RMweb Premium dale159 Posted October 21, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 21, 2017 I like those units, used to travel a lot on them in the Thames valley. Will you be eyeing up the Bachmann class 117 when it comes out ? Hi Rob Not immediately, maybe a few years down the road, I'm quite happy with my Limby ones, which reminds me I must finish of the transfers on my blue grey one which is currently in my room gathering dust. I'm not a fan of doing transfers, several projects I've started seem to have ground to a halt at the transfers stage! Dale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Tim Posted October 22, 2017 Share Posted October 22, 2017 Thanks Tim. Sorry for the slow reply, I understand what you are saying. The thing with this layout is that it's half western region and half southern region so signalling principles might be looked upon differently between the two, that said the would signalling system would be controlled by a single signal box or panel so would more likely be Western region given that they are the operators of the through lines. I agree with you thoughts for simplifying the shunt signal route indicators down to 'C' and 'E' of maybe I might change it to 'H' for Headshunt. Dale Seemed pretty speedy to me. Reckon you'll need to decide on either Southern or Western style signalling. As you say it would probably be the operator of the through line as per Exeter St Davids pre 1964. But then maybe if it has Southern Region electrification it would need to Southern Region S&T as they would have necessary expertise of dealing with any complications from the 750DC? If so go with your original Junction indicators. Don't know if you have seen this website (came across it in another thread) http://dickthesignals.co.uk/. There BRB Signalling Manual content would be very relevant. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted October 22, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 22, 2017 You might also want to place an additional position light on the line running from Platform 3 for shunt moves to reverse behind - there are lots of these at locations throughout Devon, Drew up suggestions whilst waiting for a train: I like the idea of the ground signal for a shunt on the down main from platform 3 into the 3rd rail platforms, I think I will do that but I might move it back behind the facing crossover. RE which region controls the signalling the nearest example that springs to mind is what used to be platforms 4a and 4b now 4,5&6 at Reading although in practice those platforms are a separate entity from the rest of Reading station Dale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted October 24, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 24, 2017 Here's an example of a signalling oddity. At Exeter Central on the left platform 2's E315 with feather and on the right the rarely used platform 1's E415 without feather yet just beyond the bridge these two tracks have exactly the same routing option Dale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Turbo_Tim Posted October 24, 2017 Share Posted October 24, 2017 Yes - that is another location which illustrates the point. E315 is the end of bidirectional working and again the WR seem to have been keen on Junction Indicators in this scenario. You'll see the same at Teignmouth (west end of the up main platform), Taunton (gantry east of the station) and Newton Abbott. It would be interesting to hear an S&T view on all this - St Simon and Stationmaster would probably be very good people to provide a more professional view on this. Driver's learn what is there and obey it; but aren't privy to the design decisions behind this kind of thing. I think this is something I have either discussed or read at some point along the line. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted October 26, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 26, 2017 Evening, I've been toying with a couple of ideas in the signalling department. Platform 1 is quite straightforward, I filled the platform with 5 mk3s which left me with about 6 inches spare so a decent amount of space to place a signal without it being crammed in right at the end. Of course I could have a gantry with an arm either side with to give platform 2 a signal in the reverse direction perhaps with a feather similar to E315 and E415 at Exeter Central. The tricky one is platform 3, I have positioned the HST with the TGS door right up to the end of the platform, this way the rear power car of a 2+8 is clear of the scissor crossing on the lift out board. The problem then is the starting signal ought to be ahead of the front of the train so mounting it on the platform isn't possible and as can be seen in the picture there isn't much room on the ground to have a signal on a post, so instead I thought I would have a road bridge across the layout at this location (also convenient for hiding the electric lines going off scene) upon which I could place a signal on a small gantry. Although I will be using colour light signals I may even paint a white patch on the bridge behind as a siting aid for a previous semaphore signal as there are still many of these visible on the railway today even if the associated signal has been replaced with a colour light. I have been looking for prototype pictures of similar arrangements but so far I've not found any, any links to such photos would be much appreciated. Dale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted October 26, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 26, 2017 Something like that from track level (Would a steel Girder bridge have a white patch for semaphore signal siting painted on it?) Dale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Yes - that is another location which illustrates the point. E315 is the end of bidirectional working and again the WR seem to have been keen on Junction Indicators in this scenario. You'll see the same at Teignmouth (west end of the up main platform), Taunton (gantry east of the station) and Newton Abbott. It would be interesting to hear an S&T view on all this - St Simon and Stationmaster would probably be very good people to provide a more professional view on this. Driver's learn what is there and obey it; but aren't privy to the design decisions behind this kind of thing. I think this is something I have either discussed or read at some point along the line. Hi, I just was idling flicking through this thread and just caught the above comment, if you wish, I can have a look through and provide comment on the signalling, but I would need to know the operational requirements (which you may have already covered and I haven't read) Simon 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted October 26, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 26, 2017 Hi, I just was idling flicking through this thread and just caught the above comment, if you wish, I can have a look through and provide comment on the signalling, but I would need to know the operational requirements (which you may have already covered and I haven't read) Simon Hi Simon When you say operational requirements, I'm not looking to have train detection or interlocking or anything like I have seen you have on your layout, just to keep it simple with a series of switches on the control panel, I was mostly looking for advise on signal location and which ones should have feathers or route indicators including shunt signals and such like. Dale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
St. Simon Posted October 26, 2017 Share Posted October 26, 2017 Hi Simon When you say operational requirements, I'm not looking to have train detection or interlocking or anything like I have seen you have on your layout, just to keep it simple with a series of switches on the control panel, I was mostly looking for advise on signal location and which ones should have feathers or route indicators including shunt signals and such like. Dale Sorry, I meant as in train movements and what trains will go where, as this will effect what signalling you need. Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted October 26, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 26, 2017 Sorry, I meant as in train movements and what trains will go where, as this will effect what signalling you need. Simon Ok, it's fairly straightforward, track plan and my thoughts towards the bottom of the previous page - http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/73981-brixington-town-signalling-problems/?p=2891192 Dale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 5BarVT Posted October 27, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 27, 2017 I have been looking for prototype pictures of similar arrangements but so far I've not found any, any links to such photos would be much appreciated.Carstairs Junction has a pair Down Loop and Down Main (Northbound) mounted off the footbridge. A search for Carstairs Station brings up a few photos where they appear in the background of shots.Paul. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 28, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2017 Yes - that is another location which illustrates the point. E315 is the end of bidirectional working and again the WR seem to have been keen on Junction Indicators in this scenario. You'll see the same at Teignmouth (west end of the up main platform), Taunton (gantry east of the station) and Newton Abbott. It would be interesting to hear an S&T view on all this - St Simon and Stationmaster would probably be very good people to provide a more professional view on this. Driver's learn what is there and obey it; but aren't privy to the design decisions behind this kind of thing. I think this is something I have either discussed or read at some point along the line. You have answered it Tim. During the 1980s there was a decision to provide junction indicators on reversibly signalled lines where the only option for a train travelling in the wrong direction was to rejoin the correct line via a crossover. This was decided on in order to cater for the situations where some Drivers had become confused approaching such signals and thought they were going 'straight route' and hence took the turnout too fast. I don't think these 'over speeds' ever led to a derailment but there were a number of hair raising examples hence the provision of a JI. Somewhere I've got what was probably one of the first, if not the first, facilities drawings produced showing this principle and it was drawn to formalise my initial sketches for Worcester resignalling back in 1984. Whether it is still a standard procedure I don't know - but Simon will (although I think it is) but it was applied during the West of England resignalling schemes at Westbury and Exeter irrespective of turnout speeds plus alterations on the then WR reversibly signalled routes.. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted October 28, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2017 Carstairs Junction has a pair Down Loop and Down Main (Northbound) mounted off the footbridge. A search for Carstairs Station brings up a few photos where they appear in the background of shots. Paul. Thank you Paul. A quick google has come up with this photo looking up at the mountings of the gantry on the underside of the bridge, very useful image. Dale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted October 28, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2017 (edited) You have answered it Tim. During the 1980s there was a decision to provide junction indicators on reversibly signalled lines where the only option for a train travelling in the wrong direction was to rejoin the correct line via a crossover. This was decided on in order to cater for the situations where some Drivers had become confused approaching such signals and thought they were going 'straight route' and hence took the turnout too fast. I don't think these 'over speeds' ever led to a derailment but there were a number of hair raising examples hence the provision of a JI. Somewhere I've got what was probably one of the first, if not the first, facilities drawings produced showing this principle and it was drawn to formalise my initial sketches for Worcester resignalling back in 1984. Whether it is still a standard procedure I don't know - but Simon will (although I think it is) but it was applied during the West of England resignalling schemes at Westbury and Exeter irrespective of turnout speeds plus alterations on the then WR reversibly signalled routes.. Thank you Mike. I believe the whole of the Exeter Central area is a blanket 30mph area rising to 70mph on the Up Waterloo line by the Pennsylvania Road overbridge with a 15mph limit in and out of the bay. Dale Edited October 28, 2017 by dale159 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 28, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 28, 2017 441.jpg Something like that from track level (Would a steel Girder bridge have a white patch for semaphore signal siting painted on it?) Dale Chester had LNWR lower quadrants mounted on a bridge, replaced by colour lights on the same bridge and now the heads are LEDs - still on the same bridge LNWR https://www.chesterwalls.info/chesterpics5/Chester%20Station%20C1956.jpg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted October 28, 2017 Share Posted October 28, 2017 Thank you Mike. I believe the whole of the Exeter Central area is a blanket 30mph area rising to 70mph on the Up Waterloo line by the Pennsylvania Road overbridge with a 15mph limit in and out of the bay. Dale Dale, Strangely the crossover is 40 MPH. Similarly at Newton Abbot the X-overs are 40 and wrong direction moves are 40 so there should be no mistake there either. U & D Mains only at NA are 60. Kev 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted October 28, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 28, 2017 Chester had LNWR lower quadrants mounted on a bridge, replaced by colour lights on the same bridge and now the heads are LEDs - still on the same bridge LNWR https://www.chesterwalls.info/chesterpics5/Chester%20Station%20C1956.jpg That's excellent thank you. Would you be able to point me in the direction of a photo with the colour light signals on that gantry? Dale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted October 29, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 29, 2017 Quick hour in the garage this afternoon/evening doing signalling preparation work. 3rd rails have reached the carriage sidings (swaps sides briefly where the ground signal will be) need to buy another pack of insulator pots as I have run out. Then I marked out roughly where I thought the over bridge ought to go using a piece of 4x1 timber up on its end and cut away the cork so that it sits flat on the MDF top underneath. Dale 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold beast66606 Posted October 29, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 29, 2017 That's excellent thank you. Would you be able to point me in the direction of a photo with the colour light signals on that gantry? Dale These are more recent colour lights, the original colour lights were mounted on the bridge http://www.nwrail.org.uk/rh130928-45699-chester-x.jpg Earlier colour lights http://www.2d53.co.uk/chester/s1207.jpg 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted October 29, 2017 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted October 29, 2017 These are more recent colour lights, the original colour lights were mounted on the bridge http://www.nwrail.org.uk/rh130928-45699-chester-x.jpg Earlier colour lights http://www.2d53.co.uk/chester/s1207.jpg Excellent, many thanks. Dale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted February 16, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted February 16, 2018 Afternoon everyone. I'm still alive but I've done nothing to the layout since the last post in October. I have just ordered some working ground signals from here, so once these are in things should start moving again. I have also been working on some items of stock which I will post on here in due course when totally finished. Dale 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted March 1, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2018 Further to previous post. My Class 118 DMU is now finished, similar to my Network South East 117 it has had it second DMBS converted to a DMS, full respray to blue grey, Southeastern Finecast flushglazing throughout, Transfers mostly from Rail-tec with a few presfix and a Lighting kit from Black Cat Technologies on Ebay. The lighting kit is supplied with a pair of 3 pin connectors and suitably coloured wire for DCC, I have routed the connectors through the corridor connections, Unfortunately when I tested the unit I found the headlights illuminated on the rear of the unit (As the unit is powered by a Hornby 121 chassis I suspect Hornby deemed the motor end in the Brake compartment to be the No.1 end) I have now corrected this. I have also taken delivery of the Ground signals from Train Tech, (Sorry don't know why this picture is upside down) I think they look fantastic, and I still have the option to wire them up as the modern type with 2 red lights or the original type with a red and a white as the PCB board caters for both despite the 2 types being marketed separately. I might even look into making them switchable depending on the era of stock I'm running. I doubt I will brave the current weather forecast to see about fitting them just yet! Dale 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dale159 Posted March 1, 2018 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted March 1, 2018 Just to add on the subject of the lights in the 118. I retained the existing light lenses by sawing them off below windscreen level and then painted the fronts, top and side edges of what remained black to minimise light bleed, this also holds the front of the bodyshell down with a lug on the front of the chassis fitting into the hole in the middle. Dale Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tug002 Posted March 2, 2018 Share Posted March 2, 2018 (edited) Further to previous post. My Class 118 DMU is now finished, similar to my Network South East 117 it has had it second DMBS converted to a DMS, full respray to blue grey, Southeastern Finecast flushglazing throughout, Transfers mostly from Rail-tec with a few presfix and a Lighting kit from Black Cat Technologies on Ebay. P464_1.jpg P464_2.jpg P464_3.jpg P464_4.jpg P464_5.jpg The lighting kit is supplied with a pair of 3 pin connectors and suitably coloured wire for DCC, I have routed the connectors through the corridor connections, Unfortunately when I tested the unit I found the headlights illuminated on the rear of the unit (As the unit is powered by a Hornby 121 chassis I suspect Hornby deemed the motor end in the Brake compartment to be the No.1 end) I have now corrected this. I have also taken delivery of the Ground signals from Train Tech, 445.jpg (Sorry don't know why this picture is upside down) I think they look fantastic, and I still have the option to wire them up as the modern type with 2 red lights or the original type with a red and a white as the PCB board caters for both despite the 2 types being marketed separately. I might even look into making them switchable depending on the era of stock I'm running. I doubt I will brave the current weather forecast to see about fitting them just yet! Dale I see that one of the vehicles is 51321 - which became the only 118 vehicle preserved... Edited March 2, 2018 by Tug002 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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