The Waverley Route revisited!

[dpaws]

Thank you for your wonderful layout thread and sorry to hear that you're in the wars. Just a thought, have you considered a Nelevation thingamajig?

[bigwordsmith]

OK After such a long silence you've probably all thought I've given up the ghost! In fact the back half of 2019 was a nightmare - in June I tore my Right Calf muscle, followed a month later by a tear in the Achilles and two months of intensive physio and rehab.

 

Sadly on 30th October, the RH Achilles went into a total rupture and I spent the next eight weeks in an air boot!

 

Booooooring, and of course no chance of getting up the new loft. In the meantime it got loaded and loaded with morse stuff as our now divorced daughter needed somewhere to store her effects to the point it ended up looking like a storage unit!.

 

But yesterday, inspired by the new Hornby  announcements, I decided to spend some time measuring it all up - I'm now moderately mobile and giving thought to what can be done.

 

The room is 6.3 metres long by 2.86 wide - so just over 20' x 9'6 in old money. The idea of this latest plan is to keep the trusty loco shed (all in red)  as it is after all still intact, and build a tail chaser around the rest of the room with a medium sized 4-road station working as a junction so having a couple of branch lines disappearing off. 

 

In reality the branch lines (coloured brown) will go to a long fiddle yard behind a back scene to the main lines which will run along behind the engine shed.

 

THis will allow me to split trains in the fiddle yard. send locos back and forth to effectively do an end to end, and run prototypical trains or the beloved Waverley Route.

 

The next six months will no doubt be spent trying to reduce the amount of clutter in the loft- first success today was disposing of a Karcher Steam cleaner for £30 on Facebook!

[Denbridge]

On 12/01/2020 at 12:09, bigwordsmith said:

OK After such a long silence you've probably all thought I've given up the ghost! In fact the back half of 2019 was a nightmare - in June I tore my Right Calf muscle, followed a month later by a tear in the Achilles and two months of intensive physio and rehab.

 

Sadly on 30th October, the RH Achilles went into a total rupture and I spent the next eight weeks in an air boot!

 

Booooooring, and of course no chance of getting up the new loft. In the meantime it got loaded and loaded with morse stuff as our now divorced daughter needed somewhere to store her effects to the point it ended up looking like a storage unit!.

 

But yesterday, inspired by the new Hornby  announcements, I decided to spend some time measuring it all up - I'm now moderately mobile and giving thought to what can be done.

 

The room is 6.3 metres long by 2.86 wide - so just over 20' x 9'6 in old money. The idea of this latest plan is to keep the trusty loco shed (all in red)  as it is after all still intact, and build a tail chaser around the rest of the room with a medium sized 4-road station working as a junction so having a couple of branch lines disappearing off. 

 

In reality the branch lines (coloured brown) will go to a long fiddle yard behind a back scene to the main lines which will run along behind the engine shed.

 

THis will allow me to split trains in the fiddle yard. send locos back and forth to effectively do an end to end, and run prototypical trains or the beloved Waverley Route.

 

The next six months will no doubt be spent trying to reduce the amount of clutter in the loft- first success today was disposing of a Karcher Steam cleaner for £30 on Facebook!

Nice! My only concern would be reaching across such a deep layout to reach the storage yards, especially since you say you will be splitting and reforming trains. There is also the need to do any maintenance and address any faults/derailments that may occur. I'm only speaking from past experiences.

[bigwordsmith]

2 minutes ago, Denbridge said:

Nice! My only concern would be reaching across such a deep layout to reach the storage yards, especially since you say you will be splitting and reforming trains. There is also the need to do any maintenance and address any faults/derailments that may occur. I'm only speaking from past experiences.

 

Very fair point - the total baseboard width is 3'3 in old language, 1 meter in continental.

 

I can reach that far, especially if I use my trusty step stool. Also I've been thinking about having the running lines about 2" above the shed layout. This will make it easier to reach over - I'm 6'2- but we are going to have to do a little bit of chopping down on the access doors to the eaves cupboard so I can drop the baseboard to  a sensible height. 

 

Gilbert Barnatt of Peterborough North has a width of one metre on his fiddle yard, and I think he's slightly shorter in height, and definitely in girth, than I am!

 

The big challenge of course is that there was such variety of traffic going through the route that to do it justice you need to run several train types. During my time at the last house, I went on a bit of a buying spree to cover this, so have far too much stock in the loft including enough vehicles for:

 

Mixed passenger 6 coach - four rakes

Local passenger 4 coach, plus the odd van or milk tanker- four rakes

Express using Mk1s - three rakes

Passenger using Gresley/ Thompson stock - three rakes

Pullman - One rake which would be the QoS diverted due to engineering on the ECML

Sleeper - one rake

Overnight Car sleeper service - one rake, again a diversion set

Parcels (10) vans - one rake

DMU x3

Mixed goods - five sets

Footie special from Cornwall - one set

Coal train - three sets

Steam crane - two sets -( Just got the new Bacchy Ransomes & Rapier)

 

So actually I need a fiddle yard about 3x the size of the one I have!

 

I also got given some rather splendid Hornby Southern locos, including a WC, Q1 and a terrier, so would like to find a way to show them off!

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, bigwordsmith said:

 

Very fair point - the total baseboard width is 3'3 in old language, 1 meter in continental.

 

I can reach that far, especially if I use my trusty step stool. Also I've been thinking about having the running lines about 2" above the shed layout. This will make it easier to reach over - I'm 6'2- but we are going to have to do a little bit of chopping down on the access doors to the eaves cupboard so I can drop the baseboard to  a sensible height. 

 

Gilbert Barnatt of Peterborough North has a width of one metre on his fiddle yard, and I think he's slightly shorter in height, and definitely in girth, than I am!

 

The big challenge of course is that there was such variety of traffic going through the route that to do it justice you need to run several train types. During my time at the last house, I went on a bit of a buying spree to cover this, so have far too much stock in the loft including enough vehicles for:

 

Mixed passenger 6 coach - four rakes

Local passenger 4 coach, plus the odd van or milk tanker- four rakes

Express using Mk1s - three rakes

Passenger using Gresley/ Thompson stock - three rakes

Pullman - One rake which would be the QoS diverted due to engineering on the ECML

Sleeper - one rake

Overnight Car sleeper service - one rake, again a diversion set

Parcels (10) vans - one rake

DMU x3

Mixed goods - five sets

Footie special from Cornwall - one set

Coal train - three sets

Steam crane - two sets -( Just got the new Bacchy Ransomes & Rapier)

 

So actually I need a fiddle yard about 3x the size of the one I have!

 

I also got given some rather splendid Hornby Southern locos, including a WC, Q1 and a terrier, so would like to find a way to show them off!

Cassettes dear boy....speak to the Barnatt man. I CBA to look at your lovely plan and suggest where cassette 'feed'  track(s) could be fitted in, but some clever arse will do the honours I am sure.

Duckness.

[bigwordsmith]

Ah Phil, the great master and I have discussed this many times. It may well be the answer!

[bigwordsmith]

So many thanks for the kind comments and messages, and especially to My good friends of this Parish, His Mighty Duckness and Great Northern.

 

Phil's suggestion to reduce the need to max out on Ebay, was to go down the cassette route and lengthy and insightful conversation with Gilbert has helped to formulate the strategy.

 

As you can see from the mildly revised plan below, I've now added in a spur off the fiddle yard with room to drop cassettes in, shown in green, and a dink out of the baseboard to allow easy access. This offers very exciting possibilities, and in fact I used to have a set of lines below the main loco shed baseboard for additional loco storage, so I can see this becoming home for cassettes.

 

Now I just need to get rid of some more items...

[great northern]

4 minutes ago, bigwordsmith said:

So many thanks for the kind comments and messages, and especially to My good friends of this Parish, His Mighty Duckness and Great Northern.

 

Phil's suggestion to reduce the need to max out on Ebay, was to go down the cassette route and lengthy and insightful conversation with Gilbert has helped to formulate the strategy.

 

As you can see from the mildly revised plan below, I've now added in a spur off the fiddle yard with room to drop cassettes in, shown in green, and a dink out of the baseboard to allow easy access. This offers very exciting possibilities, and in fact I used to have a set of lines below the main loco shed baseboard for additional loco storage, so I can see this becoming home for cassettes.

 

Now I just need to get rid of some more items...

That will work a lot better with cassettes, Peter. You will have far more options for different trains, to alleviate boredom in due course.

[Mallard60022]

Smiffy, I have a short article from Model Rail, May 2018 about making Cassettes. However they are a bit posh and quite frankly, over engineered IMO.  GB's ones are plain, simple and work a treat but I'll copy the MR article should you want to look at it.

Phil 

[thegreenhowards]

Hello Peter,

 

I’ve just read through your thread from page 19 (as you suggest on p1). Sorry to hear about your health problems, but it looks like you have a good (railway) solution going forward. I’d echo Phil and Gilbert’s thoughts on cassettes - they allow variety on an occasional basis and also allow us to do what we all love - buying more trains than we have space for!

 

I look forward to hearing about progress.

 

ATB

 

Andy

[bigwordsmith]

9 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Hello Peter,

 

I’ve just read through your thread from page 19 (as you suggest on p1). Sorry to hear about your health problems, but it looks like you have a good (railway) solution going forward. I’d echo Phil and Gilbert’s thoughts on cassettes - they allow variety on an occasional basis and also allow us to do what we all love - buying more trains than we have space for!

 

I look forward to hearing about progress.

 

ATB

 

Andy

 

Andy that's very kind and I would love to be able to achieve a fraction of your realistic on the new layout, but my track laying skills, and patience, are wholly inadequate. Not to mention the limits of time available,  as I still work, have an active life locally and regular grandchildren, as well as being an advanced motorcycling instructor with the IAM!

 

Health is one thing we all take for granted, fortunately I'm getting better - I've been cleared to take up more physical exercise, so am looking forward to getting back to a good level of fitness. I''m already walking almost without a limp, which at 12 weeks seems to be a major achievement!

 

My next huge challenge in the loft is finding out where on earth I can put all the stuff that is stored there!

Edited January 22, 2020 by bigwordsmith

[phil.c]

Like looking in a container from Storage Wars.....what's tha latest bid

[bigwordsmith]

15 minutes ago, phil.c said:

Like looking in a container from Storage Wars.....what's tha latest bid

 

The problem is that much of the stuff on the left side is railway related, the stuff on the right centre is our daughter's as she is currently in rented while going through a divorce, the stuff in the far right corner is all stuff we have to keep for HMRC, and the near right is a mix of things tha could one day come in useful and SWMBO's arts and crafts. The eaves cupboards on both sides are already full!

 

The stuff down the end is mostly to do with the caravan, so gets brought indoors for the winter.

 

Not sure where on earth most of it can go!

[phil.c]

A new shed

[bigwordsmith]

1 hour ago, phil.c said:

A new shed

 

It has crossed my mind! - the funny thing is we only built the garage last year and it was expressly intended to be my railway room!

[lmsforever]

Good to see you back on the treadmill ,interesting layout subject  hope the loft clearance happens.

[bigwordsmith]

21 minutes ago, lmsforever said:

Good to see you back on the treadmill ,interesting layout subject  hope the loft clearance happens.

 

Thanks - me too!

[gordon s]

Hi Peter, only just found your thread and will read it in more detail later, but pleased you are managing to be upbeat despite all the health issues that have been thrown at you. Couple of things to watch out for with loft layouts and sloping eaves....

 

The useable space is very much dictated by the height of the boards. What started out as 18' for me ended us as 14' as I had totally miscalculated the roof overhang. This made it difficult to access tracks at the back as they went into a very limited access space with the roof slope above.

 

Get your self a hard hat....Even after 15 years of working in my railway room, I still bang my head on the sloping roof....

 

To be honest, what seemed like loads of space in the design phase, now has shrunk considerably. I'm not complaining as I still have much more space than others, but trains have had to be shortened to make them visually acceptable. 

 

I also owe you an apology. My frames are 4" x 1" not 3" x 1"....

 

Thought it was strange as I was looking at them this morning. Of course as planed timber, they are slightly smaller, 92mm to be precise. Funny as a 70 something, I swap from imperial to metric without giving it a second thought. When our builders were here converting the garage, they cut the wood at ground level and it was passed up to the carpenter. He would measure and shout down and I wondered why it is was 6'6" one minute and 3m the next. He just used a flexi tape and called out a length based on the nearest whole unit......

 

Good luck with your build. 

[bigwordsmith]

26 minutes ago, gordon s said:

Hi Peter, only just found your thread and will read it in more detail later, but pleased you are managing to be upbeat despite all the health issues that have been thrown at you. Couple of things to watch out for with loft layouts and sloping eaves....

 

The useable space is very much dictated by the height of the boards. What started out as 18' for me ended us as 14' as I had totally miscalculated the roof overhang. This made it difficult to access tracks at the back as they went into a very limited access space with the roof slope above.

 

Get your self a hard hat....Even after 15 years of working in my railway room, I still bang my head on the sloping roof....

 

To be honest, what seemed like loads of space in the design phase, now has shrunk considerably. I'm not complaining as I still have much more space than others, but trains have had to be shortened to make them visually acceptable. 

 

I also owe you an apology. My frames are 4" x 1" not 3" x 1"....

 

Thought it was strange as I was looking at them this morning. Of course as planed timber, they are slightly smaller, 92mm to be precise. Funny as a 70 something, I swap from imperial to metric without giving it a second thought. When our builders were here converting the garage, they cut the wood at ground level and it was passed up to the carpenter. He would measure and shout down and I wondered why it is was 6'6" one minute and 3m the next. He just used a flexi tape and called out a length based on the nearest whole unit......

 

Good luck with your build. 

 

Hi Gordon

 

Thank you for your kind and helpful comments. I think the worst example of loft building I ever did was to put a set of storage sidings underneath a branchlike station in the eaves, with a stonking great purlin running the length of the sidings about 3" above!

 

I've decided to limit baseboard width to a maximum of 3' (900mm- I too am bilingual) and have a handy little step in the loft which I bought to rehab the Achilles that will give me an extra 3" of operating reach to get over the scenery to deal with any derailments in the sidings. My plan is to effectively reverse engineer the viaduct and sidings from the last line to act as  a hidden fiddle yard. I'll put up a removable back scene above the embankment, which will only be 2" above the sidings and engine shed, so while you will be able to see the sidings from above, from anything less than 45degrees they will disappear behind the scenic relief.

 

4x1 is an almighty frame - I'll probably stick to my 2x1 lattice because I've kept almost all the timber from the last line, which was twice the size.

 

I've attached a pic showing the old viaduct - this is the bit I'm planning to reverse to build the fiddle yard, as I already have the baseboard built it makes sense, especially as it has room to carry another two sidings. I will have to redo the viaduct bit as it climbs about 40mm across its length, although I may be able to get over that with some creative level swaps . It's always ore fun to have some gradients on the main line!

 

The Western and brown/ cream coaches are a footex from Plymouth that got to New Street and couldn't find a loco to swap as the scheduled Type 4EE failed, so the Western got to run up to Scotland!

 

As you can see having catholic tastes in locos creates some great opportunities for Rule 1 operations.

[7APT7]

On 14/01/2020 at 13:38, bigwordsmith said:

 

 

Hi

 

A very nice layout, it will be interesting to see your progress,

 

Regards

Jamie

Edited January 24, 2020 by 7APT7

[bigwordsmith]

35 minutes ago, 7APT7 said:

 

Hi

 

A very nice layout, it will be interesting to see your progress,

 

Regards

Jamie

 

MANy thanks Jamie

[bigwordsmith]

SO , no physical progress to report, although I have found a chippy, but a bit more thought in the planning stage!

 

Mindful of all the concerns about access to the fiddle yard, not to mention one's own decreasing flexibility ( it's an age thing I suspect) I bra d brainwave the other night to have a fully visible fiddle yard, albeit with only four roads, but to set them up looking like a four track main line station approach. That way I can have signal gantries and the general detritus of a main line with the elevated section made up from the old viaduct suitably hacked about!

 

Anyway, that, and allowing space for the cassettes, should make it all do-able.

 

Now to tackle the mess in the loft!

[bigwordsmith]

Just to keep up some interest I spotted some great weathering a well as adhesion problems on Coronach's excellent thread "Whinburgh & Slitrigg" and promised to upload a few examples of my own weathering.

 

 

[Mallard60022]

2 hours ago, bigwordsmith said:

Just to keep up some interest I spotted some great weathering a well as adhesion problems on Coronach's excellent thread "Whinburgh & Slitrigg" and promised to upload a few examples of my own weathering.

 

 

That WD has made a speedy journey north from Peterborough North! bet it made a hell of a clang as it zoomed down to the no man's land area that is the Waverley.

P

[bigwordsmith]

Indeed- it arrived via my friendly loco depot at Morris Models in Lancing, so it managed a detour via Southern metals!