The Waverley Route revisited!

[bigwordsmith]

Ah Gilbert, I was reading one of the fine books you sent me and saw a picture of 62440 and thought 'How on earth am I ever going to get away with saying "i've always wanted a Wandering Willie" in my train loft on RM Web?" and now you've given me the profit solution!

 

The work is still very much in progress, but I am thinking laterally!

 

ATB

 

Peter

[bigwordsmith]

Gilbert

Do you have any recommendations for someone who could build me one?

Tx

Peter

[great northern]

Gilbert

Do you have any recommendations for someone who could build me one?

Tx

Peter

PM sent Peter.

[bigwordsmith]

So another hiatus on the railway I'm afraid  - I've just come out hospital having had a bionic kneecap fitted so won't be up the loft for a few weeks - procedure all went well now have much time on hands to get to the bottom of plans!

 

ATB 

 

Peter

[AGR Model Store]

Hope you have speedy recovery, I do enjoy your updates.

[bigwordsmith]

Thanks Anthony 

[Waverley West]

Wishing you a very speedy recovery too, Peter. Make the most of that time!

 

All the best,

Dave

[bigwordsmith]

Right,

 

Hope you all had a Happy Christmas and now that the turkey has been digested are ready to put your planning caps back on!

 

After much soul searching and some deep consideration and introspection - all it must be said as a direct result of post-operative analgesics and opiates, I've got my brain back into gear and come up with the latest plan that gives me...

 

A big station that can comfortably depict the East End of Waverley

A scenic run that can show off the Waverley Route

The preservation of Waverley Shed and

Provision of 3 carriage sidings for sleepers/ expresses

A country station to send stoppers and terminating trains as well as goods to /from

Ability to control all main controls from one area

Ability to add up to three more operators

Lots of scenic potential

Ability to spend a happy while watching a succession of long trains go by

Much shunting potential

up to 20 trains on the layout at one time with no obstruction of running roads

Cassette loading area for stock swaps

Room for workbench

 

And after such a fanfare....

 

 

Here it is!

 

 

Happy new Year to you all!

[Donington Road]

 

Waverley loft 33.jpg

 

Here it is!

 

 

Just a thought, adding a double track avoiding loop would allow two layouts in one without fouling the cross overs at the junction

 

[bigwordsmith]

Thanks for that Donington Road, Funnily enough my original plan did precisely that, however I realised that as I'm planning to run 8 bogies as a regular load, the gradient can't be more than 1/100, and there wouldn't be enough distance needed to get below the storage lines unless the grade is around 1/60 - several folks (self included) have commented that the current generation Pacifics struggle to haul their own shadow around the track, so easiness gradients are required.

 

that said, when I woke up this morning I started to wonder if I'm missing a trick with the way I've organised the storage loops/fiddle yard - ideally they should be able to capture all trains in both directions so I could do a run to/from Galashiels or Waverley without the train covering the same bit of track twice.

 

No doubt it will get tweaked today!

 

ATB

 

Peter

['CHARD]

Peter, I think you're right to optimise on load eight for train accommodation.  It is very hard to selectively compress The Waverley and the Pullman (sleeper) even down to seven bogies, particularly as you move back pre-'63 and deeper into the 'fifties.  As late as summer '68 there were still nine-coach trains about, not counting even longer diverted trains off East and West Coast.  

 

As an essential counterpart, the signature WR fitted freights require at least this sort of length to do them justice.  If you plan to run those occasional block trains which lie on record, then you can't shy away from building a layout to reflect true main line operations and flows.  All this talk of the route being a secondary main line goes only so far.

 

The (double-headed) car trains are an even bigger problem, but we don't talk about these because the sheer cost of populating the carflats probably keeps them sensibly down to nine short underframes.

 

I haven't studied your plan in detail, but I have been so impressed by your previous stuff I'll give it a closer look.  I have no fear that you'll capture that sparse NB essence.....

 

 

EDIT:  I should add at this point that due to domestic changes afoot, I'm planning Teviotbank II, and there are various essential factors buzzing in my head.  My approach to storage tracks is that I will only run specials, diversions, occasional freights etc 'through' the layout, and then store 'off-piste' in cassettes.  The stuff that must remain in the system includes the 2M52-2S52 captive coaching stock with associated tail traffic, the four full length expresses (or winter T/T portions), and four full length fitted freights.  Even that seemingly small inventory is going to take some siding space.

Edited December 31, 2014 by 'CHARD

[bigwordsmith]

Thanks Chard

 

Indeed that is the challenge - i have several Waverley Route books and the diversity of traffic is huge.

 

I've not definitively decided on period yet, other than BR green, and probably no later than 1965, but even with those constraints, I have pix in the books of steam hauled fitted and loose freights, 5 carriages plus four vans, 10 coach ECS hauled by a 9F,  diverted WCML and ECML expresses with motive power ranging from A4/3/2/1 to Duchess and Royal Scots, SRPS tours with the Dean Goods and other ancient traction, not to mention just about every diesel type that ever worked n that era except the Western

 

However as I have a rather nice Heljan one, I suspect there will be at leas one 'Plymouth Argyll vs Hibernians' Football special in the mix! I'm even planning to give DP2 a run over the line!

 

Gilbert ( Great Northern) and I have had many discussions around cassette systems, which is why I've built in the ability to drop a 4' cassette into the board to butt onto the loco headshunt. However storing that lot will be interesting - because I'm using old desks as a sub-base I should be able to line them up where I have recesses for windows, but this is yet another detail that needs to be considered before the chainsaw comes out!

 

As for the car carrier, the idea of hanging a Black Five off the front of a grimy A4 with a dozen flats carrying Morris vans or Ford cars  is very attractive. Apparently the stock used for that was converted from old coaches - I suspect they basically de-bodied them and added some bracing, and I happen to have a whole bunch of 57' ex LMS Hornby Staniers kicking around which I had planned to repaint, but which could indeed find themselves pressed into service. The problem will be that three ford Anglias per wagon at a tenner each would cots >£300 for the load!

 

I suspect much scouring at toy fairs and visits to  the-site -that-isn't-very-good-at-refunds will ensue!

Edited December 31, 2014 by bigwordsmith

['CHARD]

You're right on the money with the expense attached to the car trains.  Ford Corsairs are the missing link for me, and there's no way I'm using hens'-teeth Minix models as a basis!  Nearest I've got was a job lot of Anglia vans at a pound apiece, but I've no evidence these were ever worked over the route.  Argh....

 

There are a few threads and the odd blog covering carflat conversions, so when the time is right we can mull over those.  It's well-trodden territory.

 

I'm struggling keeping to my '68 window, mainly because the lure of DeathSteam is so strong and I have some beautiful examples of that breed, hand-crafted by more intuitive modellers than I.  

 

However, what I can do even as early as October '66, is to eliminate wayside wagonload traffic.  Hence if I recreate the likes of Stow, Steele Road, Gorebrig or Belses, I can take out the trailing crossover, link to yard and the public sidings in any case.  What I wish to retain are the class eight goods and intensive parcels workings though - hence the attraction of a station and yard combining the gravitas of Hawick, Gala or St Boswells, without slavishly following any in particular.

 

As a main station scenic break (like Waverley West), I have in mind a Citadel-based solution.

[great northern]

Sorry Peter, but I think you are back to trying to cram too much in, so you have gradients, hidden points, and several areas you will find very hard to get at because you are going to be reaching across quite a distance to reach them. I think also that you would find it far too complex for one man operation.

 

Chard used a very apposite word a couple of posts back.....sparse. That is what most of the Waverley route was, and unfortunately this isn't. Also, if you want to be able to portray all the trains that used the places you are including, you make a real rod for your back by having ECML trains running into the East end of Waverley. You would need the Elizabethan, the Flying Scotsman, the Heart of Midlothian.... etc etc. And I still say that loco shed would very rarely get operated, or not properly anyway.

 

Your last set of plans, with just the two Waverley route stations were, for me anyway, much more promising, and would allow you to capture the wild and rugged nature of the line. Actually, with all that length available, you could have a gradient, but not to pass above or below other lines, just to show the characteristics of the route. Then you could make it relatively gentle, so that your steam locos could cope with it.

 

Gilbert (aka Jonah).

[bigwordsmith]

@Chard So all we need now is someone to pop up with a Glasgow Queen St. layout, and we're almost offering a full circle!

 

@Gilbert  I know what you're saying, but deep down I want to be able to host all the stock I've been building up over the years. 

 

Although this looks hugely complicated, in fact it isn't anything like as complex as it seems, let me explain...

 

The maximum baseboard depth is 90cm - easily reachable, for all parts

 

All hidden lines will be either underneath lift-off polystyrene scenery or concealed in deep cuttings - also with removable scenery, and there is actually only one double crossover under the scenery - my past experience os that this is sustainable. I used the same approach a lot on Abbotsmead, and I spend a lot of time getting alignments and banking right so that an express can fly through a double junction before any scenery goes above. Worst case I can just lift off the scenery and not disturb any running.

 

The operation can be as complex or simple as I feel because by siting the shed controls underneath is, as they currently are, I can choose to send a loco off to shed and then spend some time playing over there shunting or sending locos back to the station. 

 

IF I want to run a busier line, then I can hand over shed  and carriage siding operations to another operator on that side. Similarly Galashiels will have a dual control ability to it can shunt separately or have the main lines thrown over to control from Waverley so that I don't need to leave my seat.

 

Although th design looks busy, if you cover over the fiddle year and conceal lines with scenery, it suddenly looks a lot more, as Chard said, 'Sparse' - the idea is that I have a town side which is partly Galashiels ( at low Level), and partly Waverley. The South West side gives me scope for some dirty smoky shed area, complete with 'closes' for a back drop, then you go from that into the lowland hills - there's a 20' run there before you arrive at Galashiels which I think will look quite stunning, especially as I have a higher waistline to the roof at that end due to a barn hip on the front of the loft.

 

IF you lose all the hidden track from view, this is what you get...

 

As you can see it's a lot less crowded by using hidden scenery - I'm also very confident that by using polystyrene, which I did very effectively on the shed layout, I can get clear access to all the hidden bits for cleaning maintenance and so on.

 

AS you know I've thought a lot about the project, and have come to the conclusion that I want to be able to do a lot more than just send trains round the circle - I enjoy shunting and tinkering and this gives me the best of all worlds. 

 

probably because I'm not trying to replicate a timetable I can give myself more freedom to 'play trains' so having a layout that gives the scope for all kinds is probably the best outcome . It will of course also take ages to build!

[bigwordsmith]

Just came across this fascinating piece copied from trains Illustrated on one of the other threads - it clearly specifies how the early car carriers were made, and has a great pic, so you can guess what's going to happen to those old Hornby 57'Staniers that I can't be bothered to repaint!

 

Interesting notes also about how the formations included a pair of GUVs at each end in steam days, although none of the pics in my books show this, despite a black five and an A4 chucking out more smuts than an angry volcano! 

 

 

And they wonder why the British car industry had such a lousy reputation for quality

[bigwordsmith]

So after getting bored out of one's tree due to my inability to do a lot, my beloved suggested I should bury  myself in some modelling, and I duly started to tidy up the loft as well as think about the car carrier idea

 

As posted earlier I found a pic pf the car carriers that plied between Luton and Edinburgh in the early 1960's...

 

And after parting the chassis from one of those naff old Hornby 57' Staniers I found some Ratio Fencing and sheets of plasticard, and after a couple of hours chopping and sticking came up with this...

 

 

OK so it's probably got too many verticals, and it needs painting as well as detailing, but all up it will work out at around £ 15.00 plus some time to produce what is a very unusual model

 

TBH I doubt if many people will even spot the excess railings as there only seem to be about 4 pics of these trains in existence!

 

Those 1980's Staniers are really low grade models - especially when you read Tony Wright's review of the new Bachmann portholes, so trying to detail up old Hirnby ones just ins't worth the effort.

 

I'll post more pics once I've painted and details it, hopefully with better lighting!

 

Heigh Ho

 

Peter

Edited January 11, 2015 by bigwordsmith

[Mallard60022]

Yea.....the wonderful world of 'not being able to do very much'. I know it so well..

Smithy, I like you philosophy and you well know how good I am at finding stuff that i want to represent. Can't match your car flats, however I can will be able to justify some Conflats with Invacar load.

All the best mate.

Quackers.

[bigwordsmith]

AH Mr. Duck - are you forgetting the first go that BR ( WR) had at running car carrying trains down to Penzance?

 

My parents did the hellish journey down to that area by car twice for our annual holiday and on the third occasion decided to give the train a try so were duly issued with tickets to head off to the Car terminal at .... Kensington Olympia

 

My father told me at the time he was so surprised to see a West Country at the head of the eventual formation, especially as it pointed South. He wanted to take me up front to see it, but mother refused as she was concerned we'd miss the departure.

 

Anyway I vaguely recall Dad pointing out the gantry at Clapham Junction as we settled into the restaurant car for our steady overnight journey, which I believe took the old LSWR line to Exeter where the WR took over.

Either way I remember departing behind a big green steam engine and waking up the next day with a long Maroon Western something at the sharp end.

 

Over to you....

 

Peter

[Mallard60022]

Ooh that's interesting. I only knew about the Surbiton to Okehampton train . What date was this then Peter (PM if you wish that too be private  )

I wonder if after 1963 the WR 'took over' the above service vehicles (Green GUVs) and ran it via the SR so as not to get in the way down to Exeter?

I'm intrigued.

P

[bigwordsmith]

Hi Phil,

 

We first went on the Motorail, which was all the way down to Penzance in 1963 or '64, I remember that Dad had just recently acquired his first Vauxhall Cresta which had a three letter/three number registration ( his second was CGT159B which he bought secondhand in 1967- isn't it odd I still remember that!)

 

I think you're right about using GUVs - there were two or three cars to a carriage and I'm sure he had to drive it on himself, because he was proud of his ability to put quite a wide car into a narrow can.

 

The next time we went Motorail was about ten years later - this time to Swansea for a ferry to Ireland, and the cars were loaded onto a string of open flat bogie wagons with Motorail branding. Passenger accommodation was in Mk 1s and it was a family pedestrian daytime journey. I know we were finishing lunch as we went through the Severn tunnel and had time to mooch around Swansea before boarding the MV Innisfallen for a 10.00pm departure. 

 

The last time we all used it was in 1985 when my parents returned home to retire to Scotland. This was  from Euston on a overnight sleeper to Carlisle, which I recall being a right old mix of blue GUVs, a couple of raspberry ripple FOs and the sleepers being Mk1s in blue/grey. Motive power was a class 86.

 

It's odd that with the massive growth in motorway congestion they can't seem to make a profit out of loading cars onto trains - you;d think it should be easy, especially for long distance overnights to major tourist areas,

 

Peter

[bigwordsmith]

CONSTRUCTION HAS BEGUN!

 

Woo-Hoo!

 

So, as none of my clients actually gave me any work to do today I grabbed a sly day up in the railway room, and started by slapping Roof Grey Paint over the car carriers. Then I checked out my locos to see whether DCC would be in anyway viable, only to find after two box loads that 'DCC ready' only applies to about 12 out of my 60 locos.

 

Looking through the others, while I could potentially wire up some of my old tender drive Hornbys, split chassis Bachmanns are apparently a non-starter as is anything  more than ten years old.

 

So the DCC concept  is well and truly put to rest.

 

By this time Pepper had had enough of sitting upstairs with me, so time for lunch, check the email and let her sniff the fresh air.

 

SO, still with nothing in from the clients, I decided to lay out the first bit of timber for track laying and here are the results.

 

It's the spur to the engine shed from the Westbound exit form Waverley East, which will also carry the spur to the carriage sidings, and so far all I've done is loosely cut the decking pieces. 

 

And before anyone makes a joke, I am not planning to build the corner like a fifty pence piece!

 

Final shot is Pepper's idea of 'helping out with the railway'

 

I have also on returning to the desk to file this update received three client emails, so nose back to the grindstone, with my first business meeting post operation in Reading tomorrow! Luckily I can drive there and my client is kindly giving me a disabled space as I shall be using the walking stick.

Edited January 22, 2015 by bigwordsmith

[bigwordsmith]

I just discovered I've got 38 people following these ramblings - most of you have said very little and I'm delighted that you think it's worth keeping up with my meanderings.

 

Please feel free to chip in any comments, ideas, your own experiences, or indeed suggestions as to how things can be done better - I've had some great inspiration and help from several very kind and much respected modellers upon this forum, so please do keep the comments flowing!

 

 

Tx

 

Peter

[bigwordsmith]

-----STOP PRESS ---

 

Construction gang seen in action at Waverley East!

 

"First new line in the country's history" declare Not-as-Fat-as-he-was Controller

 

"First train to leave Waverley Shed"

 

Waverley Shed 25th January 2015...

 

In a daring break with tradition, and union rules, the construction team at Waverley Shed broke out of the confines of the shed with the building of a new viaduct and laying of 100 Scale yards of track today.

 

The construction took nearly all day dues to earlier measurement inaccuracies cause by the surveyors, which led to discovery in mid construction that the piers which had been prefabricated off site, were in fact too short. However in a spirit of determination, which saw the entire construction team work through its lunchbreak pausing only in mid-afternoon to sample  freshly baked scone with cream and jam, courtesy of the Not-as-fat-as-he-was-Controller's wife the line was finally lauid and made ready for test trains to run across it by 17.00.

 

During the remaining time before dinner, several tests were made with locos that'd been trapped in Waverley Shed since its closure in early February.

 

The first full train consisted of a consist of 7 car carrier wagons recently converted from Stainer 57' coaches hauled by the Not-as-fat-as-he-was-Controller's' favourite loco - Class 08 'Bachmann' shunter

 

 

During the rest of the afternoon various other steam locos tried out the new route, including a ghost loco

 

 

Apparently this 'P2' also followed prototypical practice as its pony truck regularly derailed over points that every other loco sails over!

 

Another brave attempt to try to the new viaduct came from an unknown A1 class loco known to the shed crew as "gutless" a reference to its inability to haul its own shadow out of the engine shed without slipping

 

 

Further updates will follow as construction continues.

 

 

 

[bigwordsmith]

I've had a couple of PMs about the progress, so just in case anyone's wondering about why the viaduct looks like the outer edge of a 50 pence piece, the answer is that I'm trying as far as possible to use offcuts of timber left over from building projects at home.

 

The deck is in fact made out of 18mm x 100 T&G boarding as used for the outside of our summer house which we built two years ago - we had a few lengths left and they got squirrelled away as they 'may come in useful one day"!

 

The piers - which will of course be disguised in scenery, are cut down from spare balusters from the staircase that leads up to the loft. They are effectively 2x2 that has been routed to give the chamfer, but you can get a pair of screws into the end grain to secure them to the desk off which the whole thing is built, and which came from a refit at our office, as well as to the deck above. 

 

The screws are 42mm drywall screws - again left over from the extension that now provides the railway with a home.

 

Finally the track is laid on top of corrugated cardboard, which came from slicing up the boxes we used for moving here two years ago, as well as for storing all our kitchen bits while the building work went on. Over the weekend I looked for 1/4 inch cork and found it would cost several hundred squids to cover the entire layout, so decided to use corrugated card, as we did back in the days at Abbottsmead.

 

The plywood for the decks is all left over from the building work, as is the 2 x1 and other softwoods - I may well have to buy some more 2x1 as we proceed, but the idea is to minimiser construction costs. It may take loner, but it all helps to improve my carpentry skills.

 

The track is pinned through the cardboard with Peco track pins, which holds everything in place until it is ballasted, at which point it will stick like the proverbial brown stuff to a blanket!