N Gauge Wagons - PXA / FEA-(BEFS) / KTA / KFA / Binliners

[Vonzack]

Hi,

 

Just a quick update as the test print of the FEA-B arrived yesterday. Initial impressions are good, the print has come out very well. I've taken some photo's against a version from Dapol to give a better feel for how it looks.

 

I only have a single printed FEA-B bogie at the moment, so the other end of the wagon looks a little higher than it should be. The deck height at the end with the printed bogie is exactly the same as the Dapol version. The headstocks are about 0.5mm too low and this means the buffers are out of alignment, so I'll increase the height a little to make sure everything lines up.

 

A close up of the printed bogie, which uses Parkside Dundas 5.1mm wheels and top hat bearings.

 

 

I've had to increase the deck height around the bogies as there was a little flexing, taken the container locating holes away as they needed to be a little larger and the outside deck walls would then have been too thin, increased the support material where the inter wagon drawbar goes (as I broke one of them whilst cleaning) and beefed up the drawbar as it was a bit weedy. Added a recess in the headstocks for a Dapol NEM coupler pocket and fixed a printing problem with the air tank, as it had an open mesh and only 2/3 of it printed.

 

Cheers, Mark.

Edited October 11, 2013 by Vonzack

[Steadfast]

Hi Mark,

The FEA looks great, certainly a better shape than the Dapol attempt. One thing that jumps out at me, are you're 0.5mm lower buffers actually the correct height? The headstock on the Dapol is massively overheight so I wonder if this affects the buffer height on them? Just a thought that may save you a redesign!

 

jo

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Mark

 

The FEA does look good, and can I suggest you do a version with the headstocks as both ends, as this is something that is currently unavailable.

 

The bogies are hard to judge because they are white; however some materials at Shapeways can be printed in black - we just had some coal loads printed in a *black* product that is very strong, surprisingly flexible and not too expensive.

 

Also, the axle boxes should "protrude" more, so you could either make the whole bogie frame narrower, or maybe have a cosmetic axlebox cover and the brass top hat bearings just push in from the back?

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

 

(Edited to change white to black!)

Edited October 15, 2013 by Ben A

[Vonzack]

Hi,

 

@ewsjo - I've been checking the buffer heights against the Dapol model to be honest, I think I may need to compromise the look of the headstocks to get the buffers to align with other N Gauge stock. I have another test print on the way including bogies, so I'll be able to work out what the solution would be when it all arrives. Hopefully towards the end of the week.

 

@Ben - I'll look at doing the version with headstocks at both ends, it shouldn't need much revision from the one I have. The bogies were test printed in white, the ones I have on order now use the same material but are black, so they should give a better impression. I left the holes for the 'top hats' open so that I didn't have any problems fitting them, as I've had to thicken up the bogie sides a little, I can look to add back in the axle boxes, these can be simple domes so should print OK.

 

Cheers, Mark.

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Mark

 

One other thing - does your FEA-B have a flat lower edge to the buffers?  On such a low wagon the buffers are quite visible, and this is a clear feature.  You may have replicated this; the FUD makes it hard to see for sure.

 

Photo here:  http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/F/FEA-Intermodal-flats/FEA-B-Intermodal-Flats#!/i-bGfkvzp/A

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[roundhouse]

Mark

 

If you fit the coupling to the wagon rather than the bogie it might limit the radius that it can go round.

 

Another option for tighter curves might be ot include an optional arm for the bogie with a vertical edge to which the Dapol converter box couod be glued.

 

Ian

[Revolution Ben]

And a better photo showing the buffers here: http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/F/FEA-Intermodal-flats/FEA-B-Intermodal-Flats#!/i-ggqH4qb/A

 

The single unit versions - both Freightliner FEA-E, Network Rail FEA-F and FEA-S "Slingers" - also have this feature:

 

FEA-E:  http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/F/FEA-Intermodal-flats/FEA-E-Freightliner-single-unit#!/i-tqbPPB2/A

 

FEA-F (best shot yet):  http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/F/FEA-Intermodal-flats/FEA-F-Network-Rail-RHTT-flats#!/i-zsGzJMZ/A

 

FEA-S: http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/F/FEA-Intermodal-flats/FEA-S-intermodal-flats#!/i-gnCdTSz/A

 

The buffers are an area which Dapol didn't get right, and the proportions of your bufferbeam look better than Dapol's effort.  Their bogies are pretty good IMO; I'd be tempted to ensure their pivots fit your wagon so people can choose whether to use the Dapol bogies or yours.

 

I'd certainly be in for a pair of the single unit versions for RHTT trains.  On the N Gauge Forum a group are producing the RHTT modules and I have done the decals; I included on the sheet several of the FEA-F TOPS panels.  Their plan is to produce a glue-on additional end to convert Dapol FEA-Bs but I think if you did a single unit wagon I'd opt for that.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[Revolution Mike]

Hi Mark

 

I would get your's right rather than trying to match to Dapol's - you have corrected the outrigger locations so it would be a shame to compromise on the headstocks.

 

I agree with Ben in that I would rather use your correct single unit FEAs when you produce them than convert an incorrect Dapol twin set.

 

Cheers, Mike

[Vonzack]

Hi Guys,

 

@Ben - The buffers should be correct now, they have flat bottoms and a more pronounced curve at the top, the others had been taken from my KTA model. The FEA-E / F / S wagons all look very similar when considering the basic shape and larger detail items. I think the only thing I can see to set them apart are the Twistlock Arms, the FEA-F has the underside of the support arms covered, whereas the others have them open.

 

I'll wait for the next test print to see how the buffer heights etc work out. It's a tough call and I guess that's the problem Dapol had. You can't really lower the wheels in the bogie or lower the bogies from the wagon deck as these are really focal points and would make the wagon look odd. Their compromise of increasing the headstocks, means that the buffers align with other N Gauge stock.

 

That's not a bad idea with the bogies and it would be easy enough to produce a version which would accommodate either my printed ones or the Dapol Bogies for people who wanted to. I'll keep that very much in mind. 

 

I'll try and get in touch with the guys doing the RHTT, they're modules look great and as I only work a few hundred yards from the York servicing depot, It's something I would like to model.

 

@Ian - Hopefully when the latest test print arrives, I can mess around with the couplers and see what curves they will work on. The Dapol ones seem OK on R1 with wagon mounted couplers and I've designed the print to use their NEM Pockets, so they should be OK. If not though I could certainly look at other options, maybe something like the US Micro Trains 89' TOFC, where the bogie has a detachable arm with the coupler on the end.

 

Here's a pick of an initial FEA-E, which is a real cut'n'shut of the FEA-B, hope the welds hold ;-)

 

 

Cheers, Mark.

[roundhouse]

Mark

 

I was forgetting that the Dapol ones are mounted on the body.

With the Dapol Easi shunt couplers they go round 11.5" radius curves on Banbury.

 

Ian

[roundhouse]

I left the primer to dry for a week after spraying the pocket wagon but after adding the enamel blue coat it had remained tacky for a bout a week, so I gave it a couple of passes with Dullcote last night.

This morning the paint seems to have dried better so I may be able to continue working on the wagon tonight.

The blue may not be the correct shade but by the time I have weathered it, very little blue eill be visible.

Hoping to have it working on Banbury this weekend and also at Wycrail the following weekend.

[Revolution Ben]

Hi Ian

 

That is looking really good.  I have sprayed one of BTMH trains' IQAs and that stayed tacky for a good 3 weeks before eventually drying!  You may want to put on some Klear or gloss varnish before applying decals.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

[roundhouse]

Ben

 

The acryiic spray I used on the Network rail vehicles is fine but enamel does seem to be an issue.

 

Sometimes the Dullcote dries gloss so I may be lucky otherwise I will add a gloss varnish prior to adding decals.

 

I ought ot try getting some Johnsons Klear next time I am in a Supermarket.

 

Ian

Edited October 22, 2013 by roundhouse

[roundhouse]

Last night I applied a gloss varnish to the pocket wagon.

This morning it was slightly tacky but managed to get the decals on one side.

However in the process the paint on the other side came off in a few places onto my fingers.

Looks like it will still take a few weeks to dry.

Still hope to have it running this weekend but the weathering will have to wait a few weeks.

[Vonzack]

Hi Guys,

 

It's been a little while since my last post, but I've received the latest test prints from Shapeways for the FEA-B + bogies and the KFA.

 

FEA-B Bogies

 

After the last set of test bogies, it was fairly evident, that although they had good running quality, the bogie sides were way too flexible and needed to be stiffened up. After looking at the clearances on the test print, there was plenty of room to thicken the sides slightly (without making the bogies any wider) and to also add some fillets running from the centre of the bogie onto each of the arms.

 

I'd also designed my bogies to make use of Parkside 'Top Hat' bearings, but after seeing a few comments about this not being necessary, I amended the drawings and ran off a set of bogies with printed bearings. To my surprise, these actually seem to work better than using the 'Top Hats' and roll very smoothly using Parkside wheels.

 

The only downside is that the detail is a little lacking, but I'm not sure this is a big loss as at a normal viewing distance much of the detail you would get with a moulded bogie wouldn't be seen anyway.

 

 

 

 

Video of a rolling test -

 

FEA-B

 

The wagon is really starting to come together, this print had fixes for the deck depth around the bogies, which was a little too thin, a larger drawbar with more solid guide supports (as I less than carefully removed one when cleaning last time), revised headstocks as the buffer heights were out of alignment and a recess in the headstocks to fit a Dapol NEM coupler.

 

Increasing the deck depth has introduced a problem, as the wheel flanges are now clashing with the bottom of the deck, so I'll have to remove a little of this material again for the next version. Also the buffers are still incorrect as the print was ordered before those changes were made.

 

Good news is that the mods for the drawbar, buffer height and coupler recess were all fine.

 

 

 

KFA

 

The last print of the KFA looked good and quite close to the prototype, but structurally the ends of the wagon were weak. So the majority of the changes here were to stiffen up the chassis without losing the 'skeletal' look. Here are a few pics the latest prototype.

 

 

 

 

 

I need to make a small revision to the headstocks to accommodate the Dapol NEM, but otherwise it looks OK on NGS Y25 bogies with Parkside 5.1mm wheels.

 

Cheers, Mark.

 

 

 

 

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi Mark,

 

Very impressed with your KFA and FEA-B. I'm definitely in the market for the former, and quite possibly the latter - certainly if you do it in single unit variant.

 

What did you decide to do about weight in the KFA?

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[Vonzack]

Hi Ben,

 

I'm going to order an FEA-E or F with the next test prints, so hopefully in a week or two I should have a sample. Looking at the various FEA-E / F / S variants, I have a few detail questions that I hope people might be able to help me with, which are:

• The FEA-E and FEA-S, to me look exactly the same, apart from FEA-S Network Rail units (look like welded rail delivery or removal units) where the buffer beam extends down a little further to accommodate some steps for access to the wagon.
• The FEA-F units have the module / container support arms with a closed construction, rather than the open one seen on the FEA-E / S.

It's possible to fit a brass bar into the spine as I've left it open, so you should be able to add enough weight to ensure correct running without too many problems. The Yorkshire Area Group of the NGS is holding it's open weekend in York today and tomorrow and I'll have the FEA-B and KFA there and hopefully get an idea of how well they work on their own and mixed in with other stock. 

 

Cheers, Mark.

[Revolution Ben]

 

Hi Mark,

 

As far as I can seen the head stocks and ribs on the FEA-S are pretty much identical to those on the FEA-B you've already done. I'd start with these as a simple hit.

 

TBH for me the differences between these and type FEA-F are so subtle that I'd be happy to accept the compromise.

 

Of course, if you're minded to do a "proper" FEA-F then so much the better!

 

For the KFA, will the brass centre weight simply push fit? Is it designed to fit a standard size?

 

Cheers

 

Ben A.

[roundhouse]

The a Pocket wagon is running rather nicely sitting just behind the loco with a rake of containers behind it.

[njee20]

Looks great, as does the KFA, nice job! Fellow cyclist too!

[Vonzack]

For the KFA, will the brass centre weight simply push fit? Is it designed to fit a standard size?

 

Hi,

 

@Ben, The spine is basically two walls and has a 3mm high, x 2mm wide void, so should accommodate a piece of brass bar easily. The model does have some struts (5) between the walls of the spine to make sure it prints OK, so a couple of these may need removing so that the bar can be slid into place.

 

@Ian, Wow that looks fantastic, thanks for posting the pic. Need to get a break in the weather to get some colour on mine.

 

I had the prototype KFA running on our layout yesterday along with the FEA-B and they both ran really well over the trackwork and round generous bends, but I'm having a problem with smaller radius curves (<18") as the Dapol couplings seem to be very tight and take allot of force to move them from side to side. With the wagons being so light, they end up derailing.

 

I think the problem is the strength of the plastic arms that are meant to keep the coupling straight. These seem to be very stiff and need more force to move than those fitted to Dapols RTR stock. I fitted 4 in total and they all seem to be the same, so I'd rule out any one off issue. I'm sure there's a Doh! moment waiting for me with this one.

 

Cheers, Mark.

Edited October 28, 2013 by Vonzack

[roundhouse]

Mark

 

The Dapol boxes and couplings seem to work fine on my 11.5" radius curves.

 

One thing to watch with the Dapol conversion boxes is that the spigots on the inner box tend to protrude slightly beyond the outer box. I tend to drill a suitable size drill bit into the wagon so the inner box can rotate a bit more freely.

 

Ian

[Vonzack]

Hi Ian,

 

Yes, that sounds exactly like what I am experiencing with the coupling pockets. If the spigots are proud of the pocket, then they will be fouling the underside of the recess I created on the wagon. I'll remove the inners tonight and carefully file away the top of the spigot to see if that helps. If that's the fix, I'll add a further little recess to accomodate the spiggot.

 

The other thing I noted, was that on the RTR FEA-B, the Pocket is allot wider than the ones in the replacement kits Dapol sell, so it means that the inners are able to swing further. It shouldn't be too much trouble to remove a little bit of material from the pocket sides to fix this, but hopefully I'll see if it's actually required tonight. My target is to get the wagons to run on R1 (9") curves without problems.

 

Cheers, Mark.

[Revolution Mike]

Great work Mark!

 

Looking forward to getting some KFAs.

 

Cheers, Mike

[roundhouse]

I have fitted the Dapol conversion pockets to Farish mk3's TEA tanks and Container flats. They all go round the curves on Banbury. However they are all bogie mounted.

 

I think that the paint has now dried on the KFA so hopefulyl will be able to weather it in the next day or two.

 

Ian