CraigZ Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 For those people who really like variety in their rolling stock...... The SIT (storage in transit) yard at Spring, Texas, about 20 miles N of Houston, about 1000 cars of plastic pellets, a warehouse on wheels. It would cost more than the GDP of Upper Volta to pay for models of all those Centerflows. Yow! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Easy to model, I think they come in a tube, you just squeeze out how many you want. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 oooh look, a cuckoo in the nest.....3rd row, 3rd from right? full of plastic pellets, eh? bet they're waiting for the model railroad market to take an upturn......expecting us to rush out and buy hundreds of centreflows? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Just imagine the Dispatcher on the radio to the switcher's crew... "Yeah, you'll find which car we need easy enough, it's a big grey covered hopper..." Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Wow, i've never seen so many "grafitti-free" hopper cars. At the Leamington Show this weekend, my layout has been running a protoypical mix of Reefers- 100% PFE... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colossus Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 A few more questions as i pursue my Dark Side learning curve - and what an enjoyable journey it's proving! I've been enjoying lots of aeriel and street level exploration of the Kansas 'West Bottoms' area. Thanks immensely to, I think it was Dave1905 for introducing me to these fascinating nether regions of Kansas. Also, a big one to GloriousNSE (Martyn) who facilitated my roaming of these mean streets with his link to 'Bing'. Although I plan to keep any layout location neutral (I don't have the time to get caught up in modelling a particular area), the buildings of Kansas West Bottoms and their layout in relation to each other provide just the sort of setting I have in mind for my switching&boxcar fetish. Expect me to borrow from these heavily! All the help I've had in sorting out my US locos - switchers and otherwise - has resulted in a terrific crash course of loco identification. I'm still possibly leaning towards a 1970s to 80s feel but I already know that for interesting "American looking' switchers and cars in a gritty urban setting, I could easily set in in 2010. As i said earlier, if I get too caught up in "correctness", I'll never end up finishing anything so the broad suggestion from some quarters that in N American railroads 1960-2010, "anything goes" (with some caveats), is a lot of fun. A few random questions on locos and stock; Cabooses. What's going on there? They all look like they belong back with Casey Jones! Can someone point me to a shot or two of cabooses that ran in the 1970s to the present day? If they are as quaint and charming as my wide-eyed searching suggests, that's very cool indeed. That said, were they made redundant by fully fitted trains as time went on? They add a lot of character to the scene to the fresher eye. Be nice to know a bit more about them. Next, a little more on model losos. I??™ll probably be forced to use smaller switching units, but I like the style of the EMD GP7s??“ do any of the better manufacturers ??“ an Atlas, Athearn or a Kato - makes these in the HO scale? Plenty of you chaps mention you run Atlas GP 7s ??“ are they currently unavailable? They seem a bit elusive currently at British stockists. Finally, a bit more on switchers. Other than GP7s, what other examples of older design Road Switchers might have been found on humble yard work in the 70s 80s or 90s? How about the Alco RS-3? Quite a beast. How late were these to be found switching the yards? Thanks Darksiders. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CraigZ Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 A few more questions as i pursue my Dark Side learning curve - and what an enjoyable journey it's proving! I've been enjoying lots of aeriel and street level exploration of the Kansas 'West Bottoms' area. Thanks immensely to, I think it was Dave1905 for introducing me to these fascinating nether regions of Kansas. Also, a big one to GloriousNSE (Martyn) who facilitated my roaming of these mean streets with his link to 'Bing'. Although I plan to keep any layout location neutral (I don't have the time to get caught up in modelling a particular area), the buildings of Kansas West Bottoms and their layout in relation to each other provide just the sort of setting I have in mind for my switching&boxcar fetish. Expect me to borrow from these heavily! All the help I've had in sorting out my US locos - switchers and otherwise - has resulted in a terrific crash course of loco identification. I'm still possibly leaning towards a 1970s to 80s feel but I already know that for interesting "American looking' switchers and cars in a gritty urban setting, I could easily set in in 2010. As i said earlier, if I get too caught up in "correctness", I'll never end up finishing anything so the broad suggestion from some quarters that in N American railroads 1960-2010, "anything goes" (with some caveats), is a lot of fun. A few random questions on locos and stock; Cabooses. What's going on there? They all look like they belong back with Casey Jones! Can someone point me to a shot or two of cabooses that ran in the 1970s to the present day? If they are as quaint and charming as my wide-eyed searching suggests, that's very cool indeed. That said, were they made redundant by fully fitted trains as time went on? They add a lot of character to the scene to the fresher eye. Be nice to know a bit more about them. Next, a little more on model losos. I?????ll probably be forced to use smaller switching units, but I like the style of the EMD GP7s????? do any of the better manufacturers ????? an Atlas, Athearn or a Kato - makes these in the HO scale? Plenty of you chaps mention you run Atlas GP 7s ????? are they currently unavailable? They seem a bit elusive currently at British stockists. Finally, a bit more on switchers. Other than GP7s, what other examples of older design Road Switchers might have been found on humble yard work in the 70s 80s or 90s? How about the Alco RS-3? Quite a beast. How late were these to be found switching the yards? Thanks Darksiders. Cabooses/cabeese: American trains have been fully fitted with air brakes for a century; the cab was there to provide a place for the rear end crew to ride and watch for failed bearings or dragging equipment. With automatic defect/hotbox/dragging equipment detectors, proper roller bearings on everything and advances in telemetry, they've been replaced by EOT (end of train) devices that tie into the air line and send signals to the head end with brake line pressure info and motion info - reember there's a lot of slack in a 6,000 foot long train. Very little present day caboose usage. Seen here and there in use as 'shoving platforms' for long backing moves but no longer required on main line trains. Even the locals don't get 'em nowadays. And they look old because, well, most of them are old Example is this car: http://rr-fallenflags.org/scl/scl-c0608as.jpg . Built in the 1940s as 40' box cars and converted by the Atlantic Coast Line then Seaboard Coast Line into the M5 class of caboose like this one. And this guy http://rr-fallenflags.org/pc/pc18598ary.jpg was built pretty new, around 1970. No cupola on top, no bay windows on the side essentially scream "transfer caboose" used on runs from one road's yard to another road's yard, or in terminal service. And there were almost no standard cabeese...each road had its idea of what a caboose should be. International Car made "standard" designs but even then from road to road details varied. Rely on photos and advice from others to get accurate models if that's important to you. GP7s - Atlas has made them for years. Great runners. Can't go wrong with one. They're not 'available' right now as the tooling has been damaged and may or may not be repaired. Prowl ebay for one. Proto's made them, makes runs every so often. Both are good runners...the Proto can have better detailing. Beware of split axle gears on the older Proto Geeps (7/9/18/20/30). Also consider an Atlas GP38 or GP38-2. RS-3 - very few left in service on Class One railroads by the mid 1970s. Pick your prototype and you can do it. All gone by 1990 from Class One roads. They were hunted by railfans in the 1980s where they essentially only prowled shortlines. The last Class One with a decent population of any sort of Alco was Conrail and they were cleaned out by 1981. Hope this helps... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 This is as close to a "standard" caboose as you're likely to come, I think this one was the last caboose bought by MEC: Before spending money on that sort of stuff, MEC's frugality came up with this: This one is a fairly old caboose, its life was extended by nailing hardboard over the original siding. It did have a steel underframe though, so helpers could couple to it and shove. Otherwise the helper engine would have to be coupled to the train ahead of the caboose. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 If you want a caboose, or van as we call them here in Canada you could do much worse than this one; http://rapidotrains.com/freight1.html Still used in some service operations by CP and also by the Soo line back when they were first built and obviously by the TH&B. One in current use is owned by my local shortline, the Ontario Southland, as you can see they spared no expense on the re-paint As for switchers don't overlook the Alco S2 or S4 models by Atlas. Very smooth runners and oozing character. The same goes for the SW 9 models done by Proto. For more pictures of vans have a look here; http://www.cnrphotos.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=18779 and for switchers (among other things) try here; http://www.cnrphotos.com/gallery2/main.php?g2_itemId=6984 Cheers, David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium BR60103 Posted January 25, 2010 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 25, 2010 To add to CraigZ's post: When boxcars became much higher than cabooses, pushed to the limit of the loading gauge, the cupola was no longer useful for looking over the train. So the railroads put lookouts on the side. There were 2 major variations: the extended cupola (shown in a couple of photos) and the bay window, set down at first storey level. The most modern looking traditional caboose may be Pennsylvania's N5c. Lionel made a model of this in 1953, and Bowser has one in HO (in 50 or so different paint jobs/lettering variants). There is a similar caboose that was made by Mantua/Tyco that I discovered a few years ago had a prototype. A lot of cabooses were rebuilt from boxcars -- probably popular when every time some feature (archbar trucks, brake systems) was banned from interchange. There is a design called the NorthEastern caboose but I don't know how standard or widespread it was. I think most railroads built or rebuilt their own. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 As Craig says, nowadays the caboose is only seen on some shortlines, and most often on a branch with no runround available. It would frequently be a transfer caboose, a basic "doghouse" on a flatcar, somewhere for the switchmen to keep out of the weather - on a branch that is essentially a "push in, pull out" operation that crosses roads, where the caboose and hand held radios provide the engineer in the loc,o which is at the back of the train, with info. The switch men may be required to "Flag" crossings or protect them with a lit fusee (pyrotechnic flare) and to operate switches into the push-in sidings. The EOT is also known as a FRED - Flashing Rear End Device. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Some caboose modelling here http://www.the-gauge.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=2305 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 A few random questions on locos and stock; Cabooses. What's going on there? They all look like they belong back with Casey Jones! Can someone point me to a shot or two of cabooses that ran in the 1970s to the present day? If they are as quaint and charming as my wide-eyed searching suggests, that's very cool indeed. That said, were they made redundant by fully fitted trains as time went on? They add a lot of character to the scene to the fresher eye. Be nice to know a bit more about them. Just in rough era terms they would be found on most trains into the early 1980s - circa 1980 most trains would have one, circa 1985 most don't have one. Reducing crew sizes after de-regulation and new technology pushed the change. So - i'd suggest in your late 70s/early 80s mode you would have a caboose - any later than that don't bother unless you have a specific reason to have one (for example we use a couple of cabooses as "shoving platforms" on RS Tower in modern mode as we have a long shove from a yard along a main line to serve a couple of the industries on the front.) Another reason that they survived later in certain locations was a "dark" (no lineside signals) main line with relatively decent traffic, a caboose was useful in this scenario as when the train got put into a passing siding it meant there was a guy at the back of the train who could put the switch back without then having to wait for him to walk a mile back to the locomotives! There were a couple of locations on the BN where this kind of operation lasted into the 90s. As already said these were highly personal things, different railroads having different styles they favoured and different ways of developing their fleets. There were some "modern" standard-ish designs being built in the 70s (for example the bay window caboose which Walthers does and the "wide vision" cupola one that Atlas does) - but keep in mind that the real things were built to order so stuff like window locations (defined by the interior layout) and cupola heights varied from order to order and railroad to railroad, so whilst the styles may be standard-ish, in terms of detail they were far from it. There was a requirement at some point (late 70s?) for cabooses to have bulletproof glass fitted - different railroads interpreted that instruction in different ways, most seem to have decided to weld up as many windows as possible - this adds to the variations out there! Plenty of railroads were still running "steam era" cars into the early 80s as well and they were even more varied in style - some even to the extent that they were home-built so only really suitable for one railroad! And with cabooses not being required to interchange (mostly, although run-throughs did happen) some really anchient stuff was still kicking about on branch lines and local trains in the 70s. It really is a case of if you're modelling an era where you need a caboose then you need to pick the railroad first & then look for suitable ones to model. There are many plastic RTR models out there of more common types, but if you end up picking a prototype with a wierd caboose fleet the chances are it's covered by a resin kit these days so no problem. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrian Wintle Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 As Craig says, nowadays the caboose is only seen on some shortlines, and most often on a branch with no runround available. It would frequently be a transfer caboose, a basic "doghouse" on a flatcar, somewhere for the switchmen to keep out of the weather - on a branch that is essentially a "push in, pull out" operation that crosses roads, where the caboose and hand held radios provide the engineer in the loc,o which is at the back of the train, with info. The switch men may be required to "Flag" crossings or protect them with a lit fusee (pyrotechnic flare) and to operate switches into the push-in sidings. The EOT is also known as a FRED - Flashing Rear End Device. I've occasionally seen a caboose on a class 1 (CN), being used as a shoving platform on local freights. Usually they have all the windows boarded up - presumably the interior either isn't used, or is only used to get out of the weather. Adrian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Having said that - here is a brand new (8 Jan 2010) shortline that has a newly painted caboose(and loco). It is operated by the Ballard Terminal and the Meeker Southern crews in the Seattle area http://www.railroadf...ead.php?t=31112 who have taken over the Woodinville sub from BNSF. Note the Caboose has been fitted with Horns and ditchlights for running caboose first. Photos on pages 4 and 6 also here http://www.trainorde...sion/read.php?1,2106143 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 "Custom stuff" is common when it's in use as a shoving platform, i've seen some with headlights & ditchlights fitted as well! Here's a couple of modern examples from a class 1 - both these are from the Illinois Central, merged into CN circa 1999... This is a good example of "not quite standard" - at first glance just another wide vision, but these were actually home-built by Illinois Central and feature bigger than usual end platforms - this one has had a full Canadian National repaint - CN are good at budget stuff, no fancy horns or lights here, just a couple of red flags! http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/rsPicture.aspx?id=64689 Extreme budget shoving platform: http://www.rrpicturearchives.net/showPicture.aspx?id=775433 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
highpeak Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 To add to CraigZ's post: When boxcars became much higher than cabooses, pushed to the limit of the loading gauge, the cupola was no longer useful for looking over the train. So the railroads put lookouts on the side. There were 2 major variations: the extended cupola (shown in a couple of photos) and the bay window, set down at first storey level. The most modern looking traditional caboose may be Pennsylvania's N5c. Lionel made a model of this in 1953, and Bowser has one in HO (in 50 or so different paint jobs/lettering variants). There is a similar caboose that was made by Mantua/Tyco that I discovered a few years ago had a prototype. A lot of cabooses were rebuilt from boxcars -- probably popular when every time some feature (archbar trucks, brake systems) was banned from interchange. There is a design called the NorthEastern caboose but I don't know how standard or widespread it was. I think most railroads built or rebuilt their own. There's an interesting piece on the "northeastern" caboose (a railfan rather than railroad term) at http://www.railroad.net/articles/railfanning/northeastcabooses/index.php Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Some slightly less "spartan" transfer cabeese than Martins specemin http://images.google.com/images?q=transfer+caboose&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-US&oe=utf8&rlz=1I7GPEA_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=KsVdS92rDZDQjAfz64WbAg&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CB8QsAQwAw Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Grant 4472 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 Hello Colossus and welcome to American downtown modelling Sorry to arrive a bit late but I've been having bother accessing RMWeb Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted January 26, 2010 Share Posted January 26, 2010 A few random questions on locos and stock; Cabooses. What's going on there? They all look like they belong back with Casey Jones! Can someone point me to a shot or two of cabooses that ran in the 1970s to the present day? If they are as quaint and charming as my wide-eyed searching suggests, that's very cool indeed. That said, were they made redundant by fully fitted trains as time went on? They add a lot of character to the scene to the fresher eye. Be nice to know a bit more about them. In the 1980's the technology became available to replace a caboose with a telemetry device. It would radio the air pressure and the movement information to the engines. By then the cars had gotten tall enough and wide enough that a crew couldn't see more than 20-30 cars in front of them, which on a 120 car train was not a big advantage. Add that more injuries occured on cabooses from slack running in and out and the railroads decided that cabooses on main line trains had to go. In industrial ares the trains didn't use a caboose in many cases, typically only if they ahd to make a lot of shoving moves. Cabooses remained on those jobs where the train did a lot of shoving for distances over a mile, especially over multiple grade crossings. The last cabooses were made in the late 1970's and early 1980's, so by today most cabooses are pretty old. New cabooses are more "shoving platforms" that have a small enclosure. Finally, a bit more on switchers. Other than GP7s, what other examples of older design Road Switchers might have been found on humble yard work in the 70s 80s or 90s? How about the Alco RS-3? Quite a beast. How late were these to be found switching the yards? GP15, GP9, GP30 seemed to be the longest living. RS3's survived on some shortlines, but they were a minority builder and had a reputation for mechanical problems (deserved or not) so tended to leave most rosters in the 1970's and 1980's. Other "switchers" I've seen are SD7/SD9/SD18. SD35, SD38/SD38-2, SD40-2. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colossus Posted January 26, 2010 Author Share Posted January 26, 2010 Hello Colossus and welcome to American downtown modelling Sorry to arrive a bit late but I've been having bother accessing RMWeb Jon Thanks Jon - yes I've been well and truly bitten! And thanks to all for the recent replies on Cabooses and other matters. Brilliantly thoughtful as always. Back soon. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Grant 4472 Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Thanks Jon - yes I've been well and truly bitten! Here's a couple of my videos to get the creative juices flowing. Although theyre of modern-ish diesels, the layout usually runs in 1930s steam-era mode. The diesels are for another layout, based in 1990s Alabama. NS GP38-2 CSX MP15-AC Where abouts do you live Collossus? I have 3 exhibitions coming up this year and several next year, so you might get to operate sometime. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redkiterail Posted January 29, 2010 Share Posted January 29, 2010 Some cabooses/ Shoving Platforms are used to make locomotives remoted raido controled Finger lakes railway in NY state uses a ex conrail shove platform to do this. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DIFFLOCK Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 A bit late to this thread, but welcome Colossus! I too will add praise as a satisfied customer of Porter-Wynn in Clitheroe (I'm local to them, living in Chipping). What drew me to US HO gauge initially was the cheapness - I wanted something totally different and out of character to our family's "train set" (mounted on a 7x4' board against the dining room wall, it will be a british outline layout..honest), and a lowly Bachmann GP50 in SOUTHERN livery arrived via ebay. I found the black/grey livery with gold lettering pleasing to my eye and it looked purposefully brutal in a different way to british locos. I was pleasantly surprised by its weight and smooth running ability, although I believe that the model is hardly accurate to the prototype... never mind - I bought another one so's I could double head them I then endeavoured to find out more about the RR itself: It became Norfolk Southern. I set about obtaining more stock from that RR (Hattons came in useful as they had a fair amount of Southern liveried freight). Then came the realisation that freight stock can be from almost anywhere, travelling to almost anywhere else. I like this modern image idea - I can buy some wagons & boxcars that I like, reasonably safe in the knowledge that yes, almost, they can go behind my pair of Athearn dash 9's http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GE_Dash_9-40CW. As for modern image US passenger trains, well, that's AMTRAK since the 70s isn't it? I'm a novice at the US HO scene, so my generalisations might be too general, but have fun all the same! Diff. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tebee Posted February 14, 2010 Share Posted February 14, 2010 I too, I'm joining this thread rather late, I can date my transfer to the dark side to an article in Railway Modeller for ( I think) September 1969 on John Allen's Gorre & Daphetid Rail Road. I used to do steam era stuff , but, I too got converted by just how well US diesels run. I can Third the recommendation for Porter Wynn's, though you may need a native guide to find it the first time ! They are very helpful, only do US stuff and if they can't answer your questions there's normally another customer who can ! One thing I like about the US scene is there always seems to be people who want to help you. I would thoroughly recommend finding your local NMRA or independent US group, there seems to be one in most parts of the country now. You imply you are from the north, there used to be a very friendly non-NMRA group that used to met bi-monthly in north Yorkshire near Rippon, though I've not been in the UK for a few years so I don't know if they are still going. The Calder Northern group of the NMRA used to meet in south Manchester but have now moved down to Crewe. There is a list on the NMRA(BR) website at http://www.nmrabr.org.uk/nmra-british-region-active-groups/active-groups-map but this does not include the independent groups. Even if the meets are some distance from you the can be worth going to, often a number of people will share a car to go to the more distant ones. There was a group of about 6 of us in the Southport area and we used to take it in turns to drive to meets , often over 100 miles away. Besides meeting people of a like mind who can help you, there are often lots of second hand bargains to be had ! Anyway, welcome to the club ! Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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