TMD fuel deliveries mid 1970s

[Alex TM]

Hi folks,

 

Please forgive me if I am going over old ground (or, as is more likely, that my use of the search function wasn't as good as it should be    ) but can anyone tell me what sort of rail tankers would have been used to deliver fuel to FPs or TMDs around the mid '70s, say from 1974 through 1977?

 

I am interested to know:

1.  what types (e.g. TTA, TSV, etc); and

2.  what liveries (e.g. if oil company then which one, or if 'plain' black/grey & red).

 

Any help, including pointers to other threads will be appreciated.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71]

Hi Alex,

 

The answer will be specific to your chosen prototype e.g  company brand on the tanks. Also, don't forget the sludge tank wagon...used to collect the waste from the fuel point...usually long in the tooth and fairly grotty. 

 

Dave

[Clive Mortimore]

Hi Alex

 

Each region would have a six monthly contract with an oil company for their fuel needs. Sometimes the same company would get the contract for many years in a row. The ER seemed to have given Shell-BP the contract more often than say Esso. The WR preferred Esso judging by photos of tank wagons in their depots. The time period you are interested in was about the time when tank wagons started to lose their company logos. I haven't really studied the other regions but a look through a book on diesel depots should give you some ideas.

 

As for what type of tank wagon? TTAs were the most common.

 

Up until the early 70s diesel was normally delivered in a black liveried "B" class tank wagon. "B" class wagons convey oils that have a high flashpoint and are theoretically safer. Until the 1960s they were the only wagons with bottom discharge valves as early designs had a tendency to leak.  With the improvement of the valves "A" class wagons were fitted with bottom discharge, before that their oil had to be syphoned from a top mounting. "A" class tank wagons carry oils with a low flash point and need to be treated with more care.  Diesel is a “B” class oil because of its high flash point, it is hard to start a diesel fire with a discarded fag butt. It is also a clean oil, unlike most other "B" class oils. With the advent of the improved bottom discharge valves diesel started to be transported in grey "A" class wagons. These were the norm for your time period. 

[45125]

Hi Alex

 

Each region would have a six monthly contract with an oil company for their fuel needs. Sometimes the same company would get the contract for many years in a row. The ER seemed to have given Shell-BP the contract more often than say Esso. The WR preferred Esso judging by photos of tank wagons in their depots. The time period you are interested in was about the time when tank wagons started to lose their company logos. I haven't really studied the other regions but a look through a book on diesel depots should give you some ideas.

 

As for what type of tank wagon? TTAs were the most common.

 

Up until the early 70s diesel was normally delivered in a black liveried "B" class tank wagon. "B" class wagons convey oils that have a high flashpoint and are theoretically safer. Until the 1960s they were the only wagons with bottom discharge valves as early designs had a tendency to leak.  With the improvement of the valves "A" class wagons were fitted with bottom discharge, before that their oil had to be syphoned from a top mounting. "A" class tank wagons carry oils with a low flash point and need to be treated with more care.  Diesel is a “B” class oil because of its high flash point, it is hard to start a diesel fire with a discarded fag butt. It is also a clean oil, unlike most other "B" class oils. With the advent of the improved bottom discharge valves diesel started to be transported in grey "A" class wagons. These were the norm for your time period. 

Don't forget that lub oil would also arrive at most depots by rail. This would be in a class B tanker

 

It wasn't unkown for petrol to turn up at depot in wrongly labeled tanks.

 

Al Taylot

[Fat Controller]

Don't forget that lub oil would also arrive at most depots by rail. This would be in a class B tanker

 

It wasn't unkown for petrol to turn up at depot in wrongly labeled tanks.

 

Al Taylot

Some lubricating/transmission oil to Western Region depots was delivered in tanks bearing the attractive maroon livery of 'Lubricant Producers' during the early 1970s. I think they became part of Shell. At the tail end of the 1960s, Landore was still getting fuel delivered in black 14t unfitted tanks (I  can't remember if they were Shell-BP or Esso)- on one notable Sunday morning, though, I saw a bogie tank. It wasn't one of those new-fangled air-braked jobs, though, but one of the ones built for shale-oil traffic from Scotland, then used for paraffin-wax from Grain to Pumpherson. If only I'd had a camera..

[Alex TM]

Hi folks,

 

Thanks for all the input.  I must admit I hadn't thought of such things as bulk deliveries of lubricants, nor of the need to dispose of sludge; thanks Al and Dave for that.  Clive, that's helpful information about the differing flashpoints of the various fuels and oils; again, it's something I hadn't considered.  As for the shale oil tanker, I am sure that I have seen a picture of one of those in a book somewhere; it was one I had borrowed but, if memory serves me right, it was one a series such as 'Working Wagons'.  Brian, do you mean 'Pumpherston' in what is now West Lothian?  If you do, it's an area I see regularly as the spoil heaps are visible not only from the line from Edinburgh to Bathgate but also the Glasgow mainline and the line to Carstairs.

 

My more focussed areas of interest would be the LMR and ScR.

 

Once more, many thanks for all the input.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Djcwey]

Don't know if the following link would be of any interest?  One of the images shows a tank wagon on a demonstration lift by a steam breakdown crane, during an open day at Immingham MPD in September 1974. 

 

http://www.davesrailpics.bravehost.com/imm/immloco.htm

[Alex TM]

Hi again,

 

Thanks for that link.  The whole page is interesting, and not just that one photo.  An interesting contrast, too, between the two visits.

 

Once more, thanks.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[JeffP]

Fuel oil at Frodingham came in in black TTA's.

[Alex TM]

Hi Jeff,

 

Thanks for that.  It looks like there was a fair degree of variety around the country.  I'll have a closer look at photos from now on, as I have never really paid attention to that sort of detail before.  I had also always assumed that the fuelling contracts would have been nationwide and for a longer period.

 

Once more thanks for all the input.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[Rivercider]

Hi Alex,

as you have realised there was variety around the country.

 

Esso at Fawley supplied most (all?) of the Western Region depots in the London area and west country in the late 1970s.

At Bristol, Bath Road and St Phillips Marsh HST received their tanks via Kingsland Road Yard in Bristol.

The tanks were detached off a front portion of a  Eastleigh - Severn Tunnel Junction service.

From Kingsland Road the local 'Enparts' trip loco, usually an 08, would visit Bath Road and SPM

delivering the loaded tanks as well as the Enparts stores vans from Swindon and Crewe works.

 

The tanks were in the ESSO 56xxx series and were vacuum braked at the time, TOPS code TTF I think.

Later received air brakes and modifiied suspension, and became code TTA. (See Paul Bartletts site).

 

Here is a photo taken later in 1980, the tanks were air braked by then.

Enparts trip loco 08950 arrives at Bath Road with loaded fuel tanks, the normal daily arrival was 3 tanks I recall, 26/3/80. 

 

cheers

 

edit 

Fawley still supplies St Phillips Marsh and Laira to this day, with the same tanks.

The much photographed 6V62 is one of the few remaining freight services in the west country.

Edited July 31, 2013 by Rivercider

[The Stationmaster]

Judging by the label on a tank car we had off the road at Llandarcy in December 1973 that refinery was supplying South Wales depots.

[Blobrick]

Looks like l am late to this party as well!

 

Can anyone tell me , which company/livery TTA s were used to supply the Southern region's diesel fleet in 1969/70 please?  Would Grey BRT/ESSO TTAs with Red sole bars, have been seen on the Southern in this period?

 

Bob C

Edited October 18, 2020 by Blobrick

[Rivercider]

3 hours ago, Blobrick said:

Looks like l am late to this party as well!

 

Can anyone tell me , which company/livery TTA s were used to supply the Southern region's diesel fleet in 1969/70 please?  Would Grey BRT/ESSO TTAs with Red sole bars, have been seen on the Southern in this period?

 

Bob C

I think they were grey ESSO tanks in the 56XXX series new in about 1964. 1969/70 was before the tanks were rebuilt with air brakes (and revised suspension?).

As built I think they were fitted with afi accelerated freight inshot(?) vacuum brakes, being modified with air brakes in about the mid 1970s?

 

cheers.

Edited October 18, 2020 by Rivercider

[hmrspaul]

If they are the 56xxx then they weren't converted until the 1980s. There were three different builders for these wagons which may help with selecting a model

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essopowellduffryna

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essopickeringa

https://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/essochasrobertsa

 

Paul

 

[Blobrick]

Thanks for the information Gents. Quick question re the 56xxx Esso tankers, did these tanker have the red sole bar, or was that a later addition?

 

Cheers 

 

Bob C

[hmrspaul]

The Red solebar was a requirement for many many years, it helps to indicate it is a class A tank and therefore subject to various traffic restrictions - such as the requirement for barriers between locomotive and the tanks. 

 

Paul

[Blobrick]

31 minutes ago, hmrspaul said:

The Red solebar was a requirement for many many years, it helps to indicate it is a class A tank and therefore subject to various traffic restrictions - such as the requirement for barriers between locomotive and the tanks. 

 

Paul

 

Many Thanks Paul, that has cleared up my question, thanks for your prompt reply as well

 

Cheers Bob C