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MikeTrice

Reproducing Varnished Teak - Improving Latest Hornby Thompsons

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Mike, that is a huge improvement.

 

Alastair M.

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Thank you all for the endorsement and support.  It is very encouraging and, as a result, I am now looking with intent at the Kirk non-gangwayed full brake which was an impulse buy about 15 years or more ago.

 

Mike 

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Here is the Kirk Full Brake referred to above, almost but not quite finished. Sharp-eyed readers will spot that the roof is not yet fixed down. I want to check in a few days that the glazing, installed this afternoon, is secure before permanently sticking the roof in place. Buffers and couplings are also missing. I've learnt the hard way to install couplings, couple the vehicle up to other wagons or coaches, check clearances in my hidden storage sidings (Peco medium radius turnouts) and then decide whether the buffer shanks need shortening in their housings to minimise the risk of buffer locking and derailments in awkward places.

 

I'll need to fit some handrails as well.

 

The Mike Trice teak formula has worked again.  Because I mix my own "pumpkin orange", the shade of which heavily influences the final shade of "teak", the colour of the Kirk vehicle is slightly different from that of the Hornby van described above. I'm fine with that.  In fact, if I do another teak vehicle, I may paint some of the panels in subtly different shades of the orange - not too different as, in the smaller scales such as 4mm/foot,  I suspect we should be looking for an overall impression rather than sharp contrasts. For the same reason, and because I'm not confident in my artistic abilities, I've under- rather than over-stated wood-grain effects.

 

Thank you again for the positive feedback to date.  Most of the kudos should really go to Mike T.

 

Mike W

P1020471.jpg

P1020472.jpg

P1020473.jpg

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Good to see people having success with the method and being pleased with the result.

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On 02/08/2019 at 21:30, MikeCW said:

Here is the Kirk Full Brake referred to above, almost but not quite finished. Sharp-eyed readers will spot that the roof is not yet fixed down. I want to check in a few days that the glazing, installed this afternoon, is secure before permanently sticking the roof in place. Buffers and couplings are also missing. I've learnt the hard way to install couplings, couple the vehicle up to other wagons or coaches, check clearances in my hidden storage sidings (Peco medium radius turnouts) and then decide whether the buffer shanks need shortening in their housings to minimise the risk of buffer locking and derailments in awkward places.

 

I'll need to fit some handrails as well.

 

The Mike Trice teak formula has worked again.  Because I mix my own "pumpkin orange", the shade of which heavily influences the final shade of "teak", the colour of the Kirk vehicle is slightly different from that of the Hornby van described above. I'm fine with that.  In fact, if I do another teak vehicle, I may paint some of the panels in subtly different shades of the orange - not too different as, in the smaller scales such as 4mm/foot,  I suspect we should be looking for an overall impression rather than sharp contrasts. For the same reason, and because I'm not confident in my artistic abilities, I've under- rather than over-stated wood-grain effects.

 

Thank you again for the positive feedback to date.  Most of the kudos should really go to Mike T.

 

Mike W

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/P1020471.jpg.301c82ee50c357df3c9b8013c2271e55.jpg

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/P1020472.jpg.6dfbaba7b8a31079f4740af9b8022276.jpg

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_08/P1020473.jpg.fdc6dab4773e2c193e8e595bc61f46ec.jpg

Nice job that! Your Hornby BG looks just right and hats off to you for choosing such an expensive model for the guinea pig.

 

One other little improvement worth considering on Kirk models is to beef up the bottom door hinges, makes a world of difference. They were a prominent feature that stuck out about 3 inches!

hinge..jpg.bd2c5724b156cea852c1bc3b82dec1a8.jpg

 

Regards Shaun.

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Thank you for the tip Shaun. Those sort of touches, collectively, make a real difference.

 

It's interesting that the teak finish on the prototype coach in your photo looks rather closer to the oft-criticised "Ikea" effect of some of the Hornby offerings than my attempt at "improving" the finish on my Hornby full brake! Ah well. such is life!

 

Mike

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5 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Nice job that! Your Hornby BG looks just right and hats off to you for choosing such an expensive model for the guinea pig.

 

One other little improvement worth considering on Kirk models is to beef up the bottom door hinges, makes a world of difference. They were a prominent feature that stuck out about 3 inches!

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_09/hinge..jpg.bd2c5724b156cea852c1bc3b82dec1a8.jpg

 

Regards Shaun.

Once again, Mike comes to the rescue with his etched set of door hinges - installed easily with a small hole to secure. Certainly bits of plasticard will do it for a Kirk body, but Mike’s hinges come ready made. Have at it, chaps!

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On 01/09/2019 at 14:44, MikeCW said:

Thank you for the tip Shaun. Those sort of touches, collectively, make a real difference.

 

It's interesting that the teak finish on the prototype coach in your photo looks rather closer to the oft-criticised "Ikea" effect of some of the Hornby offerings than my attempt at "improving" the finish on my Hornby full brake! Ah well. such is life!

 

Mike

Hi Mike,

51769 belongs to the M&GN Joint Railway Society and was restored to its former glory in 1985. Restoration most probably would have involved stripping, sanding, bleaching, and refinishing. I suspect however that the cruel evening sunlight has much to do with the paleness in that last image. Sadly for the purpose of this thread 51769 now sports Carmine and cream or blood and custard as it became more commonly  known.  

 

Here's 51769 again then...

Most worthy of note is how very shinny it is. Looks great on the real thing but I doubt any of us would like it on our models! 

51769.png.ce26d59ef5c925ef7e2833c616605bdb.png

Image: J.W.Sutherland. slide collection.

 

Regards Shaun.

Edited by Sasquatch
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A lot of preservation groups used veneered plywood and that looks to be the case here.

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Hi Mike.

Teak would have been a very rare commodity  during the 1980s. Supplies of it were running out back in the mid 1940s. Weren't  some of the last Gresley BGs constructed in a similar manner? LNER carriages, Michael Harris Quotes hard-board??? 

 

I remember having a conversation many years ago at a show about the various finishes on a layouts stock, one of which was a Kirk BG sporting plain coach brown. The club member told me it was a plywood van built during the war which as a austere measure had plain coach brown slapped on! However I have not seen any photographs to confirm that and being a cabinet maker  have always suspected that construction involved a teak veneer.

 

 Incidentally it was at that show that I learnt the old Humbrol paint method of 143 coach brown, gloss tan wash and varnish with a touch of red. Back then the old Hornby stock looked great in that finish. Humbrol have since stopped making the coach brown and changed the hue of the tan, both of which ran out or dried up years ago leaving me with  much Kirk stock at various stages of construction. So I will be having a bash at your method having sourced all the ingredients you prescribe!

Thank you for sharing it on here.

 

Regards Shaun.

 

 

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16 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

Most worthy of note is how very shinny it is. Looks great on the real thing but I doubt any of us would like it on our models! 

 

I fully agree Shaun.  On the other hand, the modelling world seems to have developed a convention that flat finish is "proper"  for coaching stock.  Even in the peak depression years of the 1930s when shed and ancillary staff numbers were cut back by the railway companies, steel bodied coaches  - certainly on main line services - still had regular washes and reflected the sunlight in photos taken at the time. As I may have said at some stage in this thread, I'm an LMS modeller and finish my coaches in an approximate 50:50  gloss:satin varnish mix.  And when I put a Hornby LMS coach into service, before weathering the roof and underframe, and giving the body a very light dusting of road grime, I buff the body with extra-fine cutting compound to give it that slight sheen. To my eyes anyway, it looks more realistic.

 

I don't know much about LNE and GN teak coaches but, in doing some research before trying Mike Trice's teak method, I looked at the colour photos on this page of Steve Banks' well-known website.

 

https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-and-traffic/133-teak-coaches

 

Even allowing for variations in colour rendition in these early transparencies, what struck me was how dark many of the panels became in service as the varnish reacted with the sulphurous, acidic atmosphere of the time.  Also, of note is the variation in shade between panels - in some cases almost a checkerboard effect.  That would be almost impossible to reproduce convincingly in 4mm scale - certainly for me.  (That said, Sylvian Tennant has an an excellent, similar finish on two of his coaches in an earlier post.) The Gauge 1 boys might be able to do it more readily..

 

Finally, a recent model.  I'm putting together a rake of coaches for a Hornby Dublo 3-rail layout, using the Margate/Railroad short Gresleys as a basis.  The intention is that they be hauled by a repainted A4 in post-war condition.  Think more modern equivalent of the pre-war and immediate post-war Dublo tinplate teak coaches. The articulated sleeper is not a model of any prototype but to me looks the part.  Again, I've used Mike's method  to approximate a teak finish, this time with no weathering and a semigloss finish.

 

Mike

1187667564_P10204881.jpg.9071f73001b2c79db381945593902bc6.jpg1426254221_P10204861.jpg.0c57338eca334b1a2b837e9f9d96d2dc.jpgP1020487.jpg.92f257e84321eed8ee35855e58dfe27c.jpg

 

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I do like that Mike and have always wondered if a pair of old Hornby sleepers would make a convincing Twin Sleeper First. One day no doubt I'll have a go, not that I need them for my layout but purely because I love building LNER coaching stock! 

 

When I get around to some practice samples I have some rattle can semi gloss polyurethane I'm going to try before the weathering stage. I will post the outcome on here successful or otherwise. 

 

Once again Thanks for sharing, regards Shaun.

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6 hours ago, Sasquatch said:

.....have always wondered if a pair of old Hornby sleepers would make a convincing Twin Sleeper First.

 

I think they would Shaun.  I cut mine back to behind the dome ends of the roofs at the articulated ends of the coaches.  As a result, I lost a pair of sleeping compartments and the shorter-than-scale-length coaches  ended up even shorter.  I was OK with that as they were intended to run in a rake of repainted Margate/Railroad teaks in a "toy" rather than "scale" setting, and seemed to look fine in that context. .  The picture below, taken before primer and finish sanding might give you an idea of where I cut and shut.

P1020454.jpg.c1b2b5bd1ab49a3a0a2c838e185f9238.jpg

 

 Were I doing another pair to run in a more "scale" setting I would probably not shorten (or otherwise mutilate) the coach apart from cutting off and making flush the bow ends over the articulated bogie.  I would cut the roof back to behind the dome and either make a new section of continuous, parallel roof or, more probably, take a piece from a sacrificial coach.  I suspect the underframe trussing would need shifting. With South Eastern flush glazing they would be very passable, in my view at least; not for the LNE purist but perhaps for "the average modeller" of the old Railway Modeller magazine strap line.

 

Mike
 

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22 hours ago, mozzer models said:

heres one i am working on at the moment

That's a very tidy job Mozzer and the teak effect looks spot-on (to my unpracticed eye anyway).  I like the way that you've painted the lookout ducket the same colour as the solebars, I assume because on the original the ducket is pressed steel and, like the solebars, painted in a teak enamel rather than grained? A nice detail.

 

Mike

 

 

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On 03/09/2019 at 09:05, MikeTrice said:

A lot of preservation groups used veneered plywood and that looks to be the case here.

The timber seen in both pictures of 51769 is freijo, chosen for reasons of cost and availability.  Even so, it is evident that sourcing pieces large enough for the lower panelling was a problem.

 

It was quite eye-catching when new and freshly varnished, but latterly it looked more like pine than anything else.

 

D

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2 hours ago, Darryl Tooley said:

The timber seen in both pictures of 51769 is freijo

 

I haven't seen that timber for years, I remember we had some as a sample in the 80's but IIRC it didn't mellow very well.

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I suppose now we have to wonder if Hornby modeled their teak on preserved freijo???

Someone had to say it.

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I thought I'd share my n gauge 'teaking' efforts using a variation of Mike's technique. The following bodies have been painted with a base coat and then 'teaked' using Burnt Umber, Burnt Sienna and Yellow Orca oil paints. Simply blob tiny amounts of these paints onto each panel and meld together using a brush.

 

20191018_190508-1.jpg.5ce7fd72fc37c20e8c24558a3aff371c.jpg20191018_190824-1.jpg.9995a1be525b0eed0f475255b7bacfc1.jpg

 

The above coaches used Tamiya Desert Yellow as a base coat. I'll be experimenting with some tinted varnish to make the colours a little richer.

 

20191018_190606-1.jpg.a9e97c762d68d33545861cb252a5c12a.jpg

 

This one was painted over a Humbrol Natural Wood basecoat. I think it provides an interesting contrast to the two coach bodies above it.

 

20191019_105725.jpg.d5552347a97c586b10e75af11adb1c31.jpg

 

This old Minitrix coach was painted straight over the light tan plastic. I think this one is the one I'm happiest with but I'll have to mask the windows before varnishing (try as I might, I cannot convince them to come out!).

 

 

 

 

 

 

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6 hours ago, Atso said:

I thought I'd share my n gauge 'teaking' efforts using a variation of Mike's technique. The following bodies have been painted with a base coat and then 'teaked' using Burnt Umber, Burnt Sienna and Yellow Orca oil paints. Simply blob tiny amounts of these paints onto each panel and meld together using a brush.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/20191018_190508-1.jpg.5ce7fd72fc37c20e8c24558a3aff371c.jpghttps://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/20191018_190824-1.jpg.9995a1be525b0eed0f475255b7bacfc1.jpg

 

The above coaches used Tamiya Desert Yellow as a base coat. I'll be experimenting with some tinted varnish to make the colours a little richer.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/20191018_190606-1.jpg.a9e97c762d68d33545861cb252a5c12a.jpg

 

This one was painted over a Humbrol Natural Wood basecoat. I think it provides an interesting contrast to the two coach bodies above it.

 

https://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/uploads/monthly_2019_10/20191019_105725.jpg.d5552347a97c586b10e75af11adb1c31.jpg

 

This old Minitrix coach was painted straight over the light tan plastic. I think this one is the one I'm happiest with but I'll have to mask the windows before varnishing (try as I might, I cannot convince them to come out!).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hello Steve

 

I like the finish that you have achieved....I tend to agree with you that I like the last one the most. To me the the colour you’ve achieved on that coach is darker, hint of red perhaps (colour is so subjective) and a bit more panel variation visible.

 

I’ve found that the final varnish coat makes a big difference - so perhaps reserve judgement till that is applied. Then decide which one you prefer.

 

Jon

 

 

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9 hours ago, gr.king said:

Yellow Orca? Auto correct gone mad?

Depends where they get the oil from.

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9 hours ago, gr.king said:

Yellow Orca? Auto correct gone mad?

 

Sadly, as much as I'd like to blame that on auto-correct, it is more of a case of fingers typing on keyboard without brain being engaged! The correct colour is yellow ochre, however I quite like the idea of a yellow marine mammal; think of it as an environmentally friendly version of a certain submarine that is referenced in a well known song. However, I wouldn't have thought living in a yellow orca would be particularly pleasant or long.

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Ok, I've varnished the Dapol brake composite. I used a mix consisting of one third Tamiya clear red and two thirds gloss clear. This gave the coach a lovely deep red tint which was probably a little too much for an N Gauge coach. I then gave the coach a very light coat of thinned clear yellow which gave me a colour I was happy with - and changes depending on the lighting conditions.

 

Before:

 

20191018_190508-1.jpg.ba2fc79b856b910f87b625748239bb25.jpg

 

After:

 

20191021_184955-1.jpg.42c331dd6dc468e85db0e342e0b64d09.jpg

 

Now that the first side is under a protective coat, I've 'teaked' the other side.

 

20191021_163151-1.jpg.9fee16f8e70779bb5804ea9065df83a6.jpg 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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