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bkempins

WDLR at Battle of Cambrai

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I am working on an small 00/009 scale layout depicting the Battle of Cambrai. My layout includes a scene where the light railway interchanges with the standard gauge at Fins/Sorel. The US 11th Engineers built a platform there to unload the tanks. The tanks did not transfer to the narrow gauge after unloading from the flat cars, but self deployed to hides and then their jump off positions .

 
While the layout focuses on the light railway, I would like to include a scene showing British tanks being unloaded from standard gauge flat cars at the Fins/Sorel yard before the battle. This is my first foray into 00 scale modeling and UK prototype. Can anyone advise me on what type of flat car I should be looking for and what would be a suitable model of it in 00 scale. 
 
This link shows a scene I'd like to replicate.  http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7054/7142791389_e49aac6a3e_o.jpg

 

 

 
Thanks,
 
Bernard Kempinski
 
Alexandria, VA 22301
Edited by bkempins

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The wagons appear to be standard Warflats (which were built to carry tanks) - lots of weblinks and kits are available but I'm not sure if the latter are suitable for the vehicles in WWI condition.

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Isn't the first one with the fishbelly girder akin to the Parkside kit, Mike?

Yes, I think it probably is although again I'm not sure about the detail.  I would have thought however that provided the kit basics are right for the WWI build vehicles the detail could be altered to suit.

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The first wagon, under the MkVI female tank appears to be a British warflat, the others are not. Nor are they rectanks. They do not have a well and there is too much trussing under them. Could they be a native French wagon? Retanks with their well floor were designed more for home use as they helped keep the tanks within the tight British loading guage. With the male tanks the sponsons were removed or swung insdie the tank to transport them by rail in Britian, the sponsons on the ones in the photo are not fully retracted inside the tanks as they are on the French railway system. 

 

Nice photo of C Battalion Tank Corps vehicles on the train. C Bn Tank Corps tanks all had numbers surfixed with C, C32 would have been in No.8 Company.

Edited by Clive Mortimore

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Could they be a native French wagon?

I'm not claiming it as totally representative, but the Mulhouse Museum displays a WW 1 tank on a bogie wagon - and it's a Rectank, built by Leeds Forge.  I wonder whether they had any suitable wagons.

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The cars with the truss underneath look like these cars  http://www.railalbum.co.uk/railway-wagons/military/ww1-gwr-macaw.htm

 

I did some goggle searching but couldn't find any cars that come close in 00 scale. Are those bogies and spoked wheels available from any manufacturer?

Hi Bernard

 

I think you have located the wagons in question. I liked the photo of the sheeted tanks with their sponsons swung inside.

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I'm not claiming it as totally representative, but the Mulhouse Museum displays a WW 1 tank on a bogie wagon - and it's a Rectank, built by Leeds Forge.  I wonder whether they had any suitable wagons.

Hi Jonathan

 

Rectanks were built for transportation of tanks but I do not think they are the wagons in Bernard's photo. I now think they are GWR Macaws as suggested by Bernard.

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Probably the nearest would be an ordinary Macaw with additional trussing added. The Hornby (formerly Airfix, then Mainline) model http://www.castletrains.com/images/_lib/r6477-gwr-macaw-bogie-bolster-wagon-3006207-0-1241649719000.jpg could make a suitable starting point. It looks very much like they were an interim 'quickie' based on an existing standard wagon design with extra strengthening.

Edited by BernardTPM

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I now think they are GWR Macaws

I'd be inclined to agree.  I don't claim anything other than superficial knowledge, but I don't recall ever remember having seen anything French that old which would carry a tank and the fact that  they have a British built wagon in the Museum suggests there was nothing homegrown which was suitable.

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I received a copy of the Hornby model yesterday that I ordered from Amazon. I was a little surprised at the size. It was bigger than I expected.

 

Kit bashing it to a WWI tank transport version is going to require some surgery as the bolsters and frame around the perimeter of the deck are one piece mold. I will probably cut and sand the deck down, then add a new deck with strip wood.

 

The stock bogie mounted  couplers need to be replaced. As I am not very familar with the correct couplers, can someone recommend after market parts? I don't initially intend to operate this car on a layout, so couplers that are closer to prototype would be OK. As a last resort, I could laser cut some of the coupler parts, but I prefer to use a commercial part.

 

Thanks

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I am about half way finished with this project. Here are some shots of the trench side of the layout. Unfortunately, I managed to brick the Dick Kerr model while building it by bending the drive shaft, but it makes a good photo prop.

 

The Sopwith is a Corgi die cast model. It is not permanent. It stands on a piece of piano wire and can be removed. We plan to show a highly detailed model of a crashed Sopwith in no man's land. A friend is building that as he is an avid model air plane builder.

 

AmmoDump2.JPG

 

StraffingRun.jpg

Edited by bkempins
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Very nicely modelled and the backscene looks fantastic. I assume you've seen the tin turtle kits and other bits available for ww1 009 from Nigel Lawton plus have you seen these?

http://www.wdmodels.com/

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Yes, I have some of the W^D figures and kits on hand and more on order. In fact, it was the availability of the W^D, Lawton, and Meridian 00 and 009 kits and accessories that inspired me to tackle this project.

 

I have been extremely impressed with the W^D figures. They are the best small scale figures I have seen, and I have painted literally thousands of other figures over the years in my gaming and military modeling hobby background.

 

I also have the Lawton Simplex and a couple Meridian kits to still assemble. Unfortunately, I damaged the drive train while building the Dick Kerr, so it will not operate. I did not realize the drive shaft needed to be trimmed until after I had installed it. I tried to cut it without removing it and ended up bending the shaft and creating too much friction. 

 


 

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The avatar looks familiar was it your civil war layout in Great Model Railroads? Don't know where my copy's gone to check.

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Yes, my main home layout is an O Scale layout set in 1863 in Virginia. This 00/009 WWI layout is a smaller project for my book. 

 

Here is a link to a video shot on my home layout  

Edited by bkempins
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What's the book? Does it have a military theme too?

Enjoyed the US layout too :)

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The book has a working title, "The Model Railroad Goes to War."  There will be chapters on the American Civil War, WWI, WWII and modern conflicts. There is also an overview chapter with historical material. But the book is not a history book. It focuses on fine scale modeling and model railroads.  It should be published in 2014 by Kalmbach Publishing.

If you know of anyone with military model railroad subject matter, please have them contact me for possible inclusion in the book. I am particularly looking material on standard gauge railroads set in Europe in WWI or WWII.

Edited by bkempins
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I received a copy of the Hornby model yesterday that I ordered from Amazon. I was a little surprised at the size. It was bigger than I expected.

 

Kit bashing it to a WWI tank transport version is going to require some surgery as the bolsters and frame around the perimeter of the deck are one piece mold. I will probably cut and sand the deck down, then add a new deck with strip wood.

 

The stock bogie mounted  couplers need to be replaced. As I am not very familar with the correct couplers, can someone recommend after market parts? I don't initially intend to operate this car on a layout, so couplers that are closer to prototype would be OK. As a last resort, I could laser cut some of the coupler parts, but I prefer to use a commercial part.

 

Thanks

 

Nobody better qualified seems to have commented on this , but at the risk of shocking you , the correct prototype couplings - at least before it left Britain - would have been a hook in the buffer beam and three big chain links hanging off it. I've seen reference to ROD 2-8-0s  being built with side chains as well as the conventional British 3 link coupling , so it's possible a customised MACAW for service in France might have acquired side chains as well.

 

I don't use 3 link couplings myself (they're bad enough in 7mm scale never mind 4mm) but I think the "standard" product is these , available from C&L though I suspect they are somewhat overscale for practical reasons : http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=463_464_467  It's possible there may be a deadscale version from Exactoscale, who are also now owned by C&L

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Here is another night test photo

 

 

Amazing - when I first saw that photo it was on the work computer and it looked good - now I have just looked again on the more up to date and faster machine at home and get the full flashing light effect which is even more realistic and really brings the picture to life. Looking forward to seeing more of this great work

 

Mike

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Nobody better qualified seems to have commented on this , but at the risk of shocking you , the correct prototype couplings - at least before it left Britain - would have been a hook in the buffer beam and three big chain links hanging off it. I've seen reference to ROD 2-8-0s  being built with side chains as well as the conventional British 3 link coupling , so it's possible a customised MACAW for service in France might have acquired side chains as well.

 

I don't use 3 link couplings myself (they're bad enough in 7mm scale never mind 4mm) but I think the "standard" product is these , available from C&L though I suspect they are somewhat overscale for practical reasons : http://www.finescale.org.uk/index.php?route=product/category&path=463_464_467  It's possible there may be a deadscale version from Exactoscale, who are also now owned by C&L

Thanks for the info. I will try some dummy 3 link couplings for the photos. I am going to try small U shaped links to the narrow gauge cars. They wont have to do much coupling and uncoupling for this layout.

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Amazing - when I first saw that photo it was on the work computer and it looked good - now I have just looked again on the more up to date and faster machine at home and get the full flashing light effect which is even more realistic and really brings the picture to life. Looking forward to seeing more of this great work

 

Mike

Amazing - when I first saw that photo it was on the work computer and it looked good - now I have just looked again on the more up to date and faster machine at home and get the full flashing light effect which is even more realistic and really brings the picture to life. Looking forward to seeing more of this great work

 

Mike

The animated gif was an experiment. It does seem to help convey the horror of the whole situation. A friend commented how none of the soldiers  in the photo are looking at the fire and flashes, they have become inured to it.

 

 

Edited by bkempins
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