What kits are there for M&GNR locos in 4mm scale

[mozzer models]

I have been asked What kits are there for M&GNR locos in 4mm scale

 

I know of the Londen road Midland 1808 class are there any others

 

thank Moz

[jwealleans]

Yes, Brian. Peter K kits are still available through Kemilway as far as I know. They list the Class A 4-4-0.

 

You can also adapt the Bachmann 3F to what became a J41. I imagine a similar adaptation is possible with a 2P 4-4-0. Nu-Cast used to do a Midland 0-6-0 which I have built as a J40, requiring very little alteration.

 

Someone used to do a 4-4-0T, but I'm not sure now who that was.

 

Anyone here in the M & GN Circle?

Edited September 2, 2013 by jwealleans

[Nick Holliday]

Jidenco / Falcon Brass were the ones who produced the 4-4-0T kit.  Currently listed as "not currently available".

[Adam]

Somewhat predictably, the 4-4-0 tank was by Falcon Brass I think; you'll have to ask the new owners but it may tell its own story when I say that all of the models I've seen of this - rather comely - prototype (two in 4mm, 1 in S and 1 in 7mm - that's more than you might expect) have been scratchbuilt. I've seen a class A as well - built by John James and he said it was a bit of a pig although a nice model can result. London Road Models also do an ex-GNR J3/J4 - http://www.lner.info/locos/J/j3j4.shtml - and the M&GN had a handful of these but they look rather strange with Midland pattern smokebox doors.

 

The J40/J41 was another pure Midland design (a 2F?) must be adaptable from one kit or another (I think Gibson did one and according the the LNER Encyclopedia says that Falcon Brass did; http://www.lner.info/locos/J/j40j41.shtml). I've always thought that it would be an attractive railway to model in the period prior to Nationalisation with locos which were almost, but not quite familiar in shape.

 

Adam

[mozzer models]

thank every one so far that helps

It give me 5 kits of which 3 are available

[stewartingram]

Yes, Brian. Peter K kits are still available through Kemilway as far as I know. They list the Class A 4-4-0.

 

You can also adapt the Bachmann 3F to what became a J41. I imagine a similar adaptation is possible with a 2P 4-4-0. Nu-Cast used to do a Midland 0-6-0 which I have built as a J40, requiring very little alteration.

 

Someone used to do a 4-4-0T, but I'm not sure now who that was.

 

Anyone here in the M & GN Circle?

I'm not in the M&GN Circle, but am in the GERS, which lists what models are available for the East Anglia area, though I haven't had time to wade through tthe list yet to see if anything M&GN is listed. I will try to look later.

 

Stewart

[mozzer models]

I'm not in the M&GN Circle, but am in the GERS, which lists what models are available for the East Anglia area, though I haven't had time to wade through tthe list yet to see if anything M&GN is listed. I will try to look later.

 

Stewart

if you could that would be a help

[PaulG]

Modelling the railways of East Anglia in 4mm Scale 6th issue rev 1 2013 21st Jan.pdf

if you could that would be a help

Attached is the document mentioned above - I haven't looked too closely into M&GN stock and comments always welcome

Paul

[DaveF]

The Jidenco/Falcon Class B can be built, below is a photo of one I built  30+ years ago.

 

One day I will sort out the "temporary" repair to the crosshead and piston rod!

 

The one in the background is a 7mm scale version from  (I think) Loveless parts, again built around 15 years ago.

 

Neither is perfect but they give me a lot of pleasure - and they both work well.

 

 

David

 

Edited for spelling again.

D

Edited September 3, 2013 by DaveF

[Jol Wilkinson]

Here's a couple of photos of MGNR locos based on London Road Model kits.

 

 

 

The 0-6-0 is from one of the GNR loco kits but I don't know exactly which one. I think it's probably the J4.

 

The 4-4-0 is from the MR Class 1808, but can only be built in the original M&GNR version but apparently not in the later rebuilt type.

[mozzer models]

Here's a couple of photos of MGNR locos based on London Road Model kits.

 

MGNR 060.jpg

 

MGNR 440.jpg

 

The 0-6-0 is from one of the GNR loco kits but I don't know exactly which one. I think it's probably the J4.

 

The 4-4-0 is from the MR Class 1808, but can only be built in the original M&GNR version but apparently not in the later rebuilt type.

Am i right in thinking these were built bya chap called malcolm ??

[Jol Wilkinson]

Am i right in thinking these were built bya chap called malcolm ??

I took them so long ago I can't remember. They might be the work of the late Malcolm Crawley but I am not sure.

[Adam]

On 03/09/2013 at 13:36, LNWRmodeller said:

Here's a couple of photos of MGNR locos based on London Road Model kits.

 

MGNR 060.jpg

 

MGNR 440.jpg

 

The 0-6-0 is from one of the GNR loco kits but I don't know exactly which one. I think it's probably the J4.

 

The 4-4-0 is from the MR Class 1808, but can only be built in the original M&GNR version but apparently not in the later rebuilt type.

 

Based on the pictures I've managed to find, the rebuilds seem to have been of differing degrees of thoroughness, mostly dependent on the type of boiler fitted:

 

http://www.lner.info/locos/D/d52d53d54.shtml

 

I don't suppose that the extended smokebox variant would be too much of a struggle but the reboilered, re-cabbed(?) versions might be as might the replacement tenders; are these small Deeley/Fowler types or just 'after the style of? I'm afraid I know very little of the Midland's practise - and still less of Melton Constable's - in these matters.

 

Adam

Edited September 1, 2019 by Adam

[Jol Wilkinson]

Based on the pictures I've managed to find, the rebuilds seem to have been of differing degrees of thoroughness, mostly dependent on the type of boiler fitted:

 

http://www.lner.info/locos/D/d52d53d54.shtml

 

I don't suppose that the extended smokebox variant would be too much of a struggle but the reboilered, re-cabbed(?) versions might be as might the replacement tenders; are these small Deeley/Fowler types or just 'after the style of? I'm afraid I know very little of the Midland's practise - and stiill less of Melton Constable's - in these matters.

Adam

 

From the link Adam provides you also get to http://www.lner.info/locos/J/j40j41.shtml

 

I haven't researched any further but that does look very much like the MR 3130 class that LRM do, although I think that the M&GNR version may have had larger wheels.

[jwealleans]

Probably NuCast, but this is a J40:

 

Edited October 17, 2018 by jwealleans

[Jol Wilkinson]

Probably NuCast, but this is a J40:

 

 

Interesting. The wheels somehow look too big on the model, perhaps the splashers are too small (the right size of the smaller 4' 10" wheels on the MR 3130) . The the chimney looks looks like it tapers in rather than out (or is parallel) on  the prototypes in the link. Did Neilson and Kitson, who built these locos for the M&GNR, fit their own style of chimney?

 

The LNER site states that Falcon Brass did a J40 kit, but it doesn't appear on the new FB site. 

[mozzer models]

Interesting. The wheels somehow look too big on the model, perhaps the splashers are too small (the right size of the smaller 4' 10" wheels on the MR 3130) . The the chimney looks looks like it tapers in rather than out (or is parallel) on  the prototypes in the link. Did Neilson and Kitson, who built these locos for the M&GNR, fit their own style of chimney?

 

The LNER site states that Falcon Brass did a J40 kit, but it doesn't appear on the new FB site.

it there LNER LK131 class D loco

[Johnhobden]

Only just seen this topic so apologies for late reply.

 

The lovely 0-6-0 posted by LNWR modeller looks like a London Road Models J3 (larger boiler than GNR J4).  These kits were designed by George Norton and are a bit dated. The 0 gauge version now marketed by Gladiator is a first rate kit.  The livery in the picture is correct unlike that of the Class C 4-4-0 below it.  One batch of Class C locos had light brown wheels but none had light coloured tender frames.

 

The 4-4-0Ts were by Jidenco/Falcon Brass.

 

There is another J3/4 (M&GN Class Da) available from Ace Models (William Ascough).  There may soon be a M&GN Class A 4-4-2 tank available from Ace and promises to be a very good kit without the issues associated with the J3/4

 

The 3130 class Midland locos had smaller wheels than the M&GN D Class but it is not too difficult to create a M&GN Class D from them.  These kits were also designed by George Norton.

 

The Alan Gibson 2F can be made into a M&GN Class D and the 3F can be made into a Class D rebuilt with G7 boiler.

 

Full info on M&GN locos is available in Bob Essery's book on the M&GN and its Locos (Lightmoor)

 

John Hobden, M&GN Circle

[Jol Wilkinson]

Hello John,

 

the Gladiator Models site lists the J3 as being the last of the Fourtrack Models designs, albeit with a new chassis from PG Designs. It is therefore very possible that it is "blown up" from the 4mm kit that LRM produce. Certainly the two tenders offered with it are from the George Norton/LRM range.

 

George sold the 4mm and 7mm kits to John Redrup of LRM and the 7mm ones passed to John Shelley of Fourtrack some years later. I knew John Shelley having redesigned one 4mm LNWR loco kit for him in 7mm. I don't think he ever designed anything himself, so if the 7mm J3 is markedly different from the 4mm version then it was probably designed for him under then guidance of the late Malcolm Crawley. Malcom, a former Doncaster apprentice, was also the guiding hand for the GN/LRM GNR locos designs.

 

Jol

[t-b-g]

Perhaps I can just clarify a couple of matters regarding those gorgeous looking locos!

 

Malcolm Crawley didn't ever finish any locos in M & GN livery. The ones he built in M & GN condition were both finished in LNER livery, after they took the locos over.

 

He did the 2F as a conversion of his own kit design for George Norton and the MR style 4-4-0 but he never did a GN 0-6-0 in M & GN condition, so I am pretty sure that those two locos, lovely as they are, are not his work.

 

The London Road J3/J4 had an unusual design process. It was started by somebody who got a bit bogged down and it came to Malcolm for finishing off. My memory is not 100% on this but I think it may have been Steve Barnfield who started the work. Malcolm found that finishing off somebody elses design quite frustrating and there were many times when he reckoned that he would have been better off starting again because the parts already drawn were not as he would have done them.

 

Each kit designer has their own ways of doing things and watching Malcolm trying to marry up his methods with what had already been done was interesting to say the least!

 

The kits that Malcolm did draw for George Norton/London Road Models were the G5, J6, Precedent, K2, 2F plus a number of GNR tenders. I hope I haven't forgotten any. He did all the artwork drawing by hand on his old ex railway drawing board.

 

He often wondered if it was the only drawing board that had been used to design real locos as well as model ones by the same person. It probably was!

 

Castings for the kits were sorted out by others. He also did a fair degree of advisory work and much test building on a number of other kits.

 

Tony

[trainboy656]

On 03/09/2013 at 12:39, DaveF said:

The Jidenco/Falcon Class B can be built, below is a photo of one I built  30+ years ago.

 

One day I will sort out the "temporary" repair to the crosshead and piston rod!

 

The one in the background is a 7mm scale version from  (I think) Loveless parts, again built around 15 years ago.

 

Neither is perfect but they give me a lot of pleasure - and they both work well.

 

 

David

 

Edited for spelling again.

D

Oh wow, this HAS come full circle...

I take it you no longer have the 00 scale variant of this loco. I picked her up in a model railway show in Newcastle around a year ago or so. How do I know she's yours? She still has that "temporary" repairs done on her crossheads. Granted when I had acquired her, a lot of those finer details seemed to have disappeared. Looking up I found out about her "wild west" autocoach and made swift action to rectify this. She might be old now, but she's still got plenty of fight left in her I can tell you that. Really IS a small world out there...!

[russ p]

I think coupling an M&GN loco to a network rail coach could cause William Marriott's ghost to burn your house down!

He certainly would not have liked the way the modern railway has gone 

[DaveF]

18 minutes ago, trainboy656 said:

Oh wow, this HAS come full circle...

I take it you no longer have the 00 scale variant of this loco. I picked her up in a model railway show in Newcastle around a year ago or so. How do I know she's yours? She still has that "temporary" repairs done on her crossheads. Granted when I had acquired her, a lot of those finer details seemed to have disappeared. Looking up I found out about her "wild west" autocoach and made swift action to rectify this. She might be old now, but she's still got plenty of fight left in her I can tell you that. Really IS a small world out there...!

 

 

 

 

I sold all my 00 gauge a couple of years ago when I decided to concentrate on 0 gauge and n gauge, I think I know which trade stand you bought it from.

 

She always was a good runner - to be honest one of the best runners of the locos I built.   I wonder what happened to the safety valve attached to the dome?

 

I still have the 0 gauge one in my photo and run it regularly.

 

David

[Thane of Fife]

Evenin' all 

 

I bought a job at auction a couple of years ago. It included a Midland 3F tender loco which I intend fitting with a home made extended smokebox to produce a J41.

 

I  think London Road models do a Midland 3F tender loco.

 

Malcolm

[Shed82CB]

17 hours ago, DaveF said:

 

 

I sold all my 00 gauge a couple of years ago when I decided to concentrate on 0 gauge and n gauge, I think I know which trade stand you bought it from.

 

She always was a good runner - to be honest one of the best runners of the locos I built.   I wonder what happened to the safety valve attached to the dome?

 

I still have the 0 gauge one in my photo and run it regularly.

 

David

David,
I'm curious, having seen a video running what motor you used? was it K's or something else?
Thanks, Rebecca