO660/VO1000/S8/S12)

Walthers H10-44 Fairbanks Morse switcher

 

Road power - Can't miss with Atlas or Kato. Most Athearn does well out of the box; some require tuning but I've never been stumped by one. I model the Penn Central which ran darn near everything, but for locals that run over the road and service industries along the way my fleet is mostly Atlas GP38s, GP40s,U23Bs, GP7s, Athearn Genesis F units, regular Athearn GP35s, RS-3s, Stewart U25Bs, Proto2000 RS-27s and U30Bs. Freight cars range from ancient blue box Athearn to state of the art Tangent cars.

 

 

 

Run away from Bachmann, Model Power, Tyco. Run away from any freight car where the coupler is mounted to the truck/bogie...you want body mounted couplers.

 

Hope this helps...

[johnb]

Here is another welcome to the Darkside

 

I've a couple of switching layouts and find that the Atlas end cab type are great, whether running on DC or DCC.

I'm often using the Atlas Alco S1,2,3,4 series and their EMD MP15s. Also have a look at the Athearn CF7s, they are in use with a lot of shortlines these days in a wide variety of liveries, they are pretty decent as switchers running on DCC too.

 

As for freight cars well I've a right selection from a variety of manufacturers.

 

Buildings are mainly from Walthers, DPM and I'm currently hacking up one of the old Heljan breweries as a low relief structure.

 

Magazines. I subscribe to Model Railroader, Trains and more recently Model Railroad Craftsman. The Railroader can be a bit simple at times but then the next issue can have some great detail articles. Trains is great for the prototype stuff, both current and some historical. MRC is essentially what we in the UK would term 'finescale' but don't let that put you off, it has some splendid ideas and tips.

For all those three I subscribe direct to the US publisher.

 

For buying I tend to use Model Junction as they are convenient for me and also do a good mail order service. Signal Box have US models as have Gaugemaster. I've bought US models from Signal Box but not Gaugemaster.

At some exhibitions there are traders who do supply US stuff both new and second hand.

 

Have fun and there's always help here if you need it

[alcoRS1]

Tony, Shortliner Jack & Martyn;

 

Thanks very much indeed for the replies. I'll cogitate these and come back with more later when I've a bit more time;

one quick question on Switchers though, what is classed as a switching loco? To my (British) eye, only the short 8 wheel twin bogie

locos such as this, seem like shunting engines:

http://www.modeljunction.info/estore/product_info.php?cPath=25_27_72&products_id=11687

 

Or, is it prototypical to use larger locos for switching duty? This sort of thing:

http://www.modeljunction.info/estore/product_info.php?cPath=25_27_72&products_id=17265

 

Told you my questions were rudimentary! It's strange to be reduced to asking such 'noddy' questions about

a new subject - but the path of discovery is kind of exciting. I'll get onto the subject of how far a particular

owner's loco would stray from heartland territory later though, in typical modeller's fashion, I'm already setting rules

for myself that will hamper me down the line!

 

Blimey, more helpful info in from Chris and NoggintheNog. be back later.

 

Thanks chaps all.

 

to help you work out what you want, you might want to work out what era, and location, this could help you choose what locos to look for.

 

I model 1950-60's SP&S (Spokane Portland and Seattle). There are many to chose from. I like Alco's, early days of switching There was lots of Alcos, Fairbanks Morris, Baldwins, and EMD's

 

The S4 switcher you linked to is a great model.

 

you question about loco straying from the heartland, if you use a road switcher (alco RS-1, RS-2, RS-3, RS-11 etc, EMD GP7, GP9) these would work yards, as well as local delivery and branch work. Today, the EMD GP38, GP35, GP15-1, seem to do most of this, my local yard seems to use GP 38-2 for most yard and local runs. Atlas has just released this month the Genset locos, which has a new approach to cutting emission (up to 3 700hp engines).

 

I like the idea of a west coast LA, switching industrial switching with UPY GP15-1 and a Genset There are some good youtube videos, that show local runs . You could also though Pacific Labour lines in the mix. I could images and good graffiti GP15-1. Local industries can be from tank cars, hoppers (bulk plastics, different powered compounds, grains), gondolas, center beam wood, wood chips, box cars, basically ever thing.

 

Here is a little list to help you work out what you may want to model

 

1) Era:

2) Location:

3) Industries

4) Railroad companies that operate in the area

5) rolling stocked used in that era and companies most likely to see.

 

if you have any questions do not hesitate to ask there is a lot of knowledge, here that could help you figure out what you want to do.

[298]

Some Bachmann Spectrum locos may be worth considering, especially the later 44t and 70t switchers with the centrally mounted motor and a good aftermarket decoder, although the earlier ones with 2 power bogies can be just as good. You can't really have a small fleet of switchers without one of their models appearing.

 

Athearn can be a bit of a misnomer, the Genesis and Ready to Roll models are of a high standard, but the seemingly ever popular "blue Box" kits can vary and quite a few of the liveries aren't accurate for the model used.

 

It is still possible to "freelance" a US layout with locos and stock, but if the same was done with UK stock it'd put you in the trainset league. However, there are pointers out there, such as choosing a geographical location and keeping the majority of stock to roads from that area. US cars are lettered with a new and/or repaint date so you know if an intended purchase will fit your timescale, and roofwalks were banned from new cars from 1966 and had to be removed from existing ones by 1977 (ish).

[doctor quinn]

I'll add my vote for Atlas, I have an S2 and an S4 that both run superbly, I found when fitting Kadees that the commonly fitted number 5 couplers came out a little low so that the trip pins fouled on points. The solution was to fit number 27 couplers with an under set shank that brings the knuckle up a little.

 

Nick

[F-UnitMad]

I dunno; this fad for modelling US-outline by UK modellers... d'you reckon it'll ever catch on..??? :icon_wow: :icon_lol: :icon_razz:

 

Just in case Colossus is wondering where this term "The Dark Side" comes from, I think it stems from 20-odd years ago, when there was such a difference between US and UK models (alluded to in the first reply by GloriousNSE )... smooth-running, non-stalling locos with flywheels and all-axle drive, the 'hands-off' Kadee couplers (I still see some "UK Only" modellers wonder wide-eyed over them at shows! ) and other related aspects of US-outline modelling all contrasted so much with the 'standard' UK R-T-R scene that it seemed like some kind of witchcraft, or dark art... hence the Dark Side... :icon_thumbsup2:

 

Welcome to the club, Colossus; Enjoy! :icon_wave:

[Northpoint]

and this is a small one by one of our members, WSOR 4490 (aka Chris Gilbert)

 

Hi Richard

 

Again, welcome to the dark side.

 

The CP loco in Chris's video is mine and I think it reflects what's already been said about Atlas locos and the sound quality. (The layout will be at Crewe on Sunday 24th January if anybody's interested - http://www.cheshirer...exhibition.htm)

 

Once again I will echo the comments about both Model Junction and LSWR models - both good reputable experienced US suppliers.

 

Having been involved with US modelling for over 20 years, and despite temptations from British and Continental products, I always return to the US.

 

Good luck with your project - keep us posted.

[BR60103]

Richard:

I'm on the other side (the Bright side?) of North Americans modelling British. Our club does include Brits that haven't bothered to look at a local train since they left home.

 

Anyway, the end cab units were built to be switchers. The GP series are dropped from mainline to local/yard status as they age (the gp38 is around 40 years old). A lot of them get rebuilt to yard units at this age, and a popular configuration (around here) is mother and slug -- one loco reduced to a weighted frame with motored taking its power from an adjacent intact loco. At yard speeds the "mother" produces more power than its own motors can consume so they add on an extra 4 axles.

 

You'll probably find that quality varies with price -- under $30 is almost certainly inadequate.