EFE tube stock wheels

[metmangraham]

I am ever trying to look for cheap ways to improve the running of my motorised EFE tube stock trains. I am not a particularly competent model modifier, though.

 

Romford (or whoever runs them now) do cheap pairs of 10.5 mm disc wheel sets with 'inside bearings'. Knowing how the wheels are fitted to the EFE bogies (and yes I have already removed the governor springs), does the 'inside bearing' mechanism mean that fitting these would improve the running of the cars making up an EFE tube train?

 

Forgive my ignorance in asking such a probably elementary (stupid?!) question. I am extending my trains from 4- to 7-car sets, and whilst twin Tenshodo motors will happily drive 4 cars-worth with the original EFE bogies (no springs), they baulk at 7!

 

I know another alternative is to fit an extra motorised bogie to the additional 3-car unit, but this is comparatively expensive.

[SRman]

I used Steam Era wheels from here in Australia but the principle is the same. They did improve the running a bit but there is still a lot of friction from the axles running in the EFE channels. Either some sort of proper inside bearings are needed or pin point axles and outside bearings. One Black Beetle motor bogie could happily move a three car unit but struggled with a four car set, especially up a slight gradient.

 

I now have some Metro Models bogie innards to fit, which will allow for pin point axles. Those should allow the four car set to run properly for me.

[Xerces Fobe2]

Forget using the EFE bogies as they are and fit Metromodels bogies which utilise the side-frames of the existing EFE bogies

 

http://www.metromodels.net

 

 

XF

[Ian Fisher]

Steam era (from the people who make Black beetle?) Are very fine wheels. I bought a load from Andy Mullins years back.

 

Quality product.

 

I used Steam Era wheels from here in Australia but the principle is the same. They did improve the running a bit but there is still a lot of friction from the axles running in the EFE channels. Either some sort of proper inside bearings are needed or pin point axles and outside bearings.

 

I now have some Metro Models bogie innards to fit, which will allow for pin point axles.

[GoingUnderground]

THe problem is that SPUDs are relatively highly geared and low powered whilst the EFE bodies are no lightweights. It isn't helped as you said by the lack of any sort of bearing in the bogies. John Polley's bogies may be your best bet to reduce the rolling resistance. You may find it useful to add more weight to whichever cars have the SPUDs to increase their adhesion, which is also a problem on any sort of incline.

[metmangraham]

THe problem is that SPUDs are relatively highly geared and low powered whilst the EFE bodies are no lightweights. It isn't helped as you said by the lack of any sort of bearing in the bogies. John Polley's bogies may be your best bet to reduce the rolling resistance. You may find it useful to add more weight to whichever cars have the SPUDs to increase their adhesion, which is also a problem on any sort of incline.

Yes, I have found weights absolutely essential, and have run 4- and 5-car sets for a long time, each train still with the original EFE bogies (minus the springs) but with a lot of lead in the powered car. I could fit John  Polley's bogies (or more likely, have them fitted!), but I suddenly realised how cheap pairs of 'Romford' replacements would be, and wondered whether some improvement in running might result from fitting them.

 

My original intention was to fit (have fitted!) a single motor bogie into the driving car of a 3-car extension set, and run a 7-car set powered by 3 motor bogies. Six cars, each with the Romford wheels would be cheaper (and I could do it myself), so it was just a passing thought that I could avoid using a third motor bogie but run a 7-car set 'on the cheap'!

 

From the advice received overall, perhaps the replacement wheels would not work!

[Metr0Land]

The John Polley bogies are fairly straightforwards.  I think they look more complicated than they are.  If you take your time doing a pair on one car and fettle them in, then subsequent cars shouldn't cause any angst.

 

BTW I don't know if anyone's ever managed to put an Endo motor in EFE tube stock.  Last time I spoke to JP he didn't know of anyone who had.  They are very powerful and I have one in my 4 car Q stock set (which admittedly has more space to play with).  If anything it's over-powered and I have trouble keeping the set realistically slow!  If you could put one in tube stock plus using the JP bogies for rest of set I should imagine one would be good enough for 7 cars.

[GoingUnderground]

Here is a tip that was given to me by Mike Radford of MARC Models many years ago.

 

If you are going to use the EFE bogies, then insert a piece of wire in the bogie shaped like a paper clip, thus |_| between the underside of the bogie and the axle so that the axle rests on the two side arms of the U shaped piece of wire. These side arms then act as the bearing, but having a lower contact area with the axle than the plastic of the bogie itself have reduced friction. It does reduce the friction quite considerably, but is not as good as pinpoint axles.

 

You could do this with wheelsets other than the EFE ones, which are pretty terrible, but to be fair they were only intended for a static model.

 

The piece of U shaped wire technque does have another advantage. I adapted it to use it as a low friction additional pick-up. Hence my Tube Stock picks up from every wheelset on every car in the set as I've linked them all together to form a bus running the length of the train. It never stalls on pointwork.

[metmangraham]

The John Polley bogies are fairly straightforwards.  I think they look more complicated than they are.  If you take your time doing a pair on one car and fettle them in, then subsequent cars shouldn't cause any angst.

 

BTW I don't know if anyone's ever managed to put an Endo motor in EFE tube stock.  Last time I spoke to JP he didn't know of anyone who had.  They are very powerful and I have one in my 4 car Q stock set (which admittedly has more space to play with).  If anything it's over-powered and I have trouble keeping the set realistically slow!  If you could put one in tube stock plus using the JP bogies for rest of set I should imagine one would be good enough for 7 cars.

OK, thanks. I might trial a pair of JP bogies and see how I get on. Mind you 'straightforwards' to you may be less so to me, but I'm grateful for the little push you've given me!

[metmangraham]

Here is a tip that was given to me by Mike Radford of MARC Models many years ago.

 

If you are going to use the EFE bogies, then insert a piece of wire in the bogie shaped like a paper clip, thus |_| between the underside of the bogie and the axle so that the axle rests on the two side arms of the U shaped piece of wire. These side arms then act as the bearing, but having a lower contact area with the axle than the plastic of the bogie itself have reduced friction. It does reduce the friction quite considerably, but is not as good as pinpoint axles.

 

You could do this with wheelsets other than the EFE ones, which are pretty terrible, but to be fair they were only intended for a static model.

 

The piece of U shaped wire technque does have another advantage. I adapted it to use it as a low friction additional pick-up. Hence my Tube Stock picks up from every wheelset on every car in the set as I've linked them all together to form a bus running the length of the train. It never stalls on pointwork.

What a good idea! I'll try that before having a go with constructing a couple of John Polley bogies (mentioned above by GoingUnderground).

 

I have not had any stalling difficulties, but I like the idea of a continuous pick-up!

 

Thanks.