The Waverley Route revisited!

[Mallard60022]

If I do DCC later, on SJ, it will have conventional points control (but maybe still with the DCC Concepts thingy) as it is still DC usage. Much the same as many other folk I suppose.

I use NCE DCC track control (& Sound) on my EM layout but with conventional DC points & signals control as I can't BA to purchase those decoders for the points etc. 

Now I'm considering DCC track control for the obvious advantages of the situation with multiple loco's in 'section'.

P

[bigwordsmith]

I did wonder about DCC point control and signalling with analogue loco control, using a cab control model, but when I looked into it it seems like I would need a degree in computer science to make it work.

 

Instead I'm going to try and make a visual control panel, so that the switch position will let you know which road has been selected, and as I have about 50 Seep point motors that I have no intention of using I've decided to use those as relays to light up LEDs to work as route indicators.

 

I'm tempted by the idea of I/R track sensors to let me know if a road is occupied in a tunnel, but as already pointed out ,by keeping the wiring simple, if a fault does arise it can be relatively easily traced.

 

Having written computer software in a past life, I know how quickly you can find your programming  has run into lots of lines of code, and believe me it is a million times harder to work out where the fault is in code, than it is when you are looking for a green wire that should be black!

[bigwordsmith]

While sorting out stock earlier today I found a whole box full of missing locos, included in which was my much weathered B17. Not strictly correct for this part of the works, but worth adding in a few shots - My father absolutely loved this loco - he used to watch B1s and similar trudging up the cll to the sidings at Portobello and he told me this was in very similar condition to those reaching the end of their lives.

 

 

 

[bigwordsmith]

Among the other locos I found was met Deltic - Royal Scots Grey, so I could;t resist putting it at the head of the Down Queen of Scots, presumably diverted along the Waverley Following the closure of the ECML for engineering works!

 

 

 

And another sot of the old and the new crossing paths - incidentally the A3 has just lifted 11 bogies from a standing start on a 1: 110

 

 

 

[great northern]

Flooding of the ECML dear chap, perfect excuse.  And I'm feeling left out and discriminated here. Why can't I find boxes of locos like you and that Duck do?

[bigwordsmith]

Thanks Gilbert. The ECML was out for a lengthy period just after the war and all the big ER expresses were diverted across the Waverley, so I'm being accurate, just not totally on the timing!

 

What did you think of the B17? - probably a bot too gathered and run down for your taste! It came about because I'd resprayed it from Apple green after acquiring it 2md hand and CBA\d to do the lining!

 

The box of stock was a relief - I'd been searching for it for ages, but kept thinking it was full of scenic materiel, until I have a big sort out!

[bigwordsmith]

Been thinking about control panels - as you do - so Popped upstair to start counting points and doing a wee audit of available switches etc. and noticed this scene as I happen to have two trains sitting on the Down roads at Riccarton.

 

A glimpse of the future when it's all ballasted up ? Who knows perhaps a Carlisle - Waverley semi-fast being held at Riccarton while the diverted Queen of Scots passes through?

 

 

Heigh Ho!

 

The other piece of good news is I just won a secondhand Canon 550EOS with multiple lenses and other bits and pieces on Ebay  - it has an 18.5 Mpixel sensor and can take the whole range of EOS lenses, so I'm hoping to be able to do something about the focus and depth of field which are painfully beyond the limits of the iPhone that has been used so far.

Edited November 15, 2015 by bigwordsmith

[bigwordsmith]

Sometimes the urge to play trains at the end of a long weekend is overpowering, which is what happened last night

 

Same set of carriages, but this time with a class 40 a the front - totally prototypical for the period, and a class 08 shunter mooching around the carriage sidings having just delivered a trio of catering vehicles from the main station....

 

[bigwordsmith]

I know, I know - Quackers please note - the worst thing you can do is to give yourself a ruddy great circle for trains to chase their tails around or building will grind to a halt.

 

As indeed it did this afternoon when I set off upstairs to start work on the control panel. I also took my new toy upstairs - just acquired Canon 550D bought off Ebay with three lenses, tripod filters, flash and case for £ 310.00 - it arrived yesterday and is  in mint condition.

 

Of course with such a new toy,  I just couldn't resist opening the regulator to watch the A3 and Type 40 do their stuff.

 

 

Pepper came too - she decided the camera was much more interesting that the trains, which also threw out the autofocus

 

 

So I gave her her due, and shot one of her - she's a bit vain that way!

 

 

After she had been photo'ed she realised that there was no more pork offcuts from my lunchtime sarnie to be had so cleared off to her bed, so I decided to have a go shooting around the shed area to get the feel for the new camera - nothing fancy,y and just using 'P' Mode, where I set eyes on the old B17 sitting on the Turntable and wondered - 'would it be able to lift the heavy Waverley Trains?'

 

 

to which the answer is yes - unfortunately I didn't get the focusing right - still learning my way around the camera and had it on manual focus by this time - so apologies for the blurry pic.

 

 

This is one of the original Hornby B17s - it must be 40 years old and was bought secondhand from Froude & Hext in Swindon probably for about £5.00. I resprayed it, but CBA to line it so did the weathering job on it!

 

The drive is to the front and rear wheel sets of the tender, with two of the wheels having traction tyres. Pickup originally was split between loco and tender, but I got pickups added through Moris Models in Lancing and it now doesn't stall going through section changes!

 

It's a plucky little loco - the same tender mechanism - which I know is woefully over length for an LNER group standard tender - drives my D49, which will also be given a run out shortly!

 

I did find that the tender drive got a tad warm after 15 minutes of this rather heavy load, so swapped the tractive effort over to a Bachman A1. THis couldn't haul its own shadow when close coupled to its tender, but by using the long coupling - which looks awful hence the lack of pics, it hauled like a train!

 

I wonn't be posting tomorrow - full day of client meetings, followed by an awards dinner for which we are on the shortlist for a campaign. Dickie bows and posh frocks (For the ladies!) according to the tickets, and if we do win I'm quite sure that drink will be taken in no small measure!

 

So if you don't hear from me on Friday you may understand why!

Edited November 18, 2015 by bigwordsmith

[landscapes]

Hi Peter

 

Not Sure if you are still looking for additional A3 Locomotives for your layout.

 

There are two for sale on EBay at the present time that may suit your needs.

 

First one is Hornby A3 60069 Sceptre a Heaton based A3, the donor locomotive was 60093 Coranach so it's the latest Hornby model, double chimney late crest on tender.

 

Just Five hours left no bids so far and on for a starting price of £95.00 plus P/P.

 

The second one is Hornby A3 60070 Gladiateur a Gateshead A3, no note of donor locomotive, German smoke deflectors and late crest on tender also weathered, it has a 56A shed plate on it.

 

This one has13 hours to go no bids so far on for a starting price of £97.00 plus P/P.

 

Both I thought would have got to Edinburgh and possible run over the Waverley Line, I do have photos of 60070 at Haymarket.

 

Regards

 

David

Edited December 6, 2015 by landscapes

[bigwordsmith]

David thanks for spotting those - I've bid on them both and will see if either comes home!

[landscapes]

David thanks for spotting those - I've bid on them both and will see if either comes home!

Good luck Peter

 

I just missed out yesterday when I bid for Hornby A4 60028 Walter K Whigham a Hornby conversion by the same person who is selling 60069 sceptre.

 

I only lost it by a few pounds when I made a last minute bid, shame as this was the first A4 I saw back in 1962 just four months before it was withdrawn so I was lucky to see it.

 

The model did have the wrong corridor tender but I could have overcome that.

 

Still I will have to bid on another A4 and convert it myself as I would like to have 60028 for sentimental reasons and I know it was used on the Elizabethen and was at Haymarket on at least a few occasions.

 

Let me know how you got on as both models look good.

 

Regards

 

David

[great northern]

Good luck Peter

 

I just missed out yesterday when I bid for Hornby A4 60028 Walter K Whigham a Hornby conversion by the same person who is selling 60069 sceptre.

 

I only lost it by a few pounds when I made a last minute bid, shame as this was the first A4 I saw back in 1962 just four months before it was withdrawn so I was lucky to see it.

 

The model did have the wrong corridor tender but I could have overcome that.

 

Still I will have to bid on another A4 and convert it myself as I would like to have 60028 for sentimental reasons and I know it was used on the Elizabethen and was at Haymarket on at least a few occasions.

 

Let me know how you got on as both models look good.

 

Regards

 

David

Walter K would be a very appropriate choice David, as it was by all accounts one of the very best Top Shed A4s, even when single blast. The statistics show it to have been one of the most used engines on the Elizabethan. I wasn't going to have it on PN, as I don't like the name, but when I found out how highly regarded it was I changed my mind.

[bigwordsmith]

I've got 60028, but named Seagull -I had the plates and preferred the original name

 

Us an early Hornby tender drive and doesn't much love code 75, so it will probably languish around the shed

[landscapes]

Walter K would be a very appropriate choice David, as it was by all accounts one of the very best Top Shed A4s, even when single blast. The statistics show it to have been one of the most used engines on the Elizabethan. I wasn't going to have it on PN, as I don't like the name, but when I found out how highly regarded it was I changed my mind.

Thanks Gilbert

 

You have just reinforced my commitment to get 60028 as soon as I can get the appropriate donor Hornby A4.

 

I have great memories of her thundering through Finsbury Park station in 1962, my first A4 cop.

 

when you next have one of your running sessions it would be nice to see 60028 running through PN.

 

Regards

 

David

[bigwordsmith]

Having felt totally wiped out and pulled my diaphragm from coughing up stuff that even a GWR person would turn up their nose at for most of last week, which also saw me bedridden from Thursday to Sunday, SWMBO took me to the out of hours doc on Sunday night. He reckoned that with my lung history the best course involved antibiotics, and promptly dispensed a pack of Doxycycline as I'm allergic to Penicillin. 

 

As a result, yesterday went by unnoticed - I was flat out in bed all day, but thank The Lord, the coughing abated to the point I could actually catch up on the lost ZZZs of the previous four nights. Provided that is, I didn't mind being woken up every hour or so in order for the lungs to clear themselves!

 

So this morning I surfaced feeling able to at least open my eyes, and after watching Tim Peake's flawless departure, made it out of the pit.

 

"Ta Da" - methinks. "I's getting better!" So I came downstairs, emptied the dishwasher, tidied up the family room, as SWMBO had gone out to get fresh bread, and, well, that was it for the day!

 

Poor SWMBO has also started a rather nasty cough, and a sore throat, but , fingers crossed, she's not going down as badly. In fact he's wrapping Christmas presents right now!

 

So having made it downstairs, I decided not to waste the day totally, so sat down with my Waverley Route books and worked through them noting down the locos pictured. It's the kind of exercise you'd just never have time to do unless you really weren't capable of anything else, and it proved very interesting! (shows you how bored being ill makes you)

 

Having seen all the usual suspects, and a fair few others, I then decided to look up their withdrawal dates. (I know, it just gets sadder, but bear in mind I really haven't been up to moving around much)

 

Then shoved the whole lot into Excel...

 

 

Next I looked at my stock list (it's amazing how you can fill your time while waiting for Tim Peake to arrive at the ISS) and worked out which Diesels I've got. This time it was a case of finding out their realistic introduction dates, i.e. when there were enough of them around to reasonably expect an appearance on the Waverley

 

 

So what? You may rightly ask. 

 

Well it means that if I want to include those A3 stalwarts Sir Visto and Coronach, whose names really are synonymous with the line, then I'd need to pitch all movements in 1961 or at the latest, or Spring 62. Even then, if you look at the list of withdrawals in 1962, it's a sorry list, and even includes my beloved Trimbush However, that would mean that the class 55 Deltic, together wth the Peak and the Western, which can only come in on a foot ext anyway, would not be able to run without the use of Dr. Who's Tardis.

 

I know rule 1 applies - after all I've got a P2 and Kestrel, neither of which could get there in any stretch of the imagination but it is interesting to see just how far one would be using the envelope.

 

Given the mix of crimson and cream and maroon coaches, not to mention that I've got Thomsons, Gresleys and most recently some Stanier Portholes as well as a bunch of Mk1s, I suppose the historical pressure is really on to stay as far back towards the beginning of the 1960s as possible, especially as I happen to prefer crimson and cream to plain maroon!

 

There are times when I wonder if going RMWeb was a good thing - ignorance being bliss and all that!

 

Ah well, if you see a couple of MIB Heljans coming up on Ebay you'll know I've become an accuraholic!

 

I suppose at least it will save me buying a rake of Cream and Brown coaches to run behind the Western.

 

 

[great northern]

The one certain thing Peter is that if you tie yourself down to a specific period you will never be able to justify all the things you would like to have. I reckon it really is something to which you have to apply a purely personal test. You just have to ask yourself whether you would be happy with whatever it is you are contemplating. If I were modelling the Waverley, I'd have to include D30s for a start, but then I've got a thing about pre grouping 4.4.0s. So you can

 

A)   run whatever you like

 

B)   choose a reasonably flexible time scale and stick to it, or

 

C)  Choose different periods, and build up the stock for each of them. That is the expensive option.

[bigwordsmith]

I think you're right Gilbert. Perhaps I'll take a leaf out of Phil's book and model "in the spirit of..." Waverley.

 

At least then I can run a ghost train and keep a straight face, although those Kirks are incredibly light footed in a long rake.

[60027Merlin]

Peter

 

Following on from Gilbert's excellent posting it would be worth considering a handful of different time periods bearing in mind your preference for crimson and cream coaching stock. Perhaps early/mid 50s, late 50s, early 60s up to closure. You can then add a fourth i.e. run anythng you want even if the locos never ran on the Waverley Route.

 

One of the key elements in the character of the Waverley Route was the loco classes and workings regularly seen on it. Therefore to get the Waverley Route atmosphere on your layout you would have to sub- divide the loco classes and trains in these time frames to help "make" the model. I should imagine that you would get more satisfaction from running sessions as well by adopting this principle. You could copy a lot of the workings from the many photographs in the books of the Route. Remember the title of the layout!

 

Of course the fourth option can be used from time to time in the "anything goes" category just for an enjoyable change!

 

Eric

[bigwordsmith]

Hi Eric

 

A very fair point. Of course this is a practical approach, but also would require me to have a selection of stock- which I do, and a sequence, which I don't, and be able to swap over complete trains to match the time period.

 

Back in the early planning days of planning this monster, Gilbert and I spent much time discussing the merits of a large fiddle yard that would allow me to hold many trains, similar to PN, but my desire to retain the existing shed layout and build that in, precluded that option.

 

Currently I'm thinking about a number of passing loops in the hidden area of the main line behind Riccarton where this could be built, but I may find I can only hold 4 trains in that area.

 

Arguably, if I have just 4 combinations of carriage/ locos that would never have been seen at the same time, I can devise a sequence to achieve this. Having thought I was heaps better, but collapsing to the sofa and sleeping for the last three hours, maybe this is exactly what I need to keep me occupied!

 

Thanks for the input and valuable ideas

 

Peter

[Mallard60022]

Hi Eric

 

A very fair point. Of course this is a practical approach, but also would require me to have a selection of stock- which I do, and a sequence, which I don't, and be able to swap over complete trains to match the time period.

 

Back in the early planning days of planning this monster, Gilbert and I spent much time discussing the merits of a large fiddle yard that would allow me to hold many trains, similar to PN, but my desire to retain the existing shed layout and build that in, precluded that option.

 

Currently I'm thinking about a number of passing loops in the hidden area of the main line behind Riccarton where this could be built, but I may find I can only hold 4 trains in that area.

 

Arguably, if I have just 4 combinations of carriage/ locos that would never have been seen at the same time, I can devise a sequence to achieve this. Having thought I was heaps better, but collapsing to the sofa and sleeping for the last three hours, maybe this is exactly what I need to keep me occupied!

 

Thanks for the input and valuable ideas

 

Peter

Ah, the huge fiddle yard made redundant by the spur and many cassettes system. Gilbert has just been helping me with the application of spurs and cassettes and it will work a treat. It really can sort your stock requirements out on 'our' sort of layout i.e. not for exhibitionists and to run stuff we really like and over several eras. Had you considered that? 4 cassettes of 3 coaches in each + 12 coach availability. Brakes can be stored on a couple of spurs or just sat somewhere ready for 'plonking' (that's a P4 technical term by the way)

Phil

[bigwordsmith]

Phil as you know Gilbert's cassette system makes a fine case for swapping trains, and I have allowed the potential for just that at the end of the carriage sidings.

 

This pic shows the sidings - I could add a cassette fixing to the end of the right hand one as seen here which is where the photographer was positioned. I can even disguise it scenically .

 

 

The problem is that unlike Gilbert, who had the sense to build a fiddle yard where such things can take place out of sight, in my case, I'd have to handle stock swaps which would then need to be shunted into the main station before setting off for service.

 

This of course is all very prototypical and may well be a future development, and thanks to Gilbert's good offices I have built in the potential to do it from the go!

[bigwordsmith]

A random posting  for today - while swapping PMs with Stubby47 on the subject of tunnel mouths I knocked up a design idea for the landscape around the Eastern end of Riccarton and thought 'that looks good enough to share' 

 

 

I'm glad I did it, not least because it answered a question about where to run the cable bus to supply Riccarton and the loops, which clearly needs to be behind the mountain, i.e. under the loops on the main line

 

No doubt the eagle eyed among you will also spot that I have a trailing crossing on a bridge - if you can have a prototype for everything you need look no further than the Waverley Route. IN this case Galashiels!

Edited December 16, 2015 by bigwordsmith

[bigwordsmith]

So, not much posting of late and time to catch up. Apart from the awful cold which I still have, there's another good reason, which is that there hasn't been much to see as all the work has been going on out of sight.

 

In this case it is the wiring, one of my least favourite jobs, but very necessary and hugely satisfying when it all works properly.

 

This is the control panel for Waverley West Junction. As you can see there are 12 H&M switches, a mix of flash and 2-Way make/breaks, which are used for point control and section switching respectively.

 

 

This is just one side of the board, even still it has 24 different wires hooked up just to deal with this one small panel. On the other side of the H&M Duette will be the switch panel for Riccarton which will account for another 18 switches.

 

Waverley East Station and the fiddle yard ( loops ) will be on a separate panel, which will probably be designed differently as well.

 

Part of the wiring  complexity has been setting up the bank of old Seep point motors that are being used to switch controllers for the double slips. You can see  them in this pic, sitting at the back of the panel which has been pulled out - I made a drawer for it to sit on, so that I can get to the wires once the station boards are screwed down.

 

 

This exercise involved lots of interesting switching graphics to work out how the power would go. I won't bore you with the details, just glad to remember something useful from 'A'Level physics!

 

Finally I thought I'd show the culmination of today's efforts - would you believe three hours spent being a cable monkey to get 8, yes 8, 6 core cables round from the control area to Riccarton at both ends?

 

 

The multicoloured insulation tape is an idea I got from the sparks rewiring our house last year. He used different colour combos on the ends of each wire as he ran them from power board to fitting, so that he could tell which one he was working on when he got to the other end.

 

It saved him ages in trying to work out which of the xxty wires was the one he actually wanted to hook up, and I'm hoping to have the same result.

 

Incidentally this is the first time I've wired up a layout using all new wiring - the cost for a beast this size is off the scale. These 6 core multicore thingies are £60 for a 50metre reel and I got through two of them just running the cables for Riccarton today!

 

The theory is that by using mains grade cable I'll minimise power drop - with some of these cable runs being 20m plus, that is an important consideration.

 

When they get to their destination they are hooked up to track droppers or point feeds using a piece of jointing strip screwed to the front of the baseboard framing for easy access.

 

While I was working on this lot, my eye was caught by sunlight landing on one of my new A3s, so I grabbed the camera and clicked away- Many thanks to David ( landscapes) for spotting these two on Ebay

 

 

And now all that remains is to wish all my friends here on RMWeb a Very Happy Christmas and the very best for 2016, along with my thanks for your kind support and comments through the year

 

ATB

 

Peter

Edited December 21, 2015 by bigwordsmith

[bigwordsmith]

I've decided that i really hate wiring - two hours last night spent trying to work out why a loco promptly went the opposite direction when crossing between sections and I was convinced that I had followed the wiring convention throughout.

 

Finally tracked it down to a reversing of the polarities between the two main lines over the viaduct and the rest of the layout. Solution ?

1) rewire the common return on the up and down mains,

2) Swap the terminals on both controllers

 

And voila it all worked. 

 

After two hours of faffing around with avometers and all manner of spaghetti tracing. Hopefully I'll get another hour or two up there today