Andy Evans Posted October 29, 2013 Share Posted October 29, 2013 Hi Mark, Amazing work with all your wagons, I am just wondering how your EcoFrets are progressing? Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted October 29, 2013 Author Share Posted October 29, 2013 Hi, I managed to have a quick look at the couplings again last night and after filing a little of the spiggots away from the Dapol Inner, the couplings moved from side to side freely. I've updated the wagon CADs to include an additional recess above the coupling pockets which should be enough to accomodate an unmodified Dapol NEM coupling. Thanks to Ian for the advice on that one. With the couplings modified, the FEA-B was happy enough to negotiate R2 curves (10 3/8") using Dapol long dummy knuckle couplings. Interestingly, the Dapol RTR version with the same couplings won't do any better and derails on R1 (9"). I intend to test with the NEM Rapido couplings as well, to see if they are better or worse. The KFA with the same modifications and couplings still had problems with R1 / R2 curves, until I added a 5p (google informs me this is 3.25g) to the centre of the deck, which added enough weight to stop the deck twisting and derailing. Given the void in the spine of the wagon, this would mean adding a brass bar of 70mm x 3mm x 2mm to provide a little more weight than the 5p. @Andy, to be honest, I shelved the EcoFrets for a little while because I couldn't source bogies for them. But now I've been able to 3D Print bogies for the FEA I can pick up the work. There's still quite a bit to do on them, the deck shape I'm happy with. I need to apply the lessons learned from the FEA to stiffen the deck where the bogies fit and use the drawbars. Add as much detail as I can bearing in mind I'm constrained by the properties of Shapeways FUD. Mock up some bogies for them, which from memory are quite angular so that may be one of the easier bits, etc. Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted October 29, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 29, 2013 Mark The Windhoff MPV 3 d bogies are designed to take a Kato truck pickup and bearings with Kato wheels. This might be a good solution to avoid the 3D wearing out but does add extra cost to each wagon. I am waiting for the Kato bogies to arrive then I can post a photo. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSTFAN13 Posted October 30, 2013 Share Posted October 30, 2013 Hi, Just a quick update as I've been making some more progress with the IIA-D. I've put the hydraulic lifting gear on the wagon ends to open the roof doors and mocked up a chassis with the tipping doors. Still lots to do, but getting there. Biomass Wagon.jpg Also had a note from shapeways, the KFA has printed (hopefully it doesn't look like a melted curly wurly) along with the test prints for the FEA-B bogies in WSF. I was hoping to get the FEA-B too, but that was rejected for having a wall under 0.6mm. Cheers, Mark. Any plans to scale up to OO Gauge the Drax IIA-D and Ecofret Wagons? HSTFAN13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted October 31, 2013 Author Share Posted October 31, 2013 Hi HSTFan13, I'm afraid I don't have any plans to scale them up at the moment. To be honest I think I would struggle to scale them up and make them work correctly, as I don't have any OO stock for reference (bogies, buffer heights, couplings). Then there are the technical problems as you can't just scale up the drawings, you need to change the wall depths and may have to put more strengthening into the wagon to make sure it prints correctly. It may be worthwhile having a chat with 'Wild Boar Fell' on this forum, as he produces some very nice looking 3D printed OO wagons. Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted October 31, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 31, 2013 I weathered the KFA yesterday morning. The thinned enamel attacked the paint underneath through the Dulcoat but luckily its still looks fine and appears to be drying OK. Still needs the brake wheels adding. I will probably use arcylics on 3D prints from now on as my experimenting on other 3D prints seems to have worked with some acrylics purchased from Ian Allen at Waterloo. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted November 1, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 1, 2013 The weathered KFA. Needs a bit more weathering but that will have to wait a few weeks to let the paint fully harden. This wagon will be hard at work running on Banbury tomorrow at Wycrail. Ian 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSTFAN13 Posted November 1, 2013 Share Posted November 1, 2013 Hi HSTFan13, I'm afraid I don't have any plans to scale them up at the moment. To be honest I think I would struggle to scale them up and make them work correctly, as I don't have any OO stock for reference (bogies, buffer heights, couplings). Then there are the technical problems as you can't just scale up the drawings, you need to change the wall depths and may have to put more strengthening into the wagon to make sure it prints correctly. It may be worthwhile having a chat with 'Wild Boar Fell' on this forum, as he produces some very nice looking 3D printed OO wagons. Cheers, Mark. Cheers, many thanks for your reply I have asked wild boar models and he said he might in the future HSTFAN13 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Hi, I'm also working on an IOA, similar to the KTA I'm waiting for the test print to arrive from Shapeways. IOA Wagon (Top).jpg IOA Wagon (Bottom).jpg Cheers, Mark. Hi Mark, I am doing a few HO scale models. I will need to make my own bogies for them. Just wanted to know how do you fit your bogies to the models? Do you use a screw or does the bogie slip on and the you use a sort of cap/clip to hold it in place? Cheers, Jeremiah. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted November 7, 2013 Author Share Posted November 7, 2013 Hi Jeremiah, I ended up using a compatible system that the Farish and N Gauge Society bogies use. The bogie has a whole in the center and when in position, rotates around a raised post on the wagon chasis. The post then has a whole in the centre to accept a pin, which then keeps the bogie in place. If you look back at some of the images in the thread, you should be able to piece together what I've done. Note that I fit a small washer between the bogie and the wagon, to prevent any possibility of wear. If you are planning to use FUD for your models, I'd consider doing something similar even in HO, as the material can be quite brittle and you would risk splitting the post when you put the screw in. Also, you will find that if you take something sharp to a FUD model and scratch the surface it will come away quite easily. If you managed to get a screw into the post without it splitting, you may strip the thread if you over tighten it. Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Multiple identity account 2 Posted November 7, 2013 Share Posted November 7, 2013 Thanks... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted November 21, 2013 Author Share Posted November 21, 2013 Hi Guys, Apologies for being quiet over the last few weeks, but I had some real difficulties getting the FEA-F to print which I eventually traced back to my cut'n'shut attempts. I'd inadvertently rotated one of the sections 180.01 degrees which opened up the mesh on the model. Top tip here though, whenever you are drawing anything with sketchup watch out for any measurements that have a '~' next to the number, as this usually indicates that the point isn't correctly aligned with other parts of your model. Anyway, after fixing and uploading the model, I sent for a test print which I received yesterday. Unfortunately the print has arrived rather bowed, but I'm hoping I can straighten it out with some hot water. Despite the bowing though, the model looks OK and the modifications for the Dapol coupling pockets and to stop the bogies fouling the body all seem to have worked OK. There are some pics attached. Cheers, Mark. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted November 21, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 21, 2013 (edited) Mark Thats looking good. A few containers glued on it might help straighten it out. Where did you get the bogies from in the end? The paint on the KFA now seems to have dried and its working well so will be ordering more fairly soon. Ian Edited November 21, 2013 by roundhouse Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 Hi Ian, I'm using the same bogies as for the FEA-B, so they are the printed ones, but these don't need top hat bearings. So they just need some Parkside 5.1mm wheels adding. The KFA looks great, you've done a great job there. Still waiting to get a hold of some Y25s with NEM Pockets for mine, but I have a nice light blue acrylic spray, so I can get the body painted. Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted January 10, 2014 Author Share Posted January 10, 2014 Hi Guys, It's been quite a while since I had any updates to share, but I've finally sorted out the niggles with the models and they are now running reliably. Here's some video of 2 KFA's and an FEA-F (used for RHTT trains) negotiating an R2 curve on my test track. The KFA uses Y25 bogies (N Gauge Society or ATM), the FEA-F uses my printed bogies (FEA-B/E/F/S) and both require 5.1mm wheels from Parkside. Along with these wagons the FEA-B and FEA-E/S are also ready. Cheers, Mark. 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted January 11, 2014 Author Share Posted January 11, 2014 (edited) Hi Guys, I had the opportunity to do a bit more track testing with the models today at our club meeting. The KFAs, FEA-B and some KTAs going through their paces on Heworth Sidings. Also a few shots of the underside of the wagons, the KFA and FEAs have a void in the spine where brass bar can be inserted if they need weighing down. Cheers, Mark. Edited January 11, 2014 by Vonzack 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold roundhouse Posted January 11, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 11, 2014 Mark That's certainly a good test running them backwards etc. Ian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted January 22, 2014 Author Share Posted January 22, 2014 (edited) Hi Guys, There are a fair few KFA's and FEA-F's on their way to people at the moment, so I thought I'd do a quick post detailing the mods required for the Dapol NEM Pocket couplings. The NEM Pockets come in 2 basic parts, there is the outer which attaches to the chassis of a wagon or a bogie and an inner, which clips into the outer and allows the coupling to move from side to side. The coupling would then clip into the inner. Outer Pocket Modification Although the inner of the pocket allows the coupling to swing from side to side, the width of the outer pocket limits this movement somewhat. For short wheel based wagons or for stock where this pocket is attached to a bogie, the width of the pocket is fine. However, the KFA and FEA's with a chassis mounted coupling, end up having quite an overhang from the bogie and this means the coupling must move a greater distance, it can't and the stock is just pulled from the rails. Dapol in effect provided a solution for this with their FEA-B, if you compare it's outer pocket with that of the replacement kit, you can see that its a good bit wider and this allows the coupling to move that little bit further and keeps everything running nicely. With a small modification the outer pocket from the replacement kit can be made to do the same. I've sketched out a standard (left) and modified (right) outer pocket from the replacement kit. You can see that the outer has some walls and these effectively stop the inner pocket from moving too far. If these walls are filed away carefully, so that the lower surface is flat and matches the upper surface you will find that the inner pocket can now move freely from side to side. The modification effectively doubles the lateral movement of the coupling and the results are as good as, if not better than the Dapol FEA-B's coupling pocket. Inner Pocket Modification (if required) The inner pocket has two 'whiskers' which stick out either side of the moulding and these keep the coupling in a central position. In running tests I found that even though these exert little force, there is still enough to drag the empty wagon from the rails as these models weigh so little. To stop the couplings moving back to centre, simply remove the 'whiskers'. The inner pocket on the left is unmodified, the one on the right has been modified. If you are planning to add containers to these models, then this modification may not be required as the containers themselves (Dapol / Bachmann) add a significant amount of weight or they can be weighted further. I hope this info helps, if there's anything you need to ask or if I've not been clear, please either PM me or use the forum. Cheers, Mark. Edited January 22, 2014 by Vonzack Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted January 27, 2014 Author Share Posted January 27, 2014 Hi, I've just spent a few hours roughing out the overall shape of an MJA. Mainly just the dimensions and side ribbing of the wagon at the moment but here it is. All pictures I've seen of these have them running in twin-sets, as far as I can tell. Does anybody know if that's the case? Cheers, Mark. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted January 28, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2014 (edited) Hi Mark, I am pretty sure the Freightliner MJAs run as permanently coupled twin sets, with buffers at the outer ends only and bar couplers between the "inner" ends. There's a drawing here, though I suspect you already have it: http://www.gbrx.com/General_Purpose_Wagons.php?expandable=1 Will you 3D print the bogies too? I think they're the same type as used on Freightliner's bogie hoppers. Such a shame they aren't available as spares! Btw you are aware that Dapol announced these about 3 years ago? Admittedly, they've shown no evidence of any progress so far... Cheers Ben A. Edited January 28, 2014 by Ben A Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted January 28, 2014 Author Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hi Ben, Yes, that's the document I've worked from to get the overall dimensions and Martyn's excellent pictures for the closer detail's. I think I've got 3D Printed bogies cracked now as long as I use the Laser Sintering process. The material is flexible and hard wearing enough to accommodate axles without any 'top hat' bearings. They will lack some detail as the current printing processes are just unable to do it, but the CAD models are detailed, so who knows one of these days we might get everything. The TF25 bogies are also used on the IOA-E which I've modelled, so another reason to do them. I hadn't realised Dapol still had designs on doing them. I pre-ordered some from a shop a while back, but cancelled the order when the product codes were verified and they turned out to be the 'OO' versions. Oh well, at least I'll have some in a few months. Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Revolution Ben Posted January 28, 2014 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hi Mark I have not seen any progess from Dapol on the MJAs, though they have shown development prototypes of the IOAs and Falcons. Having said that, the first shots still required much work. I can't see an MJA appearing before Warley TBH. Alternatively, have you thought about some of the earlier box wagons that are still in service? The Tiphook JRAs or ex-TML KEAs ones would seem particularly useful: TML KEAs: http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/K-Tops-codes/KEA-ex-TML-bogie-boxes/ Tiphook JRAs: http://ukrailwaypics.smugmug.com/UKRailRollingstock/J-/JRA-Tiphook-box-wagons/ BTW delighted with the Tiphook KFAs I bought, and looking forward to putting them into a service on an MoD train for Horseley Fields. cheers Ben A. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSTFAN13 Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Hi Mark I Wondered if you have done anymore work on the Drax IIA-D Wagons? HSTFAN13 Lee Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vonzack Posted January 29, 2014 Author Share Posted January 29, 2014 Hi Lee, I put the IIA-D aside to finish off the KFA and FEAs. I still need to have a re-think about how to produce this. At the moment, I think the best way forward is to produce the chassis and upper body using laser sintering, as printing in FUD would be very expensive. It would mean that the wagon would need some work to get a nice smooth surface, but the shape of the wagon should help with any sanding. I'd then FUD print the brake system and lifting gear. I'm working on the TF25 bogies at the moment, which I think this wagon uses from the pics I've seen, so it's still on my horizon. Cheers, Mark. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glorious NSE Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 I am pretty sure the Freightliner MJAs run as permanently coupled twin sets, with buffers at the outer ends only and bar couplers between the "inner" ends. There's a drawing here, though I suspect you already have it: Yep, the "production" batch is all bar coupled twin sets - but there are a pair, 502199 and 502200 which are 'singles' - and I think built to test different bogies. "Production" batch 502055 - showing inner end bar coupling: The original of this on my site is a bit dark, so this is a cropped and over-brightened shot of "standalone" 502199 with the first bogie variant - 502199 carries Freightliner logo's. 502200 has this bogie variant - and although it has the plate on the side i'm not sure this one has ever carried the Freightliner logo. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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