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I'm on the lookout for late Victorian/early Edwardian goods vans, of any company for use as a test vehicle on my OO layout, because surprisingly enough I don't actually own anything that's not a loco/coach and I'm just about to embark on some fairly serious tracklaying. It seems the only affordable options widely available are the GWR Iron Mink A from Ratio and the Slaters MR 8-ton van. Any thoughts or ideas for an accurate, affordable van model for this period are greatly appreciated.

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18 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

I'm on the lookout for late Victorian/early Edwardian goods vans, of any company for use as a test vehicle on my OO layout, because surprisingly enough I don't actually own anything that's not a loco/coach and I'm just about to embark on some fairly serious tracklaying. It seems the only affordable options widely available are the GWR Iron Mink A from Ratio and the Slaters MR 8-ton van. Any thoughts or ideas for an accurate, affordable van model for this period are greatly appreciated.

 

Hi,

Taff Vale models do a Cambrian 6 ton van which is mainly plastic or resin, but now sells for £25.00 which I am sure is more than I paid for it, although that was a while ago.

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It depends on your definition of affordable. Most of the Small Supplier"specialist" kit producers of Victorian or Edwardian vans or wagons tend to manufacture in etched brass or cast resin which is invariably more expensive (Bill Bedford/Mousa Models, Roxey, London Road Models and others).

 

Plastic moulded kits are much cheaper but the range is, as you have found, much more limited.

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Why a covered goods wagon (to use the period terminology) anyway? They were relatively much less common than they were to become half a century later. Not that there's that much greater choice when it comes to opens, though there are the Ratio LNWR ones and Cambrian Models ones for various companies (depending on how pre-grouping you want to be) in addition to Slaters Midland wagons. For tracklaying and testing, I would have thought you would want to have it well weighted - up to 40 g - 50 g - rather than the < 20 g of an unweighted plastic kit wagon

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1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Plastic moulded kits are much cheaper but the range is, as you have found, much more limited.

Cheaper to buy.

Cheaper in production (if there are sufficient numbers required - typically x 1,000 or at least several hundred).

Much, much, much more expensive to develop and “tool up” prior to production.

 

Hence (as you know, Jol), the limited range.

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8 hours ago, Regularity said:

Much, much, much more expensive to develop and “tool up” prior to production.

 

That's why the returned Slaters range is priced as it is - the tooling costs were paid off long, long ago. 

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17 hours ago, ChrisN said:

 

Hi,

Taff Vale models do a Cambrian 6 ton van which is mainly plastic or resin, but now sells for £25.00 which I am sure is more than I paid for it, although that was a while ago.

There is also the long unavailable Model Wagon Company version too, if you can find one!

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13 hours ago, Compound2632 said:

Why a covered goods wagon (to use the period terminology) anyway? They were relatively much less common than they were to become half a century later. Not that there's that much greater choice when it comes to opens, though there are the Ratio LNWR ones and Cambrian Models ones for various companies (depending on how pre-grouping you want to be) in addition to Slaters Midland wagons. For tracklaying and testing, I would have thought you would want to have it well weighted - up to 40 g - 50 g - rather than the < 20 g of an unweighted plastic kit wagon

 

I'm modelling Holborn Viaduct (thread here: 

which was a secondary mainline station in the centre of London. I've done some research on the freight workings and it appears that the vast majority were newspapers and parcels, even early on at the turn of the century. Cattle vans were marshalled onto the newspaper trains, and there's a funny anecdote that fish vans aren't to be used for parcels unless absolutely neccesary - but I can find absolutely nothing at all on any regular or scheduled goods services. I would be really excited to hear about them, if that's possible?

 

I did not check London Road Models or Roxey, but that's a great shout.

 

Thank you!

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15 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

 

I'm modelling Holborn Viaduct

 

but I can find absolutely nothing at all on any regular or scheduled goods services. I would be really excited to hear about them, if that's possible?

 

 

 

Midland goods trains ran over the Widened Lines route and then through to Herne Hill for exchange traffic with the SECR and also to serve some of its South London coal depots. I suspect that the Great Northern may have done likewise.

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29 minutes ago, Compound2632 said:

 

Midland goods trains ran over the Widened Lines route and then through to Herne Hill for exchange traffic with the SECR and also to serve some of its South London coal depots. I suspect that the Great Northern may have done likewise.

 

Definitely. Behind a J50.

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But I think what he is after is Goods Trains actually into the platforms at Holborn Viaduct.

 

I am fairly sure that would just be parcels & newspaper traffic, handled mostly at night and in a wide variety of goods vans and NPCCS. In other places, there might be reasons to add cattle vans into the mix but it seems vanishingly unlikely at HV. The railways did all that they could to minimise transit time for cattle.

 

Fish traffic was certainly handled, at night, at Cannon St, and probably Blackfriars (St Paul's at OPs era) as they are both close to the old Billingsgate Market.

 

Later (much later) than the OPs period, but I can recall seeing an MLV with GUV or CCT in tow at the short platform on the west side which overhung the route down to Snow Hill and Farringdon. 

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Cannon Street was a nexus for perishable traffic in vans. One of the inbound workings was a train via Farringdon and Snow Hill to (IIRC) Herne Hill that detached a portion for Cannon Street at Ludgate Hill, passing there around midnight. Some details from the WTTs are transcribed on my "Strand" thread. AFAIK, none of this ever went into the platforms at HV. 

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11 minutes ago, Lacathedrale said:

@Joseph_Pestell the WTT from 1903 suggests that there were indeed cattle vans marshalled overnight (well, from midnight) at HV to be attached to the early morning express parcels trains (interestingly, these came from Norwich on the GER down the ELR to Hither Green, then back up to HV)

 

After I had posted, I saw your mention of this on your other thread. It seems like an odd routing (understatement). The train would have to go into Liverpool St to gain access to the East London (involving a reversal) and then two more reversals at Hither Green and Holborn Viaduct. Where was the final destination of these poor beasts that could not have been more easily reached by other routes e.g. Tottenham & Hampstead? 

 

Or could they have been empties?

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The Port Vic parcels and express van train (interestingly not described here as Grande Vitesse) would be during the 1900-1904 period following the destruction of Queenborough Pier by fire (again!).  Heavier and less urgent goods to Flushing (Vlissingen) went via Tilbury Docks for at least part of this period, because of the limited freight handling capacity at Port Victoria. 

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  • 1 month later...

Does anyone have any idea what the round washer things are on the bottom planks of this LBSCR wagon (bottom picture only):

 

https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pics/3346.html

 

 

I thought maybe a place to crank a wagon sheet over, but I see there is one smack bang in the middle of the end (albeit one plank up) and I'm more confused than ever!

 

EDIT; research into 'An Hillustrated History of Southern Wagons vol 2 shows pictures of these and notes them as 'pulley-shaped hooks'. There is indeed a regular hook supplanting these LBSCR designed ones in a later SR photograph.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Lacathedrale said:

Does anyone have any idea what the round washer things are on the bottom planks of this LBSCR wagon (bottom picture only):

 

Yes, they're cleats for sheet tie ropes.

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The diagram there shows tying to a ring; the next diagram shows tying to a cleat, neither illustrate the rosettes, which are the fittings in question. Those BR documents generally are invaluable - although dating from the 1950s/60s, I think one can take them as exemplifying best practice for at least the preceding half-century if not longer. If following the link, scroll right down the page to the end of the section headed "Freight Vehicles and OPeration". Credit to the Barrowmore Model Railway Group for making these generally available. 

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OK, I have a slightly different question about LB&SCR wagons. Specifically the Stroudley 8-ton vans.  A lot of them (but not all!) have two characteristic bulges on the bottom of the sides, just outboard of the doors. Does anyone know what they are? 

lbsc_box_14aug04_0014h.jpg
Image from https://www.bluebell-railway.co.uk/bluebell/pic2/wagons/lbsc_box.html

The bulges are on the bottom plank of the bodyside, just underneath the level of the bottom door hinges. There doesn't seem to be a hole in the woodwork behind, so are they door bangers, or what? I've not been able to find references to what they are anywhere...

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