Tenement buildings

[Legend]

For me I think fronts would be more useful, but I can see that others would need backs!   Sorry I'm not an architect but to me the typical Scottish Tenement has windows that stick out, not expressing myself well , but two small side windows at 45 degree and a large main window for the front room. There are lovely ones around Queens Park and Mount Florida on the Cathcart CircleI would have thought red sandstone for Glasgow Paisley and Stone for Edinburgh would do the trick.  

[Colin_McLeod]

Hi

 

Have you considered doing tenements in brick. Perhaps the dirtied brick from years of smoke and grime.  I have planned to scratchbuild a row of tenements backing on to the railway but if the right kit was available it would save a lot of work.

Thanks

[Mark 37]

If your looking for inspiration, then look at the original tenements in Dalmuir A814 (Dumbarton Rd) beside the allotments (Agamemnon St).

 

My aunt stayed there many years ago. I remember jumping from wall to wall around the back at the bin bays, then we (my cousins and I) would head around to the disused railway line that lead down to the river Clyde where we would find abandoned wagons that we would play in. Happy days.

 

Mark

[davknigh]

Google Earth Street View could be of use here. Drop in to your favourite neighbourhood and have a look and take a screen shot or two. Unfortunately not much use for getting the backs of buildings right and that was generally (not always) the part that faced the tracks. Any help that John can offer would be gratefully accepted.

 

Cheers,

 

David

[Kenton]

 

There are lovely ones around Queens Park and Mount Florida on the Cathcart CircleI would have thought red sandstone for Glasgow Paisley and Stone for Edinburgh would do the trick.

Many of the Glasgow tenements were a striking yellow once they had been cleaned up and many in the east-end more a greyish/pale yellow. In the west end they did tend more towards red sandstone but in reality most of them only showed their real colours once sand-blasted en-mass during the late 70s - 80s. Probably they are best represented for the general railway eras as a sooty, dirty black with yellow/pinkish red marks. Don't forget the tiled entrance ways. Some tenements I have had flats in (Queens Park, Partick Hill, Great Western Rd) were decidedly up-market whereas others (Maryhill, Girvan) were qualified slums - they were all different styles.

 

It will be difficult to produce a generic structure to cover them all, and that's just Glasgow. Edinburgh and Aberdeen present more challenges and not just the colour.

[shortliner]

Some Glaswegian tenement buildings here - over 18's only

http://www.chunkgroup.com/snowball/

[gelboy45]

What prompted me to start this post and draw attention to the lack of a 'typical' Scottish tenement in model form was a visit this summer to the Glasgow tenement apartment owned by The National Trust of Scotland. The apartment and building illustrates life in a tenement building and highlights the fact that tenement living was not, as often assumed elsewhere, necessarily poor. 

 

I would suggest that the front of a tenement with its bay windows is what is most often seen as iconic and would be possibly a nice introduction to a range of model Scottish buildings. Corrugated iron buildings would be useful too! 

 

Gerry

[Kenton]

 

I would suggest that the front of a tenement with its bay windows is what is most often seen as iconic and would be possibly a nice introduction to a range of model Scottish buildings.

Sadly far from the truth in terms of iconic. Only one of the ones I lived in at the start of the 70's had bay windows to the front (a corner building at the top of Partick Hill. The rest had very plain and rather small windows with dark interiors. Many of these building were demolished during the 60's and replaced with despicably shoddy high rises, many of which have also been demolished.

 

There was a topic on RMWeb specifically showing some of this lost architecture (including links to other sites). The problem from the modeller's point of view is that what is left southside and west end are the more prosperous tenements, those along side most of the main railways and yards are long gone.

[Pete 75C]

To back up what's already been said, after I left the railway, I spent 18 months in Glasgow, on the Great Western Rd, not far from Kelvinbridge Underground. I had a large double-fronted top floor room in the block below. My flat-mates would tell anyone prepared to listen how we lived in a "restored tenement block". Absolute rubbish, I'm afraid. As far as buildings go, this was pretty high-end and I often wondered about the history of this particular terrace. It still had tell-tale signs of Victorian and Edwardian servant life such as mechanical bell pulls and dumb waiters. Someone should have told them that being 3 floors high and made of stone didn't make it a tenement block...

 

[airighdrishaig]

Just another suggestion, for Scalescenes - Novar Drive, Hyndland, Glasgow. Red sandstone, maybe upper side of mid market, built on a curve suitable for fitting on model curves even though original line to Hyndland depot round their backs now gone. Curve trickier to design I guess though.

[Londontram]

Some Glaswegian tenement buildings here - over 18's only

http://www.chunkgroup.com/snowball/

some what sad but strangely addictive.....I need to get out more 

[pH]

To back up what's already been said, after I left the railway, I spent 18 months in Glasgow, on the Great Western Rd, not far from Kelvinbridge Underground. I had a large double-fronted top floor room in the block below. My flat-mates would tell anyone prepared to listen how we lived in a "restored tenement block". Absolute rubbish, I'm afraid. As far as buildings go, this was pretty high-end and I often wondered about the history of this particular terrace. It still had tell-tale signs of Victorian and Edwardian servant life such as mechanical bell pulls and dumb waiters. Someone should have told them that being 3 floors high and made of stone didn't make it a tenement block...

 

kelvin.jpg

 

Buckingham Terrace? I lived in Ruskin Terrace (next one along) for a year - top floor, too.

[Pete 75C]

Yep - that's the one. The entrance was on Ruskin Place I think, just off the main road. Small world! Pete.

[luckymucklebackit]

Is this any use to anyone, I made a similar enquiry on "Urban Glasgow and was given this diagram.

 

Jim

[66C]

Is this any use to anyone, I made a similar enquiry on "Urban Glasgow and was given this diagram.

 

Jim

One of the nice things about this drawing is that the tenements are still there - perhaps minus a few chimney stacks!

 

Easy to find on Google or Windows Live Local - use the streetview facility for some very good pictures.

 

Regards.

[Bernard Lamb]

For those who do not go there, this link was posted on the 16t minerals thread.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sixtiesedinburgh/6971779323/

Edinburgh rather than Glasgow. But contains some interesting details

Regarding the colour for stone work. My mother's family lived in Flesh Market Close above Waverley Station. The stone work was a very sooty black.

Bernard

[Robuk1981]

Tenements in dundee at least can vary vastly from street to street take a drive on google maps you can get a good idea.

[Pete 75C]

Good idea - I sometimes forget what a useful reference tool that can be.

[Robuk1981]

The backs can vary just as much as the fronts. I've seen them in sand stone and sometimes yellow bricks.

[Violets49]

Interesting subject. There are still many tenements remaining in Scotland. As previous posts have said, different areas and different eras were all ... 'different' Glasgow tenements varied from area to area. Bay windows were usually only found on the better type. (West end, parts of Cathcart and the Sooth Side' Glasgow tenements were typically of four floors with no 'Attic' flats. Greenock tenements were three story with attics (Dormer windows.) West coast was usually Blonde Sandstone. Lanarkshire was a distinctive red sandstone. Aberdeen was famously Granite. Victorian tenements had an internal ceiling height of about ten feet. Tenements built after the great war had lower ceilings and were usually of Harled Brick. Those built in Greenock after the last war had red sandstone bases and pebble-dash above ground floor window level. any built after 1970 (Rare) were without chimney stacks, Georgian tenements are extremely rare these days but they had much lower internal ceilings than the later Victorian blocks and the distinctive Georgian four by three windows.

Technically, 'tenement' refers to any rented property an comes from the phrase 'in tenemens' meaning to hold in exchange for rent (As opposed to military service or other burden) So, those gorgeous blocks in places like Great Western Road in Glasgow, unless they are rented, are technically not tenements at all. The Finch and Fourachre kits mentioned earlier are to 1:200 scale and are very expensive. Some of us approached F&F to see if we could get some made to a recognised railway scale but the response was lukewarm.

[trisonic]

I believe I'm right in saying that Glasgow "Brownstone" is exactly the same geologically as New York "Brownstone". You may be able to get suitable sheets from the 'States.......sounds a bit "cockeyed", I know.

 

Best, Pete.

[pH]

Greenock tenements were three story with attics (Dormer windows.) Those built in Greenock after the last war had red sandstone bases and pebble-dash above ground floor window level.

 

Can I say that I think you're being a bit too definitive about tenements in Greenock? Yes, there are quite a few 3-storey ones with dormers, but most don't have the dormers. Look at the West End - Ardgowan Street, Robertson Street, Patrick Street, bottom of Campbell Street -  or the Murdieston Street/Dempster Street area - very few dormers. There are also some 4-storey ones around - just quickly, on the corner of Ardgowan Street and Patrick Street, and Sandringham Terrace (red sandstone, and wally closes, too!)  

 

As far as construction materials on post-war buildings, I agree that most are sandstone-based, finished in pebble-dash, but there's a lovely brick-built one on South Street between Kelly Street and Caddlehill Street, and the tenements in Pennyfern are built of some kind of block. 

 

I don't know if it's been said before on this topic, but I think it would be more useful for modellers if kits were produced for the back of tenements. IIRC, more railway lines face the backs of tenements than the fronts.

[Colin_McLeod]

 

I don't know if it's been said before on this topic, but I think it would be more useful for modellers if kits were produced for the back of tenements. IIRC, more railway lines face the backs of tenements than the fronts.

 

Hear Hear.  I am seeking material for designing a scratchbuilt terrace backing on to my main line on the approaches to the terminal station. 

[Violets49]

pH-Many (Nay ALL) surviving Greenock Victorian tenements have been extensively rebuilt and re roofed and mostly have had the Attic flats removed. Having once visited an attic flat in a now long gone tenement, I'm not in the least surprised. You are correct to say that many didn't have attic flats in the first place. My comment was a generalisation from my observations that Glasgow tenements seemed to be on average a floor higher than those elsewhere. Edinburgh especially around the Royal Mile had very high tenements eight or nine storeys in some cases.

Trisonic.- I have never encountered the name 'Glasgow Brownstone'(But I will enquire) Most tenements in Glasgow were blonde sandstone. a creamy yellow stone But as a previous post said until the seventies when the survivors were cleaned, they were black with soot. Some were of a red sandstone. certainly in Greenock only the better sort of tenements were of red sandstone. What we called 'Wally close' tenements because the closes were clad with glazed (Wally) tiles often very ornate.

[Bernard Lamb]

Never heard the word wally used in relation to glazed tiles.

It was always used in my family for any type of china or pottery so I suppose it stems from the same origins.

Bernard