Introducing the Newtown & Barrowhaven Light Railway

[SebBarrow]

Hello all,

 

My wife and I are currently moving into our first home. I've decided there isn't a natural space in the (terraced) house for a 4mm model railway, but the longish garden is perfect for an outdoor operation. Considering that we are already thinking about reworking parts of the garden for flower borders etc, now seems to be the ideal time to think about the railway concept as well.

 

I have a vague understanding of the different gauge and scale options available. Dimensions and layout of the garden would permit use of either 16mm or 32mm gauge track, although obviously the smaller option appeals simply because it would allow more to be fitted in.

 

I visited the Somesay Island railway last summer (google it if you don't know about this awesome garden operation) and the idea of battery operated trains being sent between operators at different stations really appeals. However I don't know if this limits the gauge option? Is 16mm gauge an electric-only option, if so I might want to focus on 32mm gauge.

 

My concept is a fictional, British island based narrow gauge system, linking a port with a town via a hilly coastal landscape. A branch line to a quarry is a future option. My emphasis will be on operational enjoyment rather than prototype correctness.

 

Does anyone have any pointers to start me in the right direction? I understand the benefit of including a covered area (shed available) and elevating the track above ground level. Beyond that, I'm on my own!

 

Thanks in advance

 

Seb

Edited December 25, 2014 by SebBarrow

[66C]

Hi Seb

 

There are lots of options for the garden - live steam, battery or even clockwork!

 

For narrow gauge the best starting place is definitely the Association of 16mm Narrow Gauge Modellers. Lots of introductory information on their website at:

 

http://www.16mm.org.uk/newsite/default.html

 

There is also a lively and very helpful Yahoo group at:

 

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/16mmngm/?yguid=157936198

 

If you would rather model standard gauge bear in mind that curves need to be larger radii for 7mm (0 gauge) or 10mm (Gauge1) scales.

 

The Gauge 0 Guild publishes a booklet (online) as one of its benefits for members.

 

I believe there is also a Gauge 1 association but you would need to research that yourself.

 

Regards.

[SebBarrow]

Hi Bill, thanks for the reply.

 

I'm definitely leaning towards narrow gauge, simply because I think it looks better winding through the garden.

 

I think the choice of gauge / scale is the major question I'm considering at the moment, the main problem is that I can't quite visualize the actual size of the models.  Roughly how large is a 7mm scale narrow gauge locomotive?  Can such trains be converted to battery operation or should I be focusing on 16mm scale?

 

Thanks for the links, I'll trawl through them when I get a chance.

Seb

[PatB]

A useful rule of thumb for visualisation purposes is to think of a narrow gauge train as being of similar bulk to a standard gauge train using the same track gauge.  Thus 009 has similar physical presence to N standard gauge,  0-16.5 to 00 etc.  This starts to stretch a bit in the larger scales as a train in SM32 (16mm/ft scale on 32mm gauge track) definitely has a bit more visual bulk to it than anything short of a scale length main line express in 0.

 

As to the choice between 0-16.5 (which I assume is what you mean by 16mm gauge) and SM32, I, personally, would go for the latter.  Not only are the models more robust and more visible against a garden background but, IMHO, it can actually be more economical in terms of cash and time.  Sure, if you want to go for large, sophisticated live steamers, SM32 can absorb a substantial fortune.  However, if you are more modest in your initial ambitions and look at some of the starter kits from someone like IP Engineering for simple battery locos you can get something attractive running well for as little, perhaps less, than in any of the smaller scales.

[Philately]

16mm scale or the more elastic G scale are both big enough to withstand the vicissitudes of the garden, and both can model UK prototypes, though many so-called models are freelance. Whilst our famous NG lines are 2 ft gauge, in fact 3 ft gauge was more common on industrial lines than you might suppose. Having tried 32mm gauge Peco track, I found(1) that it needs to be fixed to firm foundations to work and (2) that the gauge tends to narrow if you bend it to too sharp (3ft rad). This meant my locos couldn't pull trains round the curves. I've changed to 45mm gauge G scale set-track, which works fine laid on coarse horticultural grit on top of weed-suppressing membrane (Note- not pea gravel which is too smooth-edged). But you're probably less cack-handed than me.<br /><br />Narrow gauge doesn't need lots of rolling stock or sidings, as trains will be short. A scale train of one or two coaches or half a dozen wagons is enough to be convincing. If you opt for live steam the buzz you get is from actually driving it as little steam locos love going downhill and hate going up. Shunting is more controllable when the boiler is half-used and the cylinders etc at full working temperature. And you won't need to build much scenery, which for me is a definite plus.<br /><br />The big thing about live steam is that it has grin factor by the bucketload!<br /><br /><br /><br />

[tetsudofan]

...be careful now, expanding out into the garden into narrow gauge can be addictive....Got hooked on such things in G-Scale after visits to the Isle of Man Steam Railway, the Harzer Schmalspurbahnen in Germany and the RhB in Switzerland.

 

Maybe the Isle of Man Steam Railway would be a good start:

 

 

......but that could lead to the Harzer Schmalspurbahnen:

 

 

.....or the mainline narrow gauge RhB

 

 

 

All the stuff runs on 45mm track but the body-size scale differs for 2ft, 2ft 6in, 3ft, 760mm and metre gauge

 

 

Whatever you decide enjoy!!

 

Keith

[cromptonnut]

If you're looking at a larger scale, the Association of Larger Scale Railway Modellers may be of interest to you.  http://www.alsrm.org.uk/

 

You don't say where in the country you are but they have a show in May in Reading.  Details are also listed of a Leicestershire based event in October on their website.

Edited July 29, 2013 by cromptonnut

[fallen]

Seb,

 

Just starting to look at this idea myself. Going to an exhibition is an ideal way to get a feel for the sizes of the different scales, failing that the 16mm association have a series of open days although you may have to join to go.

 

On the subject of track and curves, Peco do set track in SM32 which I assume is more gauge consistent than flexitrack for sharper curves.

 

Frank

[PaulRhB]

Battery control is easily viable in O16.5 (1:43 O scale on 16.5 mm track representing 2ft 3in gauge) but it depends what prototype as to what you can fit in. Even small locos can fit it in but its batteries that eat the space. Look at rc systems like

deltang, http://www.deltang.co.uk/

Red Arrow http://www.redarrowcontrol.co.uk/

or Cliff Barker http://www.cliffbarker.talktalk.net/speedcontroller.html

Peco do O16.5 track and points that are uv resistant too but twigs and bird droppings are big obstacles

16mm scale(1:19th really) on 32mm track is common as is G scale as shown by Keith above which cover a whole host of scales on 45mm track.

Look at IP engineering for some excellent budget kits for either gauge.

http://www.ipengineering.co.uk/

Also consider the Piko (German company) and Bachmann Thomas ranges in G scale as good basis for modifying to narrow gauge prototypes at reasonable prices.

[fallen]

Seb,

 

There is a thread elsewhere on the forum on radio control. I have used the DelTang electronics in 009 so O-16.5 or 16mm should not be a problem:

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/64616-battery-poweredradio-controlled-locos/page-5

 

For 009 the batteries were LiPo as used in model aircraft. These should be OK for O-16.5 too. In 16mm, battery power is common using AA cells or similar.

 

Frank

[Donw]

There are lots of options for outdoor railways. This is 16mm live steam this is my Roundhouse Katie radio controlled gas fired steam engine running on Phil Cooper 45mm gauge line. The loco has adjustable wheelsets so it can run on either 32mm or 45mm lines

 

Don

[Matthew Cousins]

Having gone fine scale 7mm with 2 rail track feed electric supply, I'm beginning to wonder if a coarser or larger scale might have been easier outdoors.

Not that I'm unhappy with my layout, far from it, but it is a lot of work to get finescale track right outdoors (+ all locos need compensation unless the track is perfectly level) and perhaps radio control might have been better too.

Good luck with your venture!

Matthew

[coronach]

Does anyone still produce coarse scale brass rail and chairs suitable for 32mm gauge track?

[ColinK]

Hi, some thoughts from my personal experience.

 

One of my friends has a OO track in his garden. Just a large circle on wooden battens, no points. It runs well and its nice to sit there and watch 10 coach trains run round.

 

Another friend had a 32mm gauge garden railway, just an oval of track, running radio controlled live steam. Great fun and a nice garden feature.

 

I had a LGB layout in my garden for the last 10 years. I say had because I removed it last month as we were about to move house. I used LGB track laid on stone chippings. I like the large size of the LGB models and they fit in well with the plants. Control was by LGB's MTS system (effectivly DCC) using wireless controllers. I found the MTS system to be excellent with the base station in the conservatory with just two wires to the rails. All points were electric controlled by decoders hidden in buildings taking their power from the rails. I even had a reverse loop with the DCC module to control it. I had only one electrical problem in 10 years when the reverse loop modue went up in smoke due to an operator caused short circuit while 5 twin motor locos were running! Digital sound in the locos and lights in the coaches and buildings really enhanced it all.

 

While all the LGB track and stock was expensive (far more so now) it was all very reliable and robust. My 2-10-2 tank loco and coaches took a curve too fast and all plumeted off an embankment without any damage.I have one much cheaper loco (Piko) and it has been fase economy as it is very unreliable.

 

The layout was desgned to blend into the garden and just about everyone who saw it said it actually enhanced the garden. This meant the domestic authorites were quite happy for me to extend it. This success was really due to joining the G-Scale Society which gave me the opportunity to visit other garden railways, see what I liked (and what I didn't like) and learn from others experience. I remember visiting one member's house, it was pouring down and we were inside looking at the garden - you could't actually see the railway as it was so well blended in.

 

My orignal track plan was terminus to reverse loop and back to the terminus. The worked fine but was very much a line you had to operate. When extended, it became a complete circle round the garden (plus the terminus and reverse loop) which meant I could sit in the garden in the evening and relax with a pint as trains circled the garden - really enjoyable. The things I disliked were, first the stock lived in the house and had to be carried outside before I could run anything, second was track cleaning - I had quite a bit of track and cleaning it took at least 30mins before I could run anything - this reduced the number of times I ran trains.

 

Based on my experiences, I would go for large scale models (O scale or larger), a simple trackplan (continous run with a loop and a couple of sidings) and designed to blend into the garden. Either live steam or electric with DCC sound and lights. Ideally, if electric I would have radio controlled battery powered DCC locos - if that's possible. But its your railway, so its your choice.

 

Hope ths helps.

[SebBarrow]

Thanks everyone for the very helpful advice and ideas.  Been very busy getting our house sorted after moving in, so apologies I haven't replied until now.

 

I potentially have a supply of handmade O-gauge track available, one of the reasons why the gauge choice was simple.  Over the last few weeks I have been doing a fair bit of reading & research about 16mm scale railways, and I've actually got someone sending me pictures of items of rolling stock they're looking to sell.  However my concern is that this scale may slightly too large.  I've also been in correspondence with someone who models in 1:24 scale using 32mm track, mainly with heavily converted Faller e-train and Playtrain rolling stock, plus some 'rubber scale' items such as Big Big Train shunters, etc.  (Out of interest, does anyone know what scale the Big Big Train 0-4-0 shunter actually is?  Obviously larger than 7mm/foot, but not as big as 16mm I think.  Somewhere around 1:24-1:30 perhaps?)

 

Does anyone have any experience of converting LGB rolling stock (locos and/or coaches/wagons) to run on 32mm gauge track?  I like much of the European metre-gauge stock and it appears to be the appropriate size to be aiming for, but I'm wanting to build a railway that represents 2ft 6in gauge.  (Think Zillertalbahn coaches running on the Welshpool & Llanfair Railway.)  

 

I'm also needing to find out how easy it is to convert 2-rail electric powered locos to manual battery operation, can anyone provide any advice?

 

As always, comments and advice very appreciated.

 

Many thanks!

Seb

[PaulRhB]

Converting LGB to 32mm is possible especially on the stock with plastic axles with a metal insert. Push out the metal rod cut the axle in two places so the back to back is slightly under that required, push them back on the metal axle and secure with araldite using a block set to the required back to back. Converting locos would mean a total new chassis. Accucraft stock comes with 32 and 45 axles.

Converting two rail to battery is easy as long as you have enough room for batteries. The receivers are tiny. Basically find space for batteries and electronics, cut off contacts from pickups to motor and replace with wires from speed control rc unit.

[coronach]

Nicholas Trudgeon uses battery power for all of his G scale - non steam locos. He found that electric power was unreliable in the garden on lines used by steam locos.  Batteries are carried in a wagon coupled to the loco and connected using dolls-house plugs.  He explains it in his book, which is often available in remainder shops but is still available from Atlantic:

 

Garden Railway Adventure - Nicholas Trudigan

Author Nicholas Trudgian's professional artistic skills, his acquired expertise in garden scale civil engineering, his love of landscape and innate feel for things mechanical, has driven the construction of this expansive garden railway tour de force over a number of years. The Southern Cross Railway draws inspiration from many different steam powered railways across the world where the author has not only travelled on trains, but has driven and fired locomotives as well. The building of this impressive garden line which employs both live steam and electric motive power, is fully documented within these pages, supported not only by the author's accessible and enjoyable writing style and the many photographs of the railway as it's neared competition, but also by the author's superbly drafted design and constructional artwork. With these pages are sections on layout design, permanent way construction, track laying, landscaping, tunnels, bridges, water features and planting. The combination of sound construction and an eye for railways in the landscape has produced a fully believable railway landscape that melds, as you will see from the photographs, imperceptibly into the surrounding Gloucestershire countryside. The resulting garden railway is therefore a credible combination of art, engineering and experience that all of us, whatever out preferred garden scale, can draw on when turning the pages of this thoroughly engaging, imaginative and instructive book

 

 

[PaulRhB]

Yep Nick Trudigans railway and the book are a classic that deserve wider exposure.

[Donw]

Your concerns about the size are misplaced many of the 16mm models are of smaller prototypes eg. TalyLlyn or Festiniog whereas the LGB ones are of German Metre gauge or similar and end up much the same size. If you can make the Garden railway show at Exeter in Oct will feature most garden railway sizes.

Don

[SebBarrow]

I will look at trying to attend Exeter, thanks for the heads up.

[Donw]

For those interested try

http://www.exetergardenrailwayshow.com

 

Don

[298]

I've just found this topic after a search for Somesay, and was wondering if the OP has any updates....?

 

I have a circle of SM32 in the garden with an evolving trackplan, and have found I can run anything on it from battery toys to finescale O and 16mm live steam- basically anything that is self propelled.

 

The latest acquisition is a Faller Railbus- they're dirt cheap and fairly close to 1:19 or 20.3 as not to cause offence. The automatic reversing is particularly fun when operating as an end to end layout.

[SebBarrow]

The OP is happy to give an update on the progress made.

 

Decided to settle on a 'flexible' scale of between 1:19 and 1:24, with choices of rolling stock being based on mainly the width of items available and whether it all looks correct together. (If anyone asks, the gauge of the fictional prototype is 2ft 3in, with no measuring tools permitted near the garden!)

 

However visible progress has been mainly in the construction department. I decided the railway needed to be a useful 18 inches off the ground adjacent to the potting shed that will ultimately house the loco shed and sidings at one end of the line, and the terminal station at the other. The line will meander around the edge of the garden, at a gradient of about 1:45 to maintain a reasonable operating height. To date, about 20ft of timber 'table' and half a rockery have been constructed, with output depending on the weekend weather forecast and completion of some professional coursework and exams recently. However my thoughts are turning to track (which I intend to build myself) and rolling stock again. Of the latter, AnDel Models seem to be producing some very reasonably priced, simple (and narrow!) rolling stock which is worth a look. As my ultimate maximum width of stock is likely to be in the 125mm region, I suspect I will be making several visits to their website over the next couple of years.

 

I also have some very solid ideas about signalling with block bells, but perhaps more in the future about that! Don't wish to get ahead of myself. I am very surprised about what is being achieved with little outlay; the amount of free material available for use in construction is much greater if you ask around...

Edited June 13, 2014 by SebBarrow

[lancer1027]

Hi Seb,

 

I am in the process of building my first ever Garden Railway and i have opted for O gauge and chosen the radio controlled option. ( of course there are lots of choices open to you ) .

 

I decided on radio control because you dont need to worry about wiring any track. The system i am using is A1Micromotive for the radio controlled if you wish to take a look at his website. Although there are again other options.

 

Rob

[SteamLover]

I realise the answer is probably 'as long as a piece of string' but can anyone give me any sort of idea of how much money i'd be looking to invest to achieve a basic outdoor layout?

thanks in advance.