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LNER A4 tender diffrences ?


vac_basher
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With all the interest concearning the Great Gathering of the A4's at the NRM during the past few weeks I've decided I'd like to add an A4 to my collection....
What I'm after is 4498 Sir Nigel Gresley in late 1980s - early 1990s condition. However Hornby don't do it.

Now, while I'm not too familiar with the A4's (I had an obsession with them over 25 years ago, but almost all knowledge has long since been forgotten) after some extensive research I believe the best starting point for this little project would be the R2339 Mallard which, as far as the loco is concearned, has the double chymny and would only need the valances removed and the extra hatch beneath the nameplates (please correct me if I'm wrong)
However, on the R2339 version the tender is inadequate for my choice of locomotive. So here lies the problem!

Basically my question is, what were the diffrences on the corridor type tenders?

From looking at photos the only diffrences I can see are:

* Corridor yes/no
* Streamlined around the top.
* Higher "shoulder" (nearest the cab)

* Handrails (nearest the cab) on the outside? 
Am I missing anything?

Finally, do/did Hornby do the type of tender I need in LNER blue?

Thanks in advance :good:

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With all the interest concearning the Great Gathering of the A4's at the NRM during the past few weeks I've decided I'd like to add an A4 to my collection....

What I'm after is 4498 Sir Nigel Gresley in late 1980s - early 1990s condition. However Hornby don't do it.

Now, while I'm not too familiar with the A4's (I had an obsession with them over 25 years ago, but almost all knowledge has long since been forgotten) after some extensive research I believe the best starting point for this little project would be the R2339 Mallard which, as far as the loco is concearned, has the double chymny and would only need the valances removed and the extra hatch beneath the nameplates (please correct me if I'm wrong)

However, on the R2339 version the tender is inadequate for my choice of locomotive. So here lies the problem!

Basically my question is, what were the diffrences on the corridor type tenders?

From looking at photos the only diffrences I can see are:

* Corridor yes/no

* Streamlined around the top.

* Higher "shoulder" (nearest the cab)

* Handrails (nearest the cab) on the outside? 

Am I missing anything?

 

Finally, do/did Hornby do the type of tender I need in LNER blue?

 

Thanks in advance :good:

According to my records 60007 ran with (not streamline) corridor tender No. 5324 which was the 1928 build style.

It received this tender 08/08/1943. Prior to that it had a similar tender No.5329 which it received when built.

 

ArthurK

Edited by ArthurK
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With all the interest concearning the Great Gathering of the A4's at the NRM during the past few weeks I've decided I'd like to add an A4 to my collection....

What I'm after is 4498 Sir Nigel Gresley in late 1980s - early 1990s condition. However Hornby don't do it.

Now, while I'm not too familiar with the A4's (I had an obsession with them over 25 years ago, but almost all knowledge has long since been forgotten) after some extensive research I believe the best starting point for this little project would be the R2339 Mallard which, as far as the loco is concearned, has the double chymny and would only need the valances removed and the extra hatch beneath the nameplates (please correct me if I'm wrong)

However, on the R2339 version the tender is inadequate for my choice of locomotive. So here lies the problem!

Basically my question is, what were the diffrences on the corridor type tenders?

From looking at photos the only diffrences I can see are:

* Corridor yes/no

* Streamlined around the top.

* Higher "shoulder" (nearest the cab)

* Handrails (nearest the cab) on the outside? 

Am I missing anything?

 

Finally, do/did Hornby do the type of tender I need in LNER blue?

 

Thanks in advance :good:

There are many differences i.e. the corridor tender is 3mm wider in scale than non-corridor, the fairings were added and cut back at different times (check photos) and a whost of other details.

 

Sadly, the only Garter Blue LNER Corridor tender I know of in the range at the moment that would suit a model of SNG in the time period specified is behind Dominion of Canada, and you'll be hard pressed to find one at the moment.

 

Best course of action for a SNG in 1980s-1990s period is a repaint of a suitable late BR engine, as this will be close to SNG. Best options are Empire of India, Union of South Africa (Commonwealth collection) or Dominion of Canada (Commonwealth collection). This will provide you with the correct detail for a SNG of your time period, and has the correct 1928 corridor tender with beading. Unfortunateally, this is the best way foreward I can see, but I'm sure that there will be other suggestions.

 

Tender info on most of the LNER 8-wheel tender allocations, including some details on SNGs own, are here: http://www.sirnigelgresley.org.uk/tenders/tenders.html

 

(edited for spelling error)

Edited by 69843
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4498 in the 80s had a flat end corridor tender with a rib running down the top edge of the tender sides. Double chimney yes and the tender top streamlined at the front but exposed on the back end were the water goes in. I used to see it often then and drove it once. 4498 was painted in a lighter blue paint too much paler than mallard the wheels were a darker red and had polished thick rimmed wheels. This is we're all Hornby A4s fall down the wheels look totally wrong and the A4 looks lost in that area.

 

Union of south Africa's tender is not an a4 tender it differs in a few areas its actually the "hush hush" engines tender 1000 the 4-6-4 loco that looked like an A4. The non corridor tender on mallard is much smaller and narrower. The curved back corridor tenders to my knowledge none are left extant and of these 3 main types there are further variations within them. A3 tenders differ too

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Thanks to each and every one of you for your very interesting responses. You've given me plenty more research to do :)

 

corridor tender with beading.

I've come across this term once or twice before while researching these tenders.
So, just one further question, what exactly is this beading we're talking about?

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Looks like it will have to be a bit of a compromise to do Sir Nigel....

 

I really didn't want to go down the road of getting a BR green/blue one repainted, because even the paint job, if not done absolutly perfectly, would still be a compromise.

 

My original idea of using the R2339 Mallard is no longer an option now I know the tender is wrong in two regards (no corridor and no beading).

I wondered about possibly using a Bachmann or maybe even an older Hornby tender with this, but I immagine there would be a one-in-a-million chance of the colours matching perfectly.
 

The R3197 Domination Of Canada, as 69843 suggested above, doesn't really seem the way to go because they're bound to sell at a premium on the used market - plus my consciences couldn't really allow me to mess with, what is to many, a desirable model.

 

I have been looking into using the R3095 Commonwealth Of Australia, but the tender still would not have the beading, although I had been contemplating trying to replicate it with a strip of plasticard, even though it would be nowhere near perfect.

 

So I think the only remaining option would be to wait till I can get my hands on a R2888 Kingfisher (as suggested in the de-valencing tool topic) and add a double chymny to it....

Can't seem to think of any other possible solutions. :scratchhead: 
I'll let yous know what I go with in the end.
Once again thanks for the assistance. It's been a very educating day for me :good:

Edited by vac_basher
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Keep checking Ebay. You want a R2339 Mallard for the loco and the Kingfisher from the Flying Scotsman train pack will provide your tender. I have both these items waiting to start the conversion to make my Gresley circa 1980's.

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Hi Ed, why not use the Kingfisher loco too? I thought all it would need would be a double chymny :dontknow: 

I'd love to see some photos of your Sir Nigel when you're done :good:

Hi Vac

 

You actually answered your own question there, rather then have to try and fit a new chimney (and probably end up having to paint the whole front end) I intend to use Mallard to provide a dobule chimney already.

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I just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing any detail diffrences because I can't say I'm all that familiar with the A4's nowadays.

I was reading just reccently that the chimney exchange is supposedly quite straight forward, in that they just pop out, but if there is even the slightest risk of it taking the surrounded paint with it then your approach makes sense :)
Do you find the paint match is adequate between the Mallard loco and the Kingfisher tender?
And will you be having your Sir Nigel with red or black nameplates?

Edited by vac_basher
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The match of the loco and tender seems close to me. I managed to get a cheap Mallard loco off eBay and sourced a tender from here. Mine will have Red nameplates as I intend to model her as close as possible to how she was on 3rd July 1988 when I saw 4498, 60019 (as 2509 Silver Link) and 4468 Mallard outside the NRM. What a wonderful sight.

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  • 4 months later...

Dominion Of Canada

 

Built from, (all from ebay buys) current  Mallard Body , seperate chassis, and seperate  Tender plus new single Chimney, chrome valances to loco and plastic Microstrip added to tender in correct position under the soleplate. Bell was scratchbuilt. New nameplates and numbers/letters.

 

post-7186-0-96388700-1387301480.jpg

 

I am building a Empire of India using same method at moment.

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Spectacular Mick! Well done!

 

Only if you want to pay £150+ for a limited edition to convert - assuming you can get hold of one of course

 Ed, have you seen Hornby are doing another batch of A4s similar to the "great gathering" ones, this time marketing them as the "great goodbye". so shouldn't be too difficult to preorder which ever one one wants i would of have thought.

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Spectacular Mick! Well done!

 

 Ed, have you seen Hornby are doing another batch of A4s similar to the "great gathering" ones, this time marketing them as the "great goodbye". so shouldn't be too difficult to preorder which ever one one wants i would of have thought.

 

 

Yes I have and have ordered all 6 this time. Only really wanted Dominion of Canada but decided the 6 were too good to miss out on. They WILL be run and enjoyed, not stuck in a case.

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Yes I have and have ordered all 6 this time. Only really wanted Dominion of Canada but decided the 6 were too good to miss out on. They WILL be run and enjoyed, not stuck in a case.

 6 for you, superb sir!

Reason i asked if you knew about the new releases was because you'd said that they'd be hard to find and i thought you were reffering to the previous release.

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