Kowloon Canton Railway... a proposal

[m0rris]

source: http://www.flickr.com/photos/ngkungyee/3255112994/

 

Having found myself with plenty of thinking time and stumbling across a reasonably priced KCR Austerity on ebay, unfortunately too late, it got me thinking about modelling the KCR, which has to my knowledge not been done so far. The system was operated during the 1950s by a combination of G12 diesel locos and and a dwindling collection of 2-8-0 Austerities as pictured above. Bachmann produced a suitable Austerity with assorted modification and bizarrely the Frateschi G12 is acceptably close to 00, and not HO as advertised.

 

Consequently, I am very tempted to recreate the KCR... the only stumbling block seems to be the rolling stock, its very reminiscent of the colonial rolling stock seen across Africa and Asia where British companies were tasked with producing wagons and carriages, I have even found references to Cravens producing coaches for the KCR. However, I wouldn't know where to start so before I commit any money to this one I need to find some more information/sources for the rolling stock...

 

The background material of buildings can be scratchbuilt and the roads and tramsways can be easily populated by the bounty of British and Hong Kong models in 1/76 which makes this project ever more tempting.

 

What do RMWebbers think? Have I lost the plot or is there potential to model more than just Hong Kong's tramways in 00?

 

 

[roundhouse]

I think it's a superb idea although can't help you with info on the coaches etc as know very little about it apart from travelling on the line from the relocated terminus in the last year of British rule.

If you could do the harbour backscene then I am sure it will have an appeal if you make it as an exhibition layout.

Ian

Edited July 13, 2013 by roundhouse

[PhilJ W]

Try finding a copy of 'The Railways and Tramways of Hong Kong' by Wilfred F. Simms  (ISBN 0 9528881 5 7). This covers the post steam era but describes the locomotives in some detail and also has some pretty good drawings of the same. A lot of the railways stock was of Australian manufacture.

[Railtunes]

I'm planning to do a KCR "Austerity" WD in N scale, detailing and repainting the Bachmann Graham Farish N scale model - or maybe trying to convince Bachmann to do it as a limited run model, since they already have done the OO version!

 

I've attached a compilation of some passenger car drawings I found on line. The link is shown on it as well. These might at least give you a reference for further researching possible "stand-ins" on conversion model possibilities or as a basis for scratchbuilding, and there is no doubt some British or Japanese chassis that would be a proper fit for these.

 

I know that the railway museum at the old Tai Po Market station has a couple of coaches on display, and wonder if they might have any drawing, photos or other data available for these that could be used for modeling. Might be worth a try, especially if you still have some contacts in Hong Kong that might be willing to enquire on your behalf.

 

And, of course, there's the Frateschi G112 repaint of the G12 in OO (sort of) scale.

 

Should you find anything, be sure to share it here, please! I'm sorry I can't help you with locating the Simms book, but you can be assured that I will now go hunting for it!

 

Paul Ingraham, Coordinator, AsiaNRail N scale modular group

 

Kowloon Canton Railway Coach Drawings.doc

[m0rris]

Thnkas for those they look to be very useful. Unfortunately, as it stands there has been no progress with this project, a new job and house move has distracted me these past few months. However, modelling the KCR does still stand as a long term objective and I will be sure to post any progress here!

[m0rris]

After a fit of madness I now seem to own a KCR Austerity...

[jsp3970]

After a fit of madness I now seem to own a KCR Austerity...

Care to post some pics? I lived in Hong Kong from 1981 to 1985 and rode the KCR quite often, even got to ride through from China once. I always wanted to model the KCR but at the time models were none existent.

[HK 67]

I lived in Fanling New Territories in 1967- 68. My father was attached to a Gurkha regiment out there. Our home was just up the road from the station, I rode the trains regularly and was privileged to know most of the drivers and staff. As they all liked me, I always made them laugh. I was allowed to go where and when I wanted, even ridding on the front of the locos. I never needed a ticket and was never asked for one unless I took the whole trip down to Kowloon. I knew the railway well. Trains were mostly the old type passenger cars, green with black verandas and rotating fans inside the cars. There were lost of pig trains from China, very smelly as they went through. I remember once seeing two steel cars with top hatches put in the back siding full of seawater which was leaking out of the rivet holes. Kids were diving down the hatches pulling out the live fish, big ones at that and then throwing them down to be caught in the baskets below. Lots of good memories from that time. I did start to build a model of the Canton railway but it stopped last year as I am also building a model of Barnstable Junction, the place of my birth. The old Taw Viaduct Bridge and Ilfracombe Station, a 25 feet long, 50 feet in all, and modelling it in fine-scale, so it's lots of work. Here are some of the Kowloon bits of the railway about 1957. The Royal Artillery is being sent up to Low Woo to keep the Red Guards at bay as they always seemed to be causing trouble, and are to this day. Tim.S.

 

 

Pictures:

 

 

 

Edited December 16, 2018 by HK 67

[tetsudofan]

Hi there, interesting posting, I was living and working in Hong Kong from September 1966 to January 1968 just overlapping you when the KCR ran all the way down to the Star Ferry in Kowloon. Made a couple of trips on the KCR during that time but can't remember taking any photos at that time, if I did they would have been on slides.

 

You mention 1957 in your posting but think you may mean 1967. Apart from working for The Chartered Bank I was also in the Marine Division of the Hong Kong Auxiliary Police Force and I remember one Saturday in 1967 when we were mobilised because of Red Guard trouble up on the border. The plan was that the HKAP would take over policing the harbour releasing the regular Marine HKP to form a land-based riot control squad. We were not normally armed but that day we were!! Not having had much weapons training wasn't keen on being armed so kept the bullets in my pocket away from the firearm!!

 

One of my colleagues in the bank also had some connection with the military and can remember a trip out to the New Territories with him and spending a pleasant afternoon in the Gurkha Officers Mess. Its a small world.

 

Keith

[HK 67]

Hi Keith, Thanks for your reply.  Hong Kong was a great place to live, in the 60's, and yes, you are right, there was trouble with the Red Guards at the border. In 1967 they killed 12 Hong Kong police officers and took over their station at the border. Our Gurkhas were sent in to restore order. It did not take long to retake the station.  It ended a little messy for the perpetrators…Lots of small bombs were planted that year, and there were riots in Kowloon, and police officers were also killed. In and about the same time my father was there, when at a border fence discussion with six Red Guards, regarding sending work parties to go to no mans land for repairs to the border fence. When a Red Guard thought it would be funny to try and remove the machine gun from one my fathers Gurkha escorts, the second Gurkha with him drew his Kukris and removed the arm of the attacking Red Guard. Arm and gun dropped to the floor…also a little messy! It would be a total dishonour for a Gurkha to be disarmed. The Gurkhas motto “ Better To Die Than Be A Coward “. Two of these Kukris are now on my living room wall. …PS: Keith, not many of us old colonials are around today to tell these stories!   Tim.S.

 

 

Edited December 22, 2018 by HK 67

[TEAMYAKIMA]

After a fit of madness I now seem to own a KCR Austerity...

 

Any progress? I model China in 2004 - just the last QJs and industrials - and so am very interested anything steam era in China/HK.

 

Here's my thread...……………...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87250-beijiao-a-chinese-ho-exhibition-layout/?hl=beijiao

Edited January 20, 2019 by TEAMYAKIMA

[m0rris]

On 20/01/2019 at 13:47, TEAMYAKIMA said:

 

Any progress? I model China in 2004 - just the last QJs and industrials - and so am very interested anything steam era in China/HK.

 

Here's my thread...……………...

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/87250-beijiao-a-chinese-ho-exhibition-layout/?hl=beijiao

Unfortunately not, space restraints have seen my efforts focused on N gauge at the moment but Hong Kong is still in the long term plans!

[Tony Lui]

On 2018/12/10 at PM12點21分, HK 67 said:

我於1967-68年居住在新界粉嶺。我父親隸屬於那兒的一個廓爾喀軍團。我們的家就在火車站的路上，我定期騎火車，很榮幸認識大多數的司機和工作人員。因為他們都喜歡我，所以我總是讓他們笑。我被允許去我想去的地方和時間，甚至躲在火車頭的前面。除非我將整個行程帶到了九龍，否則我從不需要票，也從來不需要票。我對鐵路很了解。火車大多是老式的客車，車廂內是綠色的，帶有黑色的陽台和旋轉的風扇。丟失了從中國來的豬火車，它們經過時非常臭。我記得曾經見過兩輛帶有高艙口蓋的鋼製汽車放在後壁，裡面裝滿海水，這些海水從鉚釘孔中漏出。孩子們在孵化場上潛水，撈出了活魚，那是大魚，然後將它們扔下來，放在下面的籃子裡。從那時起很多美好的回憶。我確實開始建立廣州鐵路的模型，但由於我還在建立我出生地Barnstable Junction的模型而在去年停止。古老的Taw高架橋和Ilfracombe站長25英尺，總長50英尺，並且按比例進行了建模，因此工作量很大。以下是約1957年鐵路的一些九龍鑽頭。皇家砲兵正被送往低窩，以防備紅衛兵，因為他們似乎總是在惹麻煩，而且直到今天。蒂姆·S。我確實開始建立廣州鐵路的模型，但由於我還在建立我出生地Barnstable Junction的模型而在去年停止。古老的Taw高架橋和Ilfracombe站長25英尺，總長50英尺，並且按比例進行了建模，因此工作量很大。以下是約1957年鐵路的一些九龍鑽頭。皇家砲兵正被送往低窩，以防備紅衛兵，因為他們似乎總是在惹麻煩，而且直到今天。蒂姆·S。我確實開始建立廣州鐵路的模型，但由於我還在建立我出生地Barnstable Junction的模型而在去年停止。古老的Taw高架橋和Ilfracombe站長25英尺，總長50英尺，並且按比例進行了建模，因此工作量很大。以下是約1957年鐵路的一些九龍鑽頭。皇家砲兵正被送往低窩，以防備紅衛兵，因為他們似乎總是在惹麻煩，而且直到今天。蒂姆·S。皇家砲兵部隊被派往低地，以使紅色警衛隊一直陷於困境，因為它們似乎一直在製造麻煩，直到今天。蒂姆·S。皇家砲兵部隊被派往低地，以使紅色警衛隊一直陷於困境，因為它們似乎一直在製造麻煩，直到今天。蒂姆·S。

 

 

圖片：

 

 

 

amazing 犀利

[PhilJ W]

 

Translation of the above.

I lived in Fanling, New Territories from 1967-68. My father belongs to a Gurkha regiment there. Our home is on the way to the railway station. I ride the train regularly and I am honoured to know most of the drivers and staff. Because they all like me, I always make them laugh. I was allowed to go where and when I wanted to go, even hiding in front of the locomotive. Unless I take the entire trip to Kowloon, I never need a ticket, and I never need a ticket. I know very well about railways. Most of the trains are old-fashioned passenger cars, the inside of which is green, with black balconies and rotating fans. I lost the pig train from China. They smelled very bad when they passed by. I remember seeing two steel cars with high hatches placed on the back wall and filled with sea water, which leaked from the rivet holes. The children dived in the hatchery and fished out live fish, which are big fish, and then threw them down and put them in the basket below. Many good memories since then. I did start to build a model of the Guangzhou Railway, but since I am still building Barnstable Junction, my birthplace. The model was discontinued last year. The ancient Taw viaduct and the Ilfracombe station are 25 feet long and 50 feet long, and they are modelled to scale, so the workload is huge. The following are some Kowloon drill bits from the railway around 1957. The Royal Artillery is being sent to the low nest to guard against the Red Guards, because they always seem to be in trouble, and to this day. Tim S. I did start to build a model of the Guangzhou Railway, but stopped last year because I was still building a model of Barnstable Junction where I was born. The ancient Taw viaduct and the Ilfracombe station are 25 feet long and 50 feet long, and they are modelled to scale, so the workload is huge. The following are some Kowloon drill bits from the railway around 1957. The Royal Artillery is being sent to the low nest to guard against the Red Guards, because they always seem to be in trouble, and to this day. Tim S. The Royal Artillery troops were sent to the lowlands to keep the Red Guards in trouble because they seemed to be causing trouble until today. Tim S. The Royal Artillery troops were sent to the lowlands to keep the Red Guards in trouble because they seemed to be causing trouble until today. Tim S.

Edited April 20, 2021 by PhilJ W

[m0rris]

So, things may be going somewhere now but I have a question for RMWeb to see if you could help - I am looking into doing a G12 to be 3D printed but the KCR versions are somewhat unique due to their slightly extended frames. Does anyone know of any drawings that exist for these Clyde build oddities that could help?

Edited May 3, 2021 by m0rris

[wongm]

I've been working on a 2010s-era KCR East Rail layout in N scale using T-Trak modules - I've attached some photos, my website with more details is here.

 

https://www.checkerboardhill.com/2023/04/more-on-my-hong-kong-model-railway/

 

My current rolling stock are a static Del Prado China Railways DF11 diesel and SS8 electric that I've motorised, hauling ready to run China Railways rolling stock - some more about the options here:

 

https://jnsforum.com/community/topic/13736-people’s-republic-of-china-n-scale-trains/

 

The Hong Kong buses and local-style buildings are by 80M Bus Model Shop.

 

https://www.checkerboardhill.com/2020/10/hong-kong-bus-models-for-every-budget/

 

I've also got a KCR EMU G16 and G26 from Shapeways that I've got to finish off:

 

https://www.shapeways.com/product/WJS43F4L8/g16-kcr-70-s-version-1-150

https://www.shapeways.com/product/ZZNLKTS4D/g26-kcr-70-s-version-1-160

 

A 3-car Metro Cammel EMU kit from here:

 

https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100063937650661

As well as a Victorian Railways EMD G8 model which is about the same length as a KCR G12, which I'm planning to kitbash details added to look the part.

[jjb1970]

N seems to be growing in China, for a long time the hobby was largely confined to HO but now companies like Kunter and Changming are making some lovely N RTR. Given that urban China is largely apartment homes N would seem a more sensible scale for the domestic market, as with Japan.

 

[TEAMYAKIMA]

3 hours ago, jjb1970 said:

N seems to be growing in China, for a long time the hobby was largely confined to HO but now companies like Kunter and Changming are making some lovely N RTR. Given that urban China is largely apartment homes N would seem a more sensible scale for the domestic market, as with Japan.

 

I agree. TBH I have always been surprised that HO was the prominent scale - with small apartments in China, who was buying all that HO?  Originally, I guess, foreign collectors, but for China-based enthusiasts HO seemed the wrong choice and yet every HO model seems to sell out very quickly.

[m0rris]

Thanks for the nudge on this all... So my plans are slowly but surely rumbling forwards. I have the G12 modelled in N gauge but haven't yet printed it as KCR isn't at the top of the to do list at the moment. I also have stumbled on some Kitson technical drawings for a loco very similar to the KCR Kitson tank engines and will be using this as the basis of a 3d model for printing of the original tank engines used on the line. My medium term plan is to then assemble a small rake of KCR stock including a converted Austerity, the G12 and Kitson.