Jump to content

Andy Y

Invicta to produce ex-Modelzone Ltd. Eds.

Recommended Posts

Ohhhhh, very nice, arrived this morning:

 

post-586-0-31529800-1383909052.jpg

 

All that's needed now is a J69 in the similar livery as I often saw at Liverpool Street Station all those many years ago..... :jester:  :imsohappy: .

 

Keith

 

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Received an e-mail today informing me that the RTC twin coach pack (39-001W) is in stock. Unfortunately I only checked my e-mails after 5pm, so  I'll have to give them a ring tomorrow.

 

The e-mail also informs that the price has had to rise to £74.99 including post.

 

As these have sold out on pre-order, I dread to think what the carpetbaggers will be asking for them on ebay in the very near future!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Received an e-mail today informing me that the RTC twin coach pack (39-001W) is in stock. Unfortunately I only checked my e-mails after 5pm, so  I'll have to give them a ring tomorrow.

 

The e-mail also informs that the price has had to rise to £74.99 including post.

 

As these have sold out on pre-order, I dread to think what the carpetbaggers will be asking for them on ebay in the very near future!

 

I got notified also... too bad price has risen out of my affordability range... :( going to have to pass on these...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What a shame none of these are N gauge... :O

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I contacted Invicta as I noticed that the Brake Post Office Tender (BPOT)/NUX, Mark 1 coaches were no longer showing on their website and I had pre-ordered 3 to go with the Bachmann main range  proposed Post Office Tender (POT) Mark 1s. They have advised me that they have currently suspended the models from pre-order, as the indicative price from the recent Bachmann price increases has increased to between £60-£70 which may make it non viable to carry on with. They are trying to get a firmer price from Bachmann before deciding whether to proceed or not. When a final decision is made, all those with pre-orders will be advised.

 

If Invicta decide not to go ahead, I wonder if Bachmann will adopt the model into the main range if they go ahead themselves and produce the POT, it is a logical option. I can understand a retailer being concerned that a coach being sold at that potential price, is likely to be difficult to shift in the quantity that they will have to buy from Bachmann as a special commission. One option might be as Modelzone did with the TPOs, the first 4 liveries were Modelzone only models, then 2 years later Bachmann produced different running numbers in the main range. I assume that Modelzone, under that arrangement, didn't have sole rights or ownership of the tooling.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I contacted Invicta as I noticed that the Brake Post Office Tender (BPOT)/NUX, Mark 1 coaches were no longer showing on their website and I had pre-ordered 3 to go with the Bachmann main range  proposed Post Office Tender (POT) Mark 1s. They have advised me that they have currently suspended the models from pre-order, as the indicative price from the recent Bachmann price increases has increased to between £60-£70 which may make it non viable to carry on with. They are trying to get a firmer price from Bachmann before deciding whether to proceed or not. When a final decision is made, all those with pre-orders will be advised.

 

If Invicta decide not to go ahead, I wonder if Bachmann will adopt the model into the main range if they go ahead themselves and produce the POT, it is a logical option. I can understand a retailer being concerned that a coach being sold at that potential price, is likely to be difficult to shift in the quantity that they will have to buy from Bachmann as a special commission. One option might be as Modelzone did with the TPOs, the first 4 liveries were Modelzone only models, then 2 years later Bachmann produced different running numbers in the main range. I assume that Modelzone, under that arrangement, didn't have sole rights or ownership of the tooling.

 

If its going to be too difficult for Invicta to sell at that price, its probably unlikely that Bachmann would be able to do any better to shift it in greater quantities as part of their main range. Was only reason Bachmann took some previous exclusive models into their main range not because too much progress had been made on them already to cancel and the models were nearly ready?

 

If the plan is to have an exclusive first run of releases then it probably wont be announced up front as the second batch is likely to be cheaper in the main range so they'll want to sell out the exclusive batch first.

 

I really hope it goes ahead though and if its produced to the same quality as the existing sorting van, I'd still have the 2 I have pre-ordered at £60-70 each to increase the variety of TPO stock I have.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Of course Gordon, don't forget that the Invicta price includes post and packing, and there is no retail discount as it is an exclusive product, so a Bachmann main range equivalent would probably be retailed at £49-£55. I agree it would be a shame to lose it and like you, I would retain my order for 3, however I would be concerned about the effect of next years prices, as these models won't be available until late 2015 at the earliest, as they were probably intended to be developed alongside the POT Mark 1.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wondered why the BPOT is listed in the OO Wishlist poll...

 

I suspect the high price for the BPOT is because Bachmann is quoting a price to Invicta based on covering all its costs and give them a profit too from the initial production run. If the limited edition sells out quickly, Bachmann could then decide to produce its own standard release later on the basis that there was still unsatisfied demand, which is what happened with the POS - and probably why Bachmann is producing the version with nets.

 

On this basis I suspect that if Invicta doesn't think it can sell enough BPOTs at around £60 a pop, Bachmann may well decide that it wouldn't be able to sell the higher number needed for a standard release even at the lower price it could sell them at. It being more of a niche model, being restricted to the Paddington-WoE TPOs, doesn't help either.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I wondered why the BPOT is listed in the OO Wishlist poll...

 

I suspect the high price for the BPOT is because Bachmann is quoting a price to Invicta based on covering all its costs and give them a profit too from the initial production run. If the limited edition sells out quickly, Bachmann could then decide to produce its own standard release later on the basis that there was still unsatisfied demand, which is what happened with the POS - and probably why Bachmann is producing the version with nets.

 

On this basis I suspect that if Invicta doesn't think it can sell enough BPOTs at around £60 a pop, Bachmann may well decide that it wouldn't be able to sell the higher number needed for a standard release even at the lower price it could sell them at. It being more of a niche model, being restricted to the Paddington-WoE TPOs, doesn't help either.

The BPOT in the poll is a different diagram to the one Invicta are planning if I recall correctly.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There were lots of different TPO diagrams that weren't included in the wish-list, both Sorting and Stowage vans. Shame they weren't really as I'd happily buy any that get produced!!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The BPOT in the poll is a different diagram to the one Invicta are planning if I recall correctly.

 

Yes. The Guide says:

 

BR Travelling Post Office Stowage Brake Van (Mk1 Diag.723 built from 1959)

Production of Diag.723 would facilitate modelling the Paddington-Penzance Postal. Model Zone and Bachmann already produce the required Diag.720 Sorting Van in both N and 00.

 

whereas Modelzone proposed the Diag. 733, although I'm sure I read somewhere someone saying that the Modelzone proposed van was suitable for the Padd-Penz Postal. Perhaps the result of the Poll may help Invicta and/or Bachmann decide whether or not to go ahead with the model.

 

EDIT to correct my misunderstanding of the Diags.

Edited by brushman47544

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re wishlist poll - bit stupid if any decision is being based - I intentionally DIDN'T vote for that as I knew Invicta/Bachmann were doing them...

If there was any intention of using the wishlist to inform production decisions, at least tell us so we can make an informed vote! :banghead:

 

As a 'one off' coach yes I'd probably get them, but £60 IS a bit steep, assuming as with the other TPO vehicles, there is no interior, and much of the detailed tooling already exists from either the Mk1 range or the other TPO model including bogies, coupling mechanism, underframe detail, buffers, corridor connections, UF moulding (assuming footboards are on appropriate tool slides) etc. Compare to £60 for a highly detailed inspection saloon. But as a one-off, yes I'd pay for a BPOT.

I was kinda banking on aumenting my two POS's with a Bachmann POT and Invicta BPOT to produce a rather nice GCR-esque preserved TPO!

 

I will be VERY disappointed if these models are not produced.

Edited by G-BOAF

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Remember Invicta only have them self's to shift them, but Bachmann have 100's of ways and places to sell them. Invicta are a new small business, so need to be cautious with their money.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cant help having to agree there that I'd be surprised if it should come out as expensive as £60 for a coach where all the detailing is external and with no large windows to make things awkward or lots of pipework to fit as on some wagons.

 

If its £60 for that, where are we heading for other 'normal' coaches?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Until today, I wasn't aware that such vehicles existed so I've been looking through the TPO chapter in Parkin. If I've read it correctly, there were only nine brake/stowage vehicles in all, six to diagram 723 which appear to have been used only on the Western Region and three to diagram 733 about which the book is less forthcoming (unless I've missed a bit).

 

On that basis, it seems reasonable to assume that most (if not all) WR TPO sets included one of the type being offered. The (even rarer) other sort doesn't matter in this context. By simple deduction, all but a very few TPOs on other regions must have included an ordinary BG (hopefully) painted to match the rest of the train.

 

As to the price, if used as on the prototype, this coach is as specialised as Hornby's Devon Belle observation car but without the additional appeal that comes from many people having ridden in a preserved one. I shudder to think what that would cost if it were being produced from scratch in today's world.

 

If I wanted a TPO brake, I'd grit my teeth, buy one and thank my lucky stars it was being made at all. Most owners of layouts big enough to justify more than one probably don't have to worry about the price!

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I cant help having to agree there that I'd be surprised if it should come out as expensive as £60 for a coach where all the detailing is external and with no large windows to make things awkward or lots of pipework to fit as on some wagons.

 

If its £60 for that, where are we heading for other 'normal' coaches?

The TPO brake is so specialised that I suspect most potential buyers will only be able to justfy running it by invoking Rule 1!

 

Most new r-t-r coaches should have wider appeal but will, inevitably, be of less common prototypes with lower sales potential than (for instance) Bachmann Mk.1s.

 

Therefore, what we can consider 'normal' has changed even before the general price increases seen recently.

 

I have pre-ordered some of Bachmann's forthcoming SECR 'Birdcage' stock and will not be at all surprised if they eventually emerge with an RRP in that ball park.

 

Fortunately, I only require one 3-set and they are a 'want' rather than a 'need'. When they do arrive, if I can't get mine for less than £150, I'll walk away. 

 

John

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I suspect that part of the problem for Invicta and for others who have commissioned Bachmann limited editions is that the potential prices now, are not likely to be the final price, as reading between the lines from the response I got from Invicta and from Chris Trerise's blog (Kernow Models) last week concerning their limited edition models, is that they are negotiating with Bachmann on prices. The probability is that Bachmann won't agree a fixed price, so there is not just the 2014 price rise to absorb, but what increase will occur in 2015 or even 2016, given the long lead in times of Bachmann products. Typically a Bachmann coach will take 2-3 years from announcement to be produced. Invicta may also have suffered canceled orders due to the increase imposed by Bachmann on the Mark 1 CCT, just before it was distributed and be wary of having to finance another slow seller.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was in my local shop lunchtime to pick up some glue and understand that Bachmann may have deleted some planned items - Intermodals, a Hall and a Warship? Owner seemed to think may be a result of hgh RRP and low demand from retailers so the Invicta TPO's may be the tip of an iceberg.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was in my local shop lunchtime to pick up some glue and understand that Bachmann may have deleted some planned items - Intermodals, a Hall and a Warship? Owner seemed to think may be a result of hgh RRP and low demand from retailers so the Invicta TPO's may be the tip of an iceberg.

 

Bachmann has certainly deleted 32-062 Class 42 Warship Diesel Hydraulic No.810 (Cockade) BR Blue Weathered, but whether this is because of poor advance sales (there is after all a newly tooled Class 43 on the way, with probably a Class 42 to follow based on allowances made to the tooling) or simply to reduce the number of outstanding models I don't know. Other models being deleted wouldn't therefore surprise me.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Inetresting

 

810 is one of the early batch of class 42s with different roof arrangements to accommodate different train heating boilers. The current tooling is incorrect for these locos.

 

Given the trouble they have gone to to get the class 43 right it might be nice to think they will wait until they see what the retooled class 43s sell like at the list price of £134.95 before retooling the 42 rather than re-issuing another version of the old model - although that was never half bad!

 

Cheers

 

Phil

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Until today, I wasn't aware that such vehicles existed so I've been looking through the TPO chapter in Parkin. If I've read it correctly, there were only nine brake/stowage vehicles in all, six to diagram 723 which appear to have been used only on the Western Region and three to diagram 733 about which the book is less forthcoming (unless I've missed a bit).

 

On that basis, it seems reasonable to assume that most (if not all) WR TPO sets included one of the type being offered. The (even rarer) other sort doesn't matter in this context. By simple deduction, all but a very few TPOs on other regions must have included an ordinary BG (hopefully) painted to match the rest of the train.

 

The 6 diagram 723 BPOT with large type windows were used on the Paddington-Penzance TPO - 2 in each set and 2 spare.

 

The 3 later diagram 733 BPOT with small windows (that were featured in the Invicta photo) were used on the London-Glasgow/Aberdeen TPO - 1 in each set and 1 spare.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just a point on the Penzance-Paddington postal the sorting vans were actually diagram 721 - similar to the Bachmann diagram 720 but with two small doors instead of the traducer arms and net opening.  The other side identical.  The formation throughout the 70's was BPOT dia 723/POS 721/POT 726 with radio pod/721/721/723 plus various GUVs added/taken off along the way.  Later on in the 80's a dia 727 was added at the Paddington end.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.