Guest 838rapid Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I like the idea of the Working Fan,and its associated workings. In my mind I would love to get the marker liights to light up,just like my oo Gauge model did. However I keep getting nagging thoughts that I must walk before I can run.. Would it be possible though guys in your experience within the size of the castings?? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozzyo Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 Had time to start drilling the holes in the castings. I am puzzlled by the choice of drill sizes, holes are 2.4mm dia not a usual drill size so used 2.5mm they are only to allow screws to go through, but 1.8mm dia in the body castings are to take the thread of the screws so quite important to get a good grip. vernier calipers showed a 2mm drill to be 1.9mm so used that. I plan to used the screws to position the casting then soldered them. Two tips if any one is reading this and just getting started in loco building. Go slow a few mm at a time, the metal soon clogs drill bits and the drill jams or even snaps. If the drill bit flutes get clogged up with white metal, drill into a piece of hard wood or similar and it will clear the flutes. I still do not quite get the idea behind all the fuss with screws why have a removable cab? In the time it takes to drill and tap the cab could have been soldered securely in place. Hello all, sorry I lost your name on the first quote malc125, seeing the screws that DJH supply with the kit explains a lot in the chose of drill sizes. The screws are indeed self-tapping screws of about 2.3mm O/Dia. so the tapping size will be about 1.9mm, as these screws will go in at any angle but square I now see why the large clearance hole. When using these screws drive them in to there full depth (but not in one go,doing it in one or two turns in and then back them off about half a turn) it also helps to have a bit of Lub. on them (candle wax is good, just screw them in to a candle, that should be enought ). Kenton, I'm not sure how you could solder the cab into place looking at the cast footplate, and the one piece cab? OzzyO. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kev_Lewis Posted August 12, 2013 Share Posted August 12, 2013 I'm not sure how you could solder the cab into place looking at the cast footplate, and the one piece cab? You're right there ozzyo. It would appear that the cab has to be removable so that the interior can be painted. Keep up the good work malc and Chris. I'm really enjoying the discussion that's going on around the building of your kits. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc125 Posted August 12, 2013 Author Share Posted August 12, 2013 I still do not quite get the idea behind all the fuss with screws why have a removable cab? In the time it takes to drill and tap the cab could have been soldered securely in place. Cab floor is solid, interior console needs painting, cab needs glazing after painting body colour. Having just the cab removable could lead to paintwork damage. I think the instructions look at joining the two bonnetcastings to the cab and have the three castings joined as one removable unit. Instructions are just a colour photo showing location of the various parts, there are some other castings looking like long boxes suggesting they need to be soldered / glued to the body castings. Quote from instructions " Do not glue into position as they will need removing when the body is dissasembled before painting" Having ten screws does seem excessive Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Hi chris I haven't got to the coupling rods yet but was hoping to start chassis tonight, any particular reason you think they should be jointed? I have always preferred chassis with some flexibility. All of my locos built from kits have beam compensation as it improves the running quality, ensures better electrical pick-up continuity and allows the loco to negotiate sharper curves. In addition, the Class 14 is effectively an eight-coupled chassis with the jack shaft Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I'm fast getting the feeling that this starter kit is being taken for a ride into something far more experimental and beyond the basic intended market All good stuff of course, but perhaps we should be careful of not putting people off the original kit - clearly noting that such additions are VERY optional extras? I still do not quite get the idea behind all the fuss with screws why have a removable cab? In the time it takes to drill and tap the cab could have been soldered securely in place. Ease of painting I expect. I shall not be messing about with drilling and tapping screws for the assembly of the superstructure, but will solder instead. This complicates the painting marginally, but it is quicker and easier to mask. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 Kenton, I'm not sure how you could solder the cab into place looking at the cast footplate, and the one piece cab? I don't see that as a problem, there are plenty of instances where you don't have the option to solder from the inside - in fact in many cases soldering from the inside can be fatal as the barrel of the soldering iron comes into contact with the surrounding w/m. I do understand the option to have the body removable from the footplate for ease of painting, though would also vote for masking. But why so many screws! Not to mention the undue stress that screws will place on the alignment of the chassis. How many times have we seen kits where the body, usually a tubular or box structure is many times stronger than the flat footplate so the footplate bends to match the small errors in alignment of the body. I also have some concern of unsightly daylight gaps between the screwed body parts and/or the footplate - are the castings that good to provide a perfect fit? I think I would have preferred an all soldered design with access provided to the cab through a demountable floor. I guess it is about personal preference. I will be interested how those gaps appear on the completed model. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc125 Posted August 13, 2013 Author Share Posted August 13, 2013 I have always preferred chassis with some flexibility. All of my locos built from kits have beam compensation as it improves the running quality, ensures better electrical pick-up continuity and allows the loco to negotiate sharper curves. In addition, the Class 14 is effectively an eight-coupled chassis with the jack shaft I agree with you, are you planning to use beam compensation ? if so can you post how you do it. Do you think there is any benefit of jointing rods if beam compension isn't used? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted August 13, 2013 Share Posted August 13, 2013 I agree with you, are you planning to use beam compensation ? if so can you post how you do it. Do you think there is any benefit of jointing rods if beam compension isn't used? It's too late for me now because the rods are soldered up and and I would have to dismantle the chassis to fit hornblocks and set up the beam. On this model, I would move the drive to the rea axle and compensate the front two axles. i would probably articulate both joints in the coupling rods. Even without compensation, I think there is some benefit to flexible coupling rods on a rigid chassis. My second O Gauge loco was was an 0-6-0T with one piece coupling rods and heavy brass frames that would have served well as the keel of the Bismarck. I jointed the rods and slightly elongated the bearing holes on the centre axle to allow about 0.5mm of vertical play. It made a significant difference to the quality of running. It is worth noting on the Class 14 chassis that the centre axle is a few thou above the centre line of the front and rear axles to minimise the risk of see-sawing about the centre axle. On my Dragon Models rolling road, which is a superbly engineered and very true, it is possible to see that on a perfectly level surface the pick-up is effectively 0-4-0. However, the substantial weight of the cast superstructure provides such good adhesion and momentum that potential pick-up problems are not readily apparent on my loosely laid test track. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc125 Posted August 16, 2013 Author Share Posted August 16, 2013 Some days you are the windscreen and other days the fly. Had to walk away from the castings for a while, been checking prototype pictures and reference books, need to get my head round a few things. Got a start on building the chassis. Tried it round a curved section of my layout and through point work, just enough sideplay for 5'6" curves but the centre axle must have some play in it. Put motor plate it and plastic gears awful noise from it, so removed and put in gear box I tried early, same problem. After a lot of time, effort, and nearly throwing it at the nearest wall, found that if the grub screws holding the gears to the axles are anything but just holding, the gears wheel go out of centre. Solution I have come up with is to use loctite on the motor gear and file a flat on the wheel axle. Much better now. The motor plate could have been used after all and it allows the axle to move sideways as well. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted August 16, 2013 Share Posted August 16, 2013 the gears wheel go out of centre. Solution I have come up with is to use loctite on the motor gear and file a flat on the wheel axle. Much better now. The motor plate could have been used after all and it allows the axle to move sideways as well.An excellent observation. One that is used almost every time and without hesitation by those used to building such axles/gear, motor shaft/worm assemblies. But not immediately obvious to the novice. I see the solution should be clear in such instructions. The excentricity will lead to quick wear of the worm/gear and add to failure of the box. Well done for pointing out the simple solution for any novice following this topic. Also that the mount might not be quite the disaster that it first appears to be. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 17, 2013 Share Posted August 17, 2013 Perhaps I should use a different identity for personal contributions to RMWeb? No, I think not. I for one value the contributions you make - and the fact that you have experience of producing and marketing RTR informs your views and that gives them a different slant. No point in being coy about who you are! Chaz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted August 17, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 17, 2013 For what it's worth there was a RTR version running today on Dalry Road at Midland Railex and in my opinion it looked good and ran well. The owner and layout operators seemed to share my view. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
81A Oldoak Posted August 18, 2013 Share Posted August 18, 2013 For what it's worth there was a RTR version running today on Dalry Road at Midland Railex and in my opinion it looked good and ran well. The owner and layout operators seemed to share my view. Chris It does look good and the bonnet handrail ruse works at this distance and angle. All I have remaining to do on the chassis is to ream out the locating holes for the brakes and sandboxes and fit them. I'll do that later. I will then get to work on the superstructure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted August 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2013 Having also seen the RTR version today I too was impressed with it's look. The finish is excellent, looking more like a mainstream plastic loco than a kitbuilt offering. Getting tempted....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted August 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2013 My only major comment - and this would apply to the kit built or RTR version is I'd be tempted to add the lifting bolts visible on the bonnet roofs as in this shot of D9521 at Dean Forest Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted August 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2013 Interestingly those eye bolts are in place in the unpainted version shown on the DJH website http://www.djhmodelloco.co.uk/prodpage.asp?productid=3754 but are definitely not on the RTR model - another photo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted August 18, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 18, 2013 I should also add if anyone needs any specific detail shots of the real thing I've a fair library picked up over the last year or so. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc125 Posted August 18, 2013 Author Share Posted August 18, 2013 My only major comment - and this would apply to the kit built or RTR version is I'd be tempted to add the lifting bolts visible on the bonnet roofs as in this shot of D9521 Lifting bolts are included in the kit as etched nickel silver, and small indentations in castings show positions Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc125 Posted August 19, 2013 Author Share Posted August 19, 2013 I should also add if anyone needs any specific detail shots of the real thing I've a fair library picked up over the last year or so. Chris Chris have you any cab interior shots? Malc Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Gilbert Posted August 19, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 19, 2013 Chris have you any cab interior shots? Malc Not as such - sadly overlooked I'm afraid but here's what I do have MLI vol 186 Page 8 has a decent view and Dec 2006 Railway Magazine P41 onwards has 2 shots of the interior of D9555 Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc125 Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Got the big castings together Spent time looking at prototype pictures and a drawing found on internet The pictures of the RTR version are a big help With the bonnets positioned I tack soldered top centre and bottom corners (both will be covered by other castings) turned it over and soldered it solid from the inside. Still needs a bit of a clean up in places The kit has a number of small differences compares to the actual class 14 but you can get a good representation. You could just assemble the castings as is but you might want to look carefully at The position of the castings against the windows with the etch suround in place The bonnet castings relative to the buffer beam The cab side and accessory boxes alignment The bend of hand rails going into the accessory boxes Assessory box put in position with etch resting on top just to show what I want to alter Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian daniels Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 I got a few detail shots including the cab interior. http://www.flickr.com/photos/brianews/sets/72157627020797588/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc125 Posted August 20, 2013 Author Share Posted August 20, 2013 Many thanks for adding the photos guys, they really show the key areas that define the look of the class 14 well. Much appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
malc125 Posted August 24, 2013 Author Share Posted August 24, 2013 Good source of pictures http://www.railwayscene.co.uk/photos/Class_14 There are two types of brake shoes included in kit single and larger double shoes, I'm modelling 14029 in BR blue that uses the single shoe brakes. Does any one know any details of these double shoe brake blocks, thought they might be for NCB version but have found photos of NCB with the smaller shoes. Info would help other people building the kit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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