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Pre Grouping layouts


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The simple lines and angularity of the "Deeley style" (which remained the house style right down to the Patriots) do give rather a toy-like appearance compared to the sophisticated curves of Johnson's style.

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Did they have "grouping" in the rest of Europe? The SNCF was formed in 1938, but that was by Nationalisation and state ownership. The DRG ( German State Railway Company) was formed in 1920 as a private company but presumably government/state controlled. I found the history of the Swiss railway system too confusing to work out what actually happened through the years.

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1 hour ago, Jol Wilkinson said:

Did they have "grouping" in the rest of Europe? The SNCF was formed in 1938, but that was by Nationalisation and state ownership. The DRG ( German State Railway Company) was formed in 1920 as a private company but presumably government/state controlled. I found the history of the Swiss railway system too confusing to work out what actually happened through the years.

 

In most European countries, the state had a great deal more control over the original formation of railways companies. So they started from a "Big Four" situation rather than a pre-Grouping situation.

 

France had seen some mergers prior to nationalisation in 1938: the Etat and Ouest being combined, and the Paris-Orleans and Midi being combined. Pre-1938, the main route to Bordeaux was from Paris-Montparnasse not from Paris-Austerlitz.

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4 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Neuberg, 1913.

 

This weekend at Shildon

 

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But the BUS should be on the bridge!

 

I like the oompah band, there should be more bands on model railways....

 

 

 

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It is, of course, the historical period that is the defining factor for me, not how the various Nations of the world chose to administer their railway systems at any particular point.

 

i always find layouts set in 1913 to be particularly poignant, portraying the halcyon days on the unconscious brink of, in the case of this Swiss setting, four years of Hellish neutrality and minor inconvenience in foreign travel plans. 

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3 minutes ago, Hroth said:

 

But the BUS should be on the bridge!

 

I like the oompah band, there should be more bands on model railways....

 

 

 

 

Well, the owner is currently building 'Neuburg 2013' as a pendant.  The bridge, widened, will be graced by a lorry from the same company that operated the horse-drawn pantechnicon.  He showed me a WIP shot on his 'phone. 

 

I just think it's important to have a vehicle ion a bridge wherever possible!

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Switzerland is very confusing from a British standpoint, because most (all?) of the nominally independent railways receive substantial amounts of public money, and are influenced accordingly by public-policy makers, but they seem to be able to do that without getting into any sort of mental tangle over private-sector/public-sector ideology, and I think they all still work to vertically-integrated models, although I'm not certain about that.

 

If only!

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Saw the Swiss layout at Hexham the other week. It is a seriously excellent piece of modelling. Photographs do not convey the scale of the landscape, which is truly Alpine. Also the siding with turntable, plus the passing loop provide just enough operational interest.

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15 minutes ago, Nearholmer said:

I think they all still work to vertically-integrated models

 

A lot of Swiss railways are very vertically integrated....

 

But I do get your gist!

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Its quite possible that some people may have missed my pre-Grouping posts on this website so I have taken the liberty of posting some duplicate pictures here.

 

My interest is in the relatively obscure Great North of Scotland Railway which grew hand in hand with watching Highland League football.

 

48054938816_7d3f959074_z.jpgIC15 by Ian Thompson, on Flickr

 

1. The only completed GNoSR loco is O class No 10, seen here shunting the yard. The GNoSR utility option was, strangely, the 4-4-0 wheel arrangement which formed by far the majority of the loco stock. This model is obviously a converted Union MiIlls product wherein lie some problems. The boiler and cab should be much lower. The discrepancy is obvious when viewed against the GNoSR carriage stock in the background which has been built to a scale height. On the other side of the coin the Farish horsebox in the background exhibits the same problem.

 

48054939201_15258cb82c_z.jpgIC16 by Ian Thompson, on Flickr

 

2. There is a train of GNoSR carriages built to this profile. Fine, they are not exactly exquisite examples of the model makers art but they did take some time to construct. They do not claim to be scale models either as they have been cut and shut to fit the Roco six wheel chassis. The mixture of liveries is, as I understand it, prototypical, in that the older (brown) stock was not repainted after Pickersgill introduced his version. I believe that some reporters stated that certain four wheelers were almost white by this time!

 

48055035557_f778294094_z.jpgIC17 by Ian Thompson, on Flickr

 

3. Unfortunately the distinctive GNoSR vans, one of which is at the left, were built in the signalboxes that I used to sign for, using Farish vans as a template. They are therefore somewhat larger than their real life counterparts. The van next door is a NBR six wheeler which is probably on the emaciated side and will need attention to its roof before final completion.

 

48055035877_79d1f6e505_z.jpgIC18 by Ian Thompson, on Flickr

 

4. The remaining donor stock retains its BR livery at the moment. The pre-Grouping opens are simple repaints, although I suspect that the one on the right has been repainted into BR livery and has escaped into the wrong stock box! The class O is about to shunt the quayside, the passenger train loco has come to the platform end as was standard practice, so that the signalman could see it, and the class E (as will be) has pushed the stock into the departure platform.

 

I suppose that it has become a case of pre-Grouping modelling for the ham-fisted!

 

Ian T

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On 02/06/2019 at 08:55, Jol Wilkinson said:

Did they have "grouping" in the rest of Europe?

 

European states took much greater control over the development of their railway systems than the Victorians did in Britain.

 

The standard practice was to apportion a designated area of the country to an individual company, specify the main routes to be built and leave them to get on with it, within reason.

If and when companies failed, such as the Ouest in France the government was forced to step in and rescue them.

This led to the formation of the French Etat system, which I suppose could be viewed as a forerunner to the US government's bailout of the north eastern railroads by the formation of Conrail.

The Italian government apparently seemed quite happy to bail out its three systems at regular intervals

Eventually at some point in the early twentieth century most governments decided to step in and set up a national administrative body.

 

This system created scope for large, semi-autonomous regional railways to emerge, and also for very localised political control of minor railways.

I have used some of these templates as the justification for my own model railway, the AFK.

 

Ian T

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The French Etat Railway pre-dates the financial demise of the Ouest by several decades, so to say that this led to the formation of the Etat system is somewhat misleading, although it did greatly bring the Etat to the fore from being the owner/operator of a lot of minor lines to the owner/operator of a major system.

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Also, the French regional companies had a 99 year lease, starting in 1839. When the leases expired, they were de facto nationalised.

But there were also many local lines, outside of this.

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On 02/06/2019 at 08:55, Jol Wilkinson said:

Did they have "grouping" in the rest of Europe? The SNCF was formed in 1938, but that was by Nationalisation and state ownership. The DRG ( German State Railway Company) was formed in 1920 as a private company but presumably government/state controlled. I found the history of the Swiss railway system too confusing to work out what actually happened through the years.

 

The Belgians were well ahead of everyone... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_rail_transport_in_Belgium

 

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I suppose that Belgium had the advantage of being a relatively compact country without far flung corners out of sight and out of mind!

Even here the mainline standard gauge system was massively augmented by secondary railways of local interest.

These often took the form of roadside tramways.

For those interested they even had a tramway Beyer-Garratt style loco on  one line.

 

(Incidently, don't like your location! That's where I hit the majority of my scoring shots as a left handed batsman!)

 

Ian T

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I recognise the woman in yellow with the child as being from a Preiser unpainted box set (100ish figures to chose from, but which box set??)

At least one of the cars in the station yard reminds me of  a Kellogs offer from the early 1970s - a kit car in every box, all old if not ancient.  I still have a few but some wheels have gone astray over time.  For their age they were the real bee's knees.

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7 hours ago, Edwardian said:

Rowington for Shrewley, at the Great Central:

 

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Dick’s layout is beautiful and his stock breathtaking.  We were lucky enough to get him to the South Hants show in Portsmouth a couple of years ago.  He was kind enough to have me as one of his operators but I keeled  over with flu halfway through the day.

 

Has he finished his Great Bear?

 

Duncan

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2 hours ago, drduncan said:

Dick’s layout is beautiful and his stock breathtaking.  We were lucky enough to get him to the South Hants show in Portsmouth a couple of years ago.  He was kind enough to have me as one of his operators but I keeled  over with flu halfway through the day.

 

Has he finished his Great Bear?

 

Duncan

 

Yes, it was running!

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