Jump to content

MikeTrice

Reproducing Varnished Teak - Improving Latest Hornby Thompsons

Recommended Posts

This is an excellent thread with some gorgeous modelling!

Thanks for posting.Could you do mahogany using the same technique?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you think?

 

I think you're on to something but the colour variation between panels needs to be a bit more subtle.  So perhaps mix the tints with the base colour in the odd panels.

Edited by asmay2002

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with above post far too much contrast between panels, a couple look almost a green shade !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Could you do mahogany using the same technique?

Should be able to. Just need the right combination of colours.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree with above post far too much contrast between panels, a couple look almost a green shade !!

I think it is the Yellow Ochre that looks odd. I must admit that the variations showed up more than I expected so another option is to thin the overlay colours. I think in future I will drop the Yellow Ochre but keep the remaining colours.

Edited by MikeTrice

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Errant panels overpainted and weathered with Model Mate's dyes:

post-3717-0-84047000-1378639745_thumb.jpg

 

T'other end weathered using the new Humbrol Black Wash:

post-3717-0-45499100-1378639807_thumb.jpg

  • Like 5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you think of the new humbrol black wash, I was going to buy some but I didn't know what they are like, Any good?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What do you think of the new humbrol black wash, I was going to buy some but I didn't know what they are like, Any good?

I havn't used it extensively. Of the two methods I currently prefer using the Model Mates dyes.

 

With the Humbrol product I used a brush to run the wash along the beading. In theory I should be able to use a similar technique to the Model Mates e.g. paint over the panels and use a cotton wool bud dipped in white spirit to 'clean' the panels. BTW it is worth watching the two videos on YouTube for using the Humbrol Washes.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, I have seen all the vids I just wanted to hear what it was like from a modeller who used the wash to weather a coach. Thanks

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, I have seen all the vids I just wanted to hear what it was like from a modeller who used the wash to weather a coach. Thanks

Thought I would give the Humbrol Black Wash another go. Interesting!  Painted a coat over the "teaked" side then removed surplus whilst the Wash was still wet with cotton wool buds. It gives a lovely heavily weathered finish for which the attached photo does not do justice. If I get a chance to re-photograph in daylight I will post another image.

 

post-3717-0-78918500-1378925284_thumb.jpg

  • Like 6

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does look really good, I like it, I will hopefully be getting a couple of coaches to repaint, following your excellent guide soon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It does look really good, I like it, I will hopefully be getting a couple of coaches to repaint, following your excellent guide soon.

I would be interested in hearing how you get on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

As promised some photos taken under natural light showing the heavy weathering achieved with Humbrol Black Wash, and removed before dry with a cotton bud:

 

post-3717-0-96744300-1379004634_thumb.jpg

 

Using a similar technique to the Model Mates dyes, this has had Humbrol Black Wash applied and allowed to dry (not fully) then a cotton wool bud dipped in white spirit used to clean the panels

:

post-3717-0-88446400-1379004719_thumb.jpg

  • Like 7

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

One of my objectives at the start of this post was to reproduce a varnished teak finish with currently available products. I am a fan of Vallejo paints however they are not commonly available so what do you do if you cannot obtain them? The Windsor and Newton oil paints on the other hand should (hopefully) be  universally available.

 

So this final post presents a summary of the method (ignoring the mistakes made along the way) and covers materials in a bit more depth.

 

1 ) Spray coach body with white primer. I use acrylic primer from Halfords but any make should do. Some of the subsequent colours can be a bit transparent so a white base will result in fewer coats to get good coverage.

2 ) Mask off the roof along the top of the cornice. I have found the Tamiya tape brilliant for this.

3 ) Paint on one or two coats of light orange base coat. I have used acrylic as it dries quickly and in the case of Vallejo paints does not hide the detail. If a single coat is insufficient leave the first to dry and apply a second.

4 ) Pick out random panels in the two alternative shades to provide some variation in tone. Leave to dry for at least two hours.

5 ) Apply sealing coat of Humbrol Clear or Johnson's Klear to protect the base coats and again leave a couple of hours.

6 ) Apply graining coat using the Burnt Umber oil paint mixed with a small amount of Liquin. The Liquin thins the paint slightly increasing transparency and speeds up drying time. Brush out in direction of grain. If you do not like the effect keep at it or if all else fails use turpentine to remove (it should not affect the acrylic base coats). Leave to dry for at least 12 hours. The surface will change and take on a matt sheen.

7 ) Apply another sealing cote of Clear/Klear or if unavailable it should be possible to use a gloss varnish.

8 ) Apply transfers and line in primrose paint.

9 ) Apply another coat of Clear/Klear or Satincote.

10 ) For a slightly weathered finish use Model Mates sooty black weathering dye, Humbrol Black Wash or mix your own from black paint and thinners. f mixing your own make sure the coach has had at least 24hrs to fully dry out before applying. Paint the coach in the wash/dye and let dry for about 1 hr. For Model Mates dyes wet a cotton wool bud in water and carefully clean the panels of dye leaving deposites along the beading. Use the same technique for washes but dip the cotton wool bud in thinners. Leave to one side to fully dry.

For a heavier weathered finish apply the Humbrol wash or home brew and whilst still wet remove the surplus with a dry cotton wool bud (or two or three).  This will result in a heavier layer than the light weathering. When cleaning panels use the cotton wool buds in the direction of the grain.

For Model Mates dyes they will need a final coat of varnish to waterproof. Humbrol Satincoat is ideal.

11 ) Remove masking and admire.

 

The following image can be used as a reference for base colours used. I am aware there are reproduction issues in scanning and uploading but I hope they will give a good indication should you not be able to source the Vallejo paints.

 

post-3717-0-46054100-1379187486_thumb.jpg

 

From left to right the colours are:

Vallejo Light Orange (022) as the main base coat.

Vallejo Sunny Skin Tone (020) as a panel variant.

Vallejo Orange Brown (131) as a second panel variant.

 

Happy teaking ;-)

 

 

  • Like 4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A very interesting thread Mike, thanks for sharing your technique with us :)

 

I've had a search of the site but didn't find anything on the subject. I was wondering if varnished teaks ran under BR at all and if so up till what year?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I've had a search of the site but didn't find anything on the subject. I was wondering if varnished teaks ran under BR at all and if so up till what year?

There are certainly photos of former LNER coaches still in teak livery at the end of 1951. Hopefully other posters can add to this.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Out of my period, but superb looking coaches Mike.

Re the different shades of teak on preserved coaches.

I have noticed at various preserved railways, for replacement panels they use veneered plywood sheets. Even on the ones that use teak veneer, if any do, (I've seen birch and elm used), the depth of finish on the panel wouldn't be the same as the original panelling, which I assume was solid teak? Any "teak" staining on a non teak veneer would show up different too.

 

Mike.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What more could he possibly add about varnished teak? As you quite correctly point out prototype coaches show distinct variations in shades between panels:

 

attachicon.gif100_2078.JPG

 

attachicon.gif100_2098.JPG

 

attachicon.gif100_3740.JPG

 

As stated previously I have ignored this in the past however it is evident that even on brand new ex-works coaches panel variations were evident. As a result I felt I had to attempt reproducing this and present my efforts below. Whether or not I was successful I will leave for others to comment.

 

Having applied the base coat of light orange various panels were picked out in other Vallejo shades:

attachicon.gifIMG_3931.JPG

 

For identification of the colours used:

attachicon.gifIMG_3933.JPG

 

It all looks very odd. One coat of Clear and a graining coat of Burnt Umber later and it looks like this:

attachicon.gifIMG_3942.JPG

 

attachicon.gifIMG_3941.JPG

 

What do you think?

 

As you asked....

 

That's very close to superb. I think that maybe the colour difference between panels is just a little too great and needs toning down a bit. I suspect your weathering technique might well do the trick.

 

Chaz

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Re the different shades of teak on preserved coaches.

I have noticed at various preserved railways, for replacement panels they use veneered plywood sheets. Even on the ones that use teak veneer, if any do, (I've seen birch and elm used), the depth of finish on the panel wouldn't be the same as the original panelling, which I assume was solid teak? Any "teak" staining on a non teak veneer would show up different too.

 

Mike.

As stated previously the color variations are also apparent on works photographs which would have featured all teak (no veneer).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have been in two minds over whether to post the next section or not, however you can learn as much by mistakes as you can your successes so I thought, why not?

 

I was curious in how suitable the technique presented to date could be applied to Thompson coaches. I managed to pick up an old Triang Thompson for a reasonable price specifically to try out the technique. Yes I know they are not accurate, but are sufficient for my purposes.

 

So here goes:

 

As before sides are sprayed in white primer and given a coat of light orange base colour. The lower sides comprise two painted panels the upper one being (in 4mm, 5mm wide). Some 6mm Tamiya masking tape applied to align with the lower edge of the windows:

 

post-3717-0-03054100-1379970573_thumb.jpg

 

Using a straight edge and a new scalpel blade the width of the masking tape was reduced by removing 1mm from the lower edge. In order to get the tape to lay flat it was also necessary to slit down beside the moulded handles:

 

post-3717-0-94290300-1379970737_thumb.jpg

 

Finally a strip was removed from the end and a panel line scored for the depth of the side, repeating the other end:

 

post-3717-0-46573700-1379970795_thumb.jpg

 

Burnt Umber oil/Liquin is used to grain the upper and lower panels. Unfortunately the graining of the upper panels could have been more prominent:

 

post-3717-0-44776100-1379970873_thumb.jpg

 

For variety I gave some of the lower panels a hint of arrow head graining.

 

post-3717-0-35822300-1379970912_thumb.jpg

 

Masking tape removed. Oops, some of the base coat and undercoat has lifted off, probalby due to lack of cleaning of the second hand sides:

 

post-3717-0-63430900-1379971028_thumb.jpg

 

After touching up the lifted base coat the whole side was treated to a coat of Humbrol Clear. The top panels and lower panels were then masked and the waist panel grained and masking tape removed:

 

post-3717-0-45276800-1379971109_thumb.jpg

 

Again I attempted some grain variety on the waist panel:

 

post-3717-0-99934100-1379971183_thumb.jpg

 

So not a great success. Where I cut the masking tape originally applied it has resulted in a horizontal groove between the panels which has filled with teak and look like a dark line as had the border with the masking tape. Also need to vary the basecoat colour as in the Gresley. If at first you don't succeed????

 

 

 

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rub down with very fine wet/dry should get rid of the ridges , couple of thin coats of varnish first will help to level first.

 

I have noticed the latest Hornby Thompsons are starting to come down in price, ones to practise on in the future !!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Rub down with very fine wet/dry should get rid of the ridges , couple of thin coats of varnish first will help to level first.

I am thinking of an alternative approach involving varying the base coat, rubbing down any ridges before the final graining coat. Just need the inspiration to give it a go.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

On one which you were preparing for a layout, you'd remove the handles and replace with (your very own) etched ones, I assume? That would make masking and sanding much easier.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

try a gentle application of TCut perhaps? cotton wool bud it along the "ridge" and then polish it back..  haven't tried it for this but I have used it on similar surface finishes,,,

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.