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jcredfer

Light Switches? ... Turning the Tables...

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I have chosen to bow to circumstances and set my first toy railway layout to one side, but not forgotten. It WILL have to change ‘though - but more of that another time.

 

It seemed better to make a smaller layout, which could be very portable and brought into action quickly. As a result the “Sandwich, with Sides and Tea” was created - ‘though not yet completed - in line with other modelers' traditions  .......   :drag:

 

Not a very ambitious project but with the right size Sidings and Head Shunt - it makes for an entertaining Shunting Puzzle. Not my idea but inspired by the Inglenton, shown in the Aug 13 Hornby mag [75] and spotted at Melksham, Bentley, Train-west Exhibition a couple of years ago -web here - 

http://ingletonsidings.com/  and based on - http://www.wymann.info/ShuntingPuzzles/sw-inglenook.html 

 

 

8533331723_00c4bced8d_c.jpg
DSC_0044 by JulianR 2013, on Flickr

 

 

It is pretty obvious that the “Sandwich” is thin 3mm Ply for the bread and 40mm foam for the filling. The “Sides” comprise 3 Sidings and a Head Shunt. The “Tea” is simply the copious quantities which were consumed during contemplation and production. The layout is enough  to provide satisfaction for many a mealtime  - “For the 3rd time, dinner is on the table and if you don’t get in here within the next 30 seconds, it will be in the dog!!”

 

Construction of the Board is relatively easy and it can be made in a variety of sizes and shapes. It is strong enough to stand on and a similar larger one [at 4’ x 3 ‘] deflected only C 1mm when stood on and supported at the ends. [Amazing risks some people will take for their children  ……. ]   :swoon:

 

It is clearly away from the traditional 16 Ton Tess,  -  6’ x 4’ frame braced every 2ft by 2” x 1” topped with 12mm Ply, with reinforced 4” x 4” legs. Nothing really wrong with that and used for many years  ……   but "Stevenson", rather than "Airborne" Rocket science ……….   :derisive:

 

Easy to stick with - "well it worked for my Dad and his before him" .  On the other hand on quite a few Threads, people have stated their requirement for a lightweight Base-board, for a number of perfectly sensible reasons and looking for a new solution to their requirement - BUT - when the Sandwich was mentioned ...............  “That looks a good idea  ...   but  ..... “   ……..  and out comes the 3' x 1" frame  ………..  

 

WHICH ........  got me to wondering  how many other new ideas there have been in recent times  ..........   :dontknow:  ………..  with the WOOSH factor    ………..    :banghead:

 

 

J

Edited by jcredfer
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I glued my 25mm extruded polystyrene foam onto a minimal 42x18mm dressed pine frame. The result is amazingly strong, incredibly light and totally excellent for my upcoming RC railway which is about to start. (Boards and supports are built ready for track.)

 

For lightweight, strong baseboard materials, there is nothing wrong with looking at the building industry. The extruded polystyrene sheets are sold in Australia as wall insulation. And I could probably stand on it if there was a sandwich either side as well!!!

 

How have you wired up the layout? I am reluctant to punch holes through the base which is why I have gone to RC. More importantly, how are you operating the points?

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Cool - the sandwich concept really works well. I have gone too far with the boards for my current layout but I am adding a cardboard/PVC sheet over the top so I can lay track and have something to lock the scenery down onto. Your idea is better as it does away with the wooden frame altogether (almost the same cost as the polystyrene for each board). The only down side I can see over here is the 25mm sheet is around $11 but the 50mm sheet is of course twice that price but the timber costs are around $9 (fixed cost) for each module.

 

That makes each of my modules using 25mm sheet worth around $20 + fixings and the 50mm bases worth around $22 + plywood. I would imagine the sandwich you are using is actually even stronger than even a 50mm sheet on a timber frame as my sheet is totally unsupported in the centre until you cover it with something. Definitely food for thought here.

 

(And as for the tennis shot, I had that as a poster in the 70s. Not sure where it is now...)

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Morning, J. :drag:

 

Ah..!..Trying to fly in, under the radar, you "old",jump jet jockey.

 

Your second solo flight......feel good ?

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Hi All,

Artizen - the foam is pretty much as effective in 25 mm but rather better at 40mm. I have made a larger board at [i think 3' 6" x 4' 6", as I am on holiday] it will definitely work in larger sizes up to 8' x 4' whole sheet Ply [a mate made doors like that and claimed they would take 4 Tons of weight - I guess that is spread out - but very impressive on an 8' span!! ..   :O ].

 

I have shown a picture of how the foam can be cut and laid loose before fixing, to check the fit of the rails.

This one is small [4' x 8", for a windowsill ] but quite complex because of the rail curves.

Cutting the shape in the lower Ply sheet is easy, by simply turning the foam over on the ply and drawing around it on the Ply  …….  Jig-saw, job done  ….   :drag:

 

 

8230036210_06d073a987_c.jpg

 

By the way, it works very much as well with Balsa "Bread", so you might skin your boards with very thin Balsa, for strength in the middle [and something more substantial to attach rails etc to]. You could include spaces under board for electrics, as well, by doing that  …….

 

Planning is good news too, as the foam shapes can be included in the plan, as well as the rails.

Pink is the Foam -

 

 

8230052074_2b9be26bc1_c.jpg
Shunt Plan by JulianR 2013, on Flickr

 

 


Ah..!..Trying to fly in, under the radar, you

 

 

Not much chance with Ferries Radar on watch  …….    :nono:

Any Fossils on the dover shoreline   ………      :angel:

Have you still got sandwiches dt, or have they gone BR   ………    :O

 

 

J

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Well, your confidence, has risen greatly, since,  I taught you.........How to fly fast jets.....................

 

over the telephone...R/T........you do not think I was going to sit in the rear seat,with...you..............up there.............. :sungum: ............... :nono: ..........me, feet on the ground..........

 

oxygen mask, G-Forces.........trying to have a fag,.......nah !

 

Platforms ? their good............thanks.

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..you do not think I was going to sit in the rear seat,with...you.....

 

I'm sure I wouldn't want to fly with anyone stupid enough to want to take to the air with me at the controls  ……….     :no:  :no:  :nono:

 

Pleased the platforms good  ……    boards might last, after all

 

 

Must go, am being nagged to do holiday things  ….   and Mini D has already got First Class Honours in the WNC  ……….       :O

 

J

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Hi looking good.

I'm using the same material for my latest effoerts and its quite strong once braced etc etc.

As you say easy enough to scribe ridges / holes for whatever reason. Ive done a small stream lined in DASclay.

 

All the best.

Jack

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I know you don't need to but how would you join two or more boards together using that form of construction?

 

Best, Pete.

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Hi Pete,

 

I referred to an earlier project which was going to take longer than I wanted it too - to be revisited later  …….    :locomotive:

 

It is on 6' 8" x  2' 6" boards and they are joined in two ways, although I think that is Belt and Braces…..

 

 

8059864169_b85578b2ca_c.jpg
DSCN2287 by JulianR 2013, on Flickr

 

The tongues are diagonal cuts across a length of Ply - so they match exactly when glued and screwed to each board   ……    :friends:

 

 

8059840101_3ff7fb8887_c.jpg
DSCN2286 by JulianR 2013, on Flickr

 

 

One board first - with the back edges lined up on a steel rule - then the other board pressing each tongue into its matching gap on the other board  ……..   

 

 

The second part is to use the Mould-maker's Dowels on 40mm edging strips set into the foam and Ply  ...

 

 

8059857931_3010c72de2_c.jpg
DSCN2297 by JulianR 2013, on Flickr

 

It is quite possible to do a short edging insert, can even be Balsa, as the Dowels take the wear   ……   and easier    ………..     :imsohappy:

 

You have probably worked out that you can join more permanently by overlapping the ply and foam edges, by several inches    …….   Scarfe joint  ….…..   very strong, if you don't want a portable layout, like the one in the photos   ………    

 

You have probably also worked out that there is an even greater advantage when making curved shaped boards  ……   no straight bracing beams  …...

What fun   …………..   all that's needed is a Jig-saw      ………    :secret:

 

Legs???  …………..   Just tack to trestles with dabs of Cyano-acrilate   …………   

 

 

J

Edited by jcredfer
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Not seen any other none - traditional ideas from you folks out there yet   ……………….     :dancing:

 

Did I forget to mention, that Sandwiches are what keeps a lot of aeroplanes up in the sky     ……….    not at all new then   ………    how boring   ……     :senile:

 

 

J

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Spot on Mickey.

 

Im not that sure that  plywood sandwiching foamboard is all the revolutionary...I got some baseboard kicking about that uses MDF and ply 

 

although MDF replace by Extruded foam is very much lighter and very much as strong, which, I guess is the real point. There are many folks out there who have mobile layouts, for lots of very valid reasons - space at home - exhibitions - etc and a very light board, which is very rigid too could save a few Hernias    …….    :locomotive:

 

 

J

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Thanks for the alternative to Ply sandwich idea Mickey   …..    :scratchhead:

 

Kappa is indeed the Foam type I referred to, rather than the softer Expanded Polystyrene and is much better all round  ….    

Kappa is indeed light and is rather rigid, as foam goes, which is good in itself.  Two Ply/Balsa skin layers makes it almost as light …  but strong enough to stand on   …. which is quite sought after in many Blogg topics  ……..    it has little movement factor too  …….  which matches the heavier designs used up until recently

 

 

J

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I would need to take out a mortgage to afford Kappa board over here. That is why extruded polystyrene sheet was the answer. A better result would have been to skin both sides of the extruded polystyrene with something rigid like 3mm ply instead of building a wooden frame underneath. I have two boards built but no track glued down yet so I might just redesign them to a sandwich which would make their placement on the trestle boards much easier as well. I like experimenting with ideas like this and then lifting a fairly large baseboard with just one finger (really for the reaction from the older modellers in the room). I might also try the standing on it test - good for casual conversation around the table later!

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So what exactly is it that you are doing that is new?

 

i don't think I said anything was "New"

 

J

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I'm aiming at light at strong as you are but in a layout that is capable of hitting the exhibition circuit. Luckily, over here, the standards aren't as high as the UK, so my bodgit style of modelling will get by!!!!!

 

I build my modules at a standard 1200x600mm dimension as that fits with the building industry for timber, plywood, extruded stuff, etc. Plus I have a friendly local plywood supplier who cuts sheets to accurate dimensions on request (and no extra charge on the invoice either). 

 

As my boards rest on a separate support structure, they don't have to be uber strong - only strong enough to withstand handling and storage under the house. In other words, I like what you are doing and will be copying it!

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Hi Artizen,

Thank you for reading and I will look for your layout, should you be so kind as to post it. 

 

Lucky man to have a good builder's supplier like that too  ……    :sungum:

 

J

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When I started the Thread, I wanted to give an opportunity for modern techniques to be brought out for others to evaluate and use     ………..

 

Foam, for instance, is very useful but is pretty dependant on the type of foam   ……..    :scratchhead:

 

How about an old item revisited  ….  card glued in layers   …….   curves like this are very strong   ……..

 

Board joiners from Aluminium tube with Carbon Fibre rods through them   ……...

 

Light-weight surfaces from Balsa, which is made immensely strong by glueing Carbon Fibre Tow zig/zag across one side   ……..

 

Making strong edges to Balsa by running Cyano  Acrilate down the edges   ……..  [care needed if hardening a surface - this process gets rather hot]

 

 

There must be hundreds of new ideas and new ways to use familiar materials  ……...

I for one would be grateful to hear about them   ……...

 

J

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Hi looking good.

I'm using the same material for my latest effoerts and its quite strong once braced etc etc.

As you say easy enough to scribe ridges / holes for whatever reason. Ive done a small stream lined in DASclay.

 

All the best.

Jack

Hi Jack00,

Do you have any pictures, it sounds interesting  ….     :locomotive:

 

[PS - sorry not to get back earlier, but am chasing round entertaining daughter on holiday.]

J

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Hi jcredfer,

 

...
There must be hundreds of new ideas and new ways to use familiar materials  ……...

I for one would be grateful to hear about them   ……...

 

J

 

I got two sheets of corrugated card and glued them together. The salient point is that – like plywood – the “grain” (the runnings) in the two sheets is oriented at right angles to each other

This composition is surprisingly rigid and incredibly light, very easy to work with, too – knife, scissors… Only drawback encountered so far: it’s a bit pressure sensitive.

Armin

 

 

 

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Thank you Armin,

The thickness of the Corrugated Card would make a very stiff board.

   ………   so easy o shape too   ……..

I su[[ose some local reinforcement on pressure sensitive areas would be of assistance  ..   do you have any recommendations for that?

 

J

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...  some local reinforcement on pressure sensitive areas would be of assistance  ..   do you have any recommendations for that?

 

J

J, to be honest, I don't.

It appears to me, however, that this is the same difficulty arising in the use of Foamcore (ask Prof Klyzlr what to do…? ).

I personally don't see, why and where I should exert local pressure. I'm just a bit cautious with my layout(s).

Armin

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Hi Armin,

I have to agree with what you say here...

 

I personally don't see, why and where I should exert local pressure.

From what I see, the main reason for the old bracing under the layout was to prevent warping.  I certainly hope it is not to carry the weight of the trains, as that would be massive over-engineering  ...   :nono:

 

As for other items on the layout, I see little that would [individually] need all that under bracing either. I have seen the odd operational crane / hoist / bridge which might call for a little spread to the load on the base, as with full-size items. The load spreading could easily be done with Balsa or very thin Ply. Other than that the tracks, trains and bits of scenic decoration would be perfectly happy on Corrugated card ply / foam.

 

 

J

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