Non-coal traffic on colliery railways

[Nick_Burman]

Hello all,

 

Did any UK colliery railway (either private or post-Nationalization) handle any traffic other than coal (excluding inbound supplies)? I'm asking because in France the huge HNBPC (Houilleres du Nord et du Bassin du Pas-de-Calais) internal system had (and still has, operated today by VFIL, although little or no coal uses the remains of the system) several non-coal customers despite the railway not being a public carrier (although HNBPC did own two sections which were public lines). I understand that operation was by agreement. Did any British line have the same characteristic?

 

 

Cheers NB

[Steve O.]

Hi Nick,

The NCB at Ashington and the 'Marsden Rattler' at South Shields were passenger trains put on for the miners. The Rattler (I think) also tailored to the paying public.

Cheers,

Steve.

[Gordon A]

Some UK collierys had brickworks associated with them.

 

Gordon A

Bristol

[br2975]

Apart from the 'Paddy' trains - the Blaenserchan / Talywain network employed converted  wagons to carry (I) fodder for the pit ponies, (ii) stone dust to spread below ground in order to reduce the risk of explosion (iii) an ambulance van, fitted out to carry stretchers on frames !!!

.

However, the carriage of anything other than coal, coal products and empty wagons was uncommon.

.

Brian R

[Barry O]

We used to see pit prop trains when I was very young - imported through Hartlepool docks. These would be in open wagons. Coke from the coke ovens/store at Horden went out by rail, and I seem to remember (its 40+ years ago!) that the odd gunpowder wagon came in on occasion.

 

More info on the Marsden Rattler can be found in

The South Shields, Marsden and Whitburn Colliery Railway by William J Hatcher, The Oakwood Press

ISBN 0 85361 583 7

[Adam]

(iii) an ambulance van, fitted out to carry stretchers on frames !!!

 

Brian R

 

Ther's a drawing of the Ambulance van in one of the Welsh Railways Research Circle publications. I have a copy of this somewhere and will - one day - get around to building it. The Pontarddulais system had a a successions of 'passenger' vehicles - including an ex-GWR non-corridor coach - but, so far as I know, these were purely for miner's use only. the closest most collieries got to 'domestic' traffic was landsale (i.e., direct from pit sales) coal.

Adam

[br2975]

Ther's a drawing of the Ambulance van in one of the Welsh Railways Research Circle publications. I have a copy of this somewhere and will - one day - get around to building it. The Pontarddulais system had a a successions of 'passenger' vehicles - including an ex-GWR non-corridor coach - but, so far as I know, these were purely for miner's use only. the closest most collieries got to 'domestic' traffic was landsale (i.e., direct from pit sales) coal.

Adam

 

I've got the WRRC magazine with this article too - there are photos as well in an old issue of BRJ (I think Desmond Coakham was the author of the article).

.

Both the Talywain and Pontardulais - Graig Merthyr systems later used ex-GWR, ex-LMS vans and the latter system had at least one ex-SR van (banana ?).

.

Paddy Trains were not very common in South Wales, and the Talywain and Graig Merthyr services survived so long because both were in essence so remote and with little or no road access.

.

Brian R

[Nick_Burman]

Thanks all for the help. I think that the only example which fits in what I'm looking for is the brickworks...everything else (fodder, stone powder, pit props, explosives) would be classed as inbound supplies. I thought about the "Paddy Trains" but forgot about the Marsden public passenger service. Other than the brickworks, any other possibilities?

 

http://www.lambtonlocomotivestrust.co.uk/edwardianrailway/runninganedwardianrailway.htm says that the Lambton Railway shunted some private sidings - I wonder who were the customers...

 

 

Cheers NB

 

[Sludger]

Thanks all for the help. I think that the only example which fits in what I'm looking for is the brickworks...everything else (fodder, stone powder, pit props, explosives) would be classed as inbound supplies. I thought about the "Paddy Trains" but forgot about the Marsden public passenger service. Other than the brickworks, any other possibilities?

 

http://www.lambtonlocomotivestrust.co.uk/edwardianrailway/runninganedwardianrailway.htm says that the Lambton Railway shunted some private sidings - I wonder who were the customers...

 

 

Cheers NB

Hi Nick,

 

the Ashington Coal Co used to transport paying passengers on it's services. This was continued by the NCB

but was withdrawn fairly soon after formation.

 

There was also a fair amount of manure from the pit ponies which was sold off to farmers around the collieries.

There were sidings provided for unloading this traffic.

 

Trev.

[RThompson]

There was also the Littleton colliery line in Staffordshire whom shunted the Rowntrees warehouse and took the wagons from the warehouse to the mainline.

 

Link to another thread.

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61850-boscomoor-sidings-and-the-littleton-colliery-branch-staffordshire/

[Poggy1165]

Some collieries had coke ovens. While a coke oven would be an interesting and challenging model, I think you'd need more than a tad of space, even if 2mm scale, let alone anything bigger. IIRC - I can't honestly say I've researched the industry in any detail - there were by-products from the coking process, as well as coke itself. I'm pretty sure some of these would involve tank wagons.

 

Another possibility (although equally space hungry) might be an iron works. Up until 1930-ish many of the collieries and iron works in the Wigan area were in common ownership (I am thinking of Wigan Coal and Iron Co) and I think quite often in close proximity to one another.

[flyingsignalman]

Didn't the Middleton Railway serve a couple of other industries?

[avonside1563]

Some collieries also had brickworks associated with them.

[philwaglab]

Other wagon loads received at collieries in South Wales were ;

 

Colliery Arches,Pitwood,Rails,Ropeway buckets and wagon material.The wagon material was usually for Powell Duffryn Wagon Co for onsite wagon repairs

[sir douglas]

the middleton did serve a few adjoining industries such as the hunslet gasworks, their last service was for the works in Dartmouth yard, but someone else like AMJ or jamie92208 will know more about these. the nearby East & West Yorkshire Union Railway (E&WYUR) colliery system also served quarries, brickworks, copperworks, and it had a passenger service

 

http://www.lostrailwayswestyorkshire.co.uk/E&WYUR.htm

 

rothwell station

http://www.flickr.com/photos/thanoz/3455387170/

[TheQ]

Not a colliery railway, But the NBR / LNER Line to Bo'ness (Borrowstounness) came from the Dock and Public station through the middle of  the Kinneil Pit. The line was built for Freight  especially from the Iron works and the dock, passengers came later. Visually if modelled this would give the same effect of passenger and non coal freight running surrounded by the pit.

[Alex TM]

Hi Nick,

 

As with the previous post there were/are number of locations where a 'mainline' ran through the middle of the pithead.  The former Cardowan colliery sat to one side of the line from Cumbernauld to Glasgow, with the merchants sidings of the opposite side.  For  modelling purposes there is the advantage that there is a convenient scenic break at each end.

 

During the 70s and early 80s the traffic would have been the local Cumbernauld to Springburn shuttle service (usually a 101) however the freight would have been varied.

 

Hope this is of some use or help.

 

Regards,

 

Alex.

[rue_d_etropal]

We had here in Accrington/Huncoat what was a system that served both the colliery and local brickworks. There was also a connection to the local power station. I have located a few photos, but none showing trains running on the country sections, so don't know whether both brick and coal trains used common tracks. At one point the line bends round the local cricket club, which shows which was thought to be more important! Much of the route can still be traced on Google map.

There were also a couple of what are marked as 'tramway' on the map, which I think were probably narrow gauge. One was replaced by an arial ropeway, which was a well known local landmark for many years.

 

Industrial railways are sadly neglected in our hobby.

 

Simon

[philwaglab]

The yard opposite Cardowan Colliery was Stepps Coal yard.This wasused by Hargreaves also other merchants used it.The only other traffic at this yard during the 70's was lime in 16 ton wagons

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Apart from clay used to make bricks, there might well be high quality stoneware clay used in the production of salt-glazed sewer pipes.

[TheQ]

I forgot to mention for the Bo'ness line, there was a fire clay /brick  works along side the coalmine and a fire clay mine (closed 1980) further up the line.

[MarcD]

This was quite common in Scotland as well. Also on the Backworth system in Northumberland there was a lead shot manufacturing works which used on of the abandoned shafts. Fire clay commonly out crops within the lower carboniferous coal measures. I'm not a soft rock mining expert but I do know that on occasions with hard rock mining you can get green sand and fullers earth deposits out cropping in fairly random places. 

 

I could be wrong but Lime might be something that would be manufactured depending on the geology. 

 

Marc