DJModels announce new models in N, OO and O

[Horsetan]

Dear Dave ArkleyYou must have wanted at least one N gauge class 17, or you wouldn't have ordered them (in the plural). Now you have cancelled that/those order(s), but you obviously still want one/them (if you don't, why did you pre-order them in the first place?). Since nobody else produces models of class 17, how are you going to get them? Scratch building, I suppose. Good for you, it's nice to see new people attempting scratch building in N gauge these days.....

There is a class 17 available in 2FS. You'll find it in the Judith Edge range.

 

Happy building.

[newbryford]

 

 

I'm very disappointed Dave.

 

 

 

Reminds me of this.....

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7qnd-hdmgfk

 

Cheers,

Mick

[Roy L S]

Being updated is great, but only if there is something new to say surely?

 

We always knew Dave would not be producing all the initially announced models at once and that the 00 J94 would be first. That is on it's way, we have seen tangible progress.

 

We just need to be patient in just the same way as we have had to be for any number of Farish or Dapol models - how long before we saw an EP of the Farish Ivatt 2-6-0? Was it worth the wait when it did appear? For sure it was as Dave's models will be too...

 

Personally I am happy to wait for my Clayton "twins", I never thought in a million years I would ever see one RTR in British N anyway so it is a welcome bonus.

 

I would reflect on the alternative to waiting for my Claytons anyway. There is the Parkwood resin kit (which by the nature of the material used is a bit "rustic")  the etched kit referred to above or a scratch build. I have tried the first, and done the best I can (it currently sits on a dummy chassis as the one it is designed for is impossible to get hold of) and while I may (just) have the skill to have a go at the second or a scratchbuild I know it will never come close to what we will ultimately see Dave produce.

 

So I will hang in there and remain patient and in the meantime play with my other trains!..

 

Roy

[rab]

Before retiring I worked in an engineering design office. Our products were similar in that they involved plastic mouldings, pressed metal and machined parts, and electrical components and assemblies.

We had a team of 15-20 designers, almost as many engineering support staff, and a marketing team to keep potential customers informed (supposedly)!

We were accustomed to projects taking 18 months to 2 years from concept to full production. On one occasion we were given less than 12 months for a new product release. Needless to say the deadline was missed and in fact a lot of extra time had to be spent putting right problems which were missed originally due to insufficient time.

Dave is trying to wear all the hats, and as already been said, asked to do everything better than the big boys.

Give the man a break. Just be thankful he's had the courage to step out on his own and compete with the big boys.

 

(Quote often heard in the office, Do you want it now or do you want it right)!

[grandadbob]

Back in September 2013 I placed an order/expression of interest direct with Dave for a J94 which hasn't (yet) arrived.

Guess what?

It has not cost me anything yet.

I haven't had a nervous breakdown because it hasn't appeared.

Nobody has died!

When it arrives (as I'm sure it will eventually) I will be a happy bunny Bobby.

[Horsetan]

....Nobody has died!....

There is a first time for everything.

[DaveArkley]

Hi,

 

Good question and one I've answered more than a few times on this forum.

 

There is not a project either pending or completed that I have not had design input ( except the SPA where my skills were used elsewhere to bring it to market).

 

So, my involvement will be and can be whatever the client wishes (it's his money after all) However to say specifics, would not be a correct thing to do.

Cheers

Dave

 

 

From the opening post on this topic

 

'Each model will feature on the ‘timeline’ page which will show you when every process from start to shipping has taken place,'

 

The main thrust of my post (and obviously from the reaction here I didn't get that over well) was that I believe that the initially announced models are vapour-ware because there has been no update on the timeline since September 2014.

 

In Dave's response to my post he mentions that he's rejected the J94 tooling and had it reworked. No mention of that on the timeline, hence not honouring his promise to show every process on the timeline.

 

I meant to bemoan the lack of the promised openness, one of Dave's USPs was that he would keep us informed every step of the way. Maybe he has, on this forum, Facebook etc, but he has not kept the timeline up to date on his own website.

 

As for those who have helpfully pointed out that having pre-ordered a pair of class 17 I must have wanted them, well yes I did.

I put money aside for pre-orders, and I've cancelled my pre-order to free up those funds for something else because I have no indication when they might arrive. I appreciate Dave doesn't want to commit to a date he may well not be able to keep to, but with zero updates on their progress in the last six months I assumed they were not coming any time soon.

 

Since Dave is the guy putting the money on the line he will deliver these things in the order which makes most commercial sense to him, that makes perfect sense. But what doesn't make sense (to me at least) is a promise of great things compromised by the lack of the open communication which I was led to expect. Clearly many of the readers(and posters) on here don't have a problem with this, I was pointing out my personal feelings on the matter. And I get the feeling that posters think I'm bashing Dave for not being 'quick enough'. I'm not, I'm critisising him for not keeping the timeline up to date...his communication ion the DJM website is no better than that on his competitor's sites, and that's a shame.

 

And those class 17s? When I know an ETA and if I have the funds available, and if no-one else already has beaten Dave to market, and there have been successful reviews of Dave's products released to date then I will reorder them.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

[Horsetan]

Such impatience.

[Les1952]

Unlike Dave A  I'm keeping all of my models on order with Sherwood Models (1 OO and 2 N J94, a Clayton in N, two Q6 and one Hudswell in N) and am thinking of adding a OO Q6 and Hudswell..  There is also a Hattons 71515.

 

Why?

 

As others have said I'm not being asked to fork out any money in advance.  If any fail to appear I'm not out of pocket.

They are going to be spread over quite a long period so the maximum I'll need to find in one go is a pair of locos.

It keeps faith with a local dealer who has been very good to my local club over a number of years.

 

As for vapourware the J94 I had hold of at Coventry and the O2 that Kernow let me hold at Farnborough were a bit heavy to be vapour, though the 3D print of the Clayton CAD was a bit fragile......

 

 

Les

[BG John]

And I get the feeling that posters think I'm bashing Dave for not being 'quick enough'. I'm not, I'm critisising him for not keeping the timeline up to date...his communication ion the DJM website is no better than that on his competitor's sites, and that's a shame.

So maybe the only problem then is that Dave was a bit over enthusiastic with his promises to keep his web site up to date, and perhaps as a one man band he's finding it a bit harder than expected to keep up with everything he'd like to do. Presumably most of his competitors have rather more people involved to do these things, and every hour he spends thinking about or working on his web site delays new products. I'd rather he spent the time producing all this stuff that's no good to me, so I can have a Kernow Railmotor while I've still got enough brain cells left to appreciate it, and the dexterity to convert it to EM!!!

[NHY 581]

I'd rather he spent the time producing all this stuff that's no good to me, so I can have a Kernow Railmotor while I've still got enough brain cells left to appreciate it, and the dexterity to convert it to EM!!!

I can sympathise with this. I very recently had a few reminders of my own mortality.

On a positive note, should it ever become too problematic, I have a plan.

 

In my dotage, I shall employ a young Russian nurse......to assist me with my modelling projects......ah yes!....I can see it now.....The close fitting pvc uniform.....

 

" Vould you like me to pop the three way there or vould a left and right suffice?"

 

"Vhere vould you like your static grass applicator"

 

"For you, I have special DPDT. ......"

 

 

Ah yes!

 

Rob

[stewartingram]

I'm afraid this subject tends to follow society trends elsewhere - much of the "me,me" attitude, such as in driving standards for instance. Myself, I'm behind Dave, give him a chance. Nothing else to say really.

 

Stewart

[DJM Dave]

I must admit I'm still at a loss here.....

 

If I put nothing (progress wise) I'm accused of vapourware, but then by putting "nothing new to add" or something like it a very week or 2 for 6 months, I'm accused of lack of progress.

 

I'll check but I thought the relevant website page had wording to the effect that 'when I had something to say I'd say it here'? If not I'll add it today.

 

I suppose damned if I do, damned if I don't! Ah well.

 

Cheers

Dave

[TheSignalEngineer]

 

Nobody has died!

 

A former colleague of mine never saw the Morgan car he pre-ordered.

[TheSignalEngineer]

More seriously, do any of the members commenting on here have first hand experience of getting a real train or other railway project to fruition? 

 

How long did the APT project run?

 

In-cab signalling on WCML was promised to Beardy by Railtrack for full service in 2005, supervised from the bunker at Saltley.

 

(Add your own pet project/train here)

 

Dave, I was once asked by my boss what qualities were needed to do my job of bringing wish lists of projects to fruition. My reply was "Unlimited stamina and a thick skin"

[DaveArkley]

I must admit I'm still at a loss here.....

 

If I put nothing (progress wise) I'm accused of vapourware, but then by putting "nothing new to add" or something like it a very week or 2 for 6 months, I'm accused of lack of progress.

 

I'll check but I thought the relevant website page had wording to the effect that 'when I had something to say I'd say it here'? If not I'll add it today.

 

I suppose damned if I do, damned if I don't! Ah well.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Looking at your reply to my initial post Dave it looks like you have plenty to say, you just haven't said it on your timeline page, which gives the impression that nowt's happened where this is clearly not the case. It's not rocket science, just basic, effective communication in the Internet age. I'm not bemoaning your efforts in getting models produced, I am pointing out that you could communicate that progress better. 

 

I'll give up now, clearly I'm in the minority.

 

Cheers

Dave

[griffgriff]

I must admit I'm still at a loss here.....

If I put nothing (progress wise) I'm accused of vapourware, but then by putting "nothing new to add" or something like it a very week or 2 for 6 months, I'm accused of lack of progress.

I'll check but I thought the relevant website page had wording to the effect that 'when I had something to say I'd say it here'? If not I'll add it today.

I suppose damned if I do, damned if I don't! Ah well.

Cheers

Dave

TBF if you inform us that you have achieved little or just, silently, achieved little it's more case case of 'dammed if you haven't or dammed if you don't'

[BigAndy]

y'know, it kind of amazes me what the expectations level is these days of some people.

 

As Harold MacMillan once said " You've never had it so good ". What I'm refering to is the sheer ammount of rtr products ( and maufacturers ) that are available to the customer these days. Who would have thought 30 years ago that someone like Heljan would be mass producing RTR locos and stock in 7mm?

The standard of N gauge rtr absolutely astounds me these days, and it's down in no small part to people like DJM Dave. He personally oversaw some fantastic product releases when he was at Dapol and now he has been brave enough to go it alone, stick his head above the parapet, and offer yet even further rtr releases as his own stand alone company.

 

I personally model in 4mm, but about 36 years ago, having mithered my Dad silly, I was bought a minitrix train set for Christmas, augmented by a Lima freight train set - all in N gauge. The standard back then was dubious to say the least - the minitrix set was a 27 and a couple of maroon mk1's - the 27 was on some generic continental chassis and the less said about the Lima N gauge 31, the better.

I happened to get interested in N gaue as the first of the 3 pole motored Graham Farish diesels were just starting to appear, and I thought they were brilliant at the time, but agains today's standards? They don't even comapare...........

 

What it did do, was encourage me to start kit bashing and modifying my N gauge fleet, in a chidhood attempt to make it look better. Ultimately, I decided to make the transition to 4mm, which is where i am still at - but I then started to kit bash and detail the Lima locos that were starting to make an appearance - all leading to the point I am at today, in my mid 40's and the skills i have picked up over that time.

 

The point I am making here is that at one time, the modeller had NO choice but to kit bash and modify, in order to get something that was needed. Blimey, 40 years ago, N gauge diesel fans would have sold a kidney to have even have got something as mainstream as a 47 or a 37 - so when I see someone with Dave's credentials and modelling expertise get hung out to dry because he hasn't updated his website for a few months, just absolutely flabbergasts me!

 

If you are really so hung up on having a class 17 - why not go out, buy a kit and build one yourself?, or as modellers did 40 years ago, scratchbuild one! If you haven't got the necessary skills to achieve this, then I think it is kind of abusive to harangue a manufacturer because your own wishlist isn't serviced within 6 months of the model being announced.

 

Nobody on here is having a go because you have dared to air your opinion, RmWeb is a great place for discussions and debate, but when it starts to get to the point of posting criticiism aimed at one individual then it starts to get peoples backs up. By all means, question DJM Dave, ask him what's going on, but please have a reality check on what you are submitting before putting it in the public domain.

 

I'm off now to carry on the respray of a 47 I've got on the go........and maybe tinker some more with my rake of coaches that I'm detailing up with Extreme etchings window frames...........damn I love my hobby..........

 

cheers

 

Andy

[The Stationmaster]

More seriously, do any of the members commenting on here have first hand experience of getting a real train or other railway project to fruition? 

 

How long did the APT project run?

 

In-cab signalling on WCML was promised to Beardy by Railtrack for full service in 2005, supervised from the bunker at Saltley.

 

(Add your own pet project/train here)

 

Dave, I was once asked by my boss what qualities were needed to do my job of bringing wish lists of projects to fruition. My reply was "Unlimited stamina and a thick skin"

A very good point SE 

 

I got two schemes through to completion (development of infrastructure changes and operating method over the entire route to & at Didcot, and the terminal layout at Avonmouth for the imported coal scheme. And London area freight facility changes for Heathrow electrification) plus involvement in Rule Book and Block Regulation revision in the mid 1980s, and a completely revised freight train planning/WTT production process on the WR in the 1990s.

 

The following either fell by the wayside or were cancelled for budgetary reasons - Worcester area resignalling (not authorised for development); closure of Norton Jcn signalbox - scheme authorised and work started, budget provision withdrawn; Bradford Jcn - Bathampton singling - pushed through from concept to full authority in record time and authorised but then shoved in a drawer and forgotten as it was basically a 'political' scheme devised as a sop to Mr Serpell's loony ideas.  In addition I suppose I ought to count the work done for two earlier versions of what turned into the Avonmouth scheme which in one case actually got as far as detailed track drawings and an SFD - both cancelled by external client.  I'll say nothing about various things in my final big railway job as it was all so deeply political it was always obvious to me that even major changes I made to various plans in order to reduce operating costs and improve services would never happen come privatisation - and they didn't.

 

The simple fact is that when things are not completely within your control outside factors can have a big influence - be it positive or negative.  And even when they are wholly under your control priorities can change or be changed, and you might even have to change them yourself.  To be honest I suspect that it is little different from that for everybody involved in any sort of model railway manufacturing - be it supplying materials (even as humble as sleepers), components, kits or r-t-r and even those who build on commission are not immune from outside influences, illness or whatever.

[Arthur]

 

I've absolutely no doubt that at the inception of DJ Models Dave had a clear vision and intention of a regular series of progress announcements as the models developed. I am equally sure that he still has.

 

However, the reality has been that things change, delays occur, problems arise, commercial confidentiality becomes an issue, elements of two steps forwards, one backwards creep in.

 

Much as we, and no doubt Dave, might like a regular linear development which would lend itself to regular updates, the truth is development is a series of jumps, halts, crawls etc. such that meaningful announcements on a regular basis become difficult and largely meaningless.

 

We do get updates, we are seeing models coming through, DJ Models are starting to deliver.

[Clearwater]

Given the comments on this thread, and the Hornby stopping commercial samples thread, seems to me that there's an article or two that could be written to inform the modelling public of the process of development from developer saying "it'd be a good idea" to it hitting the shops going through the whys and wherefores and problems faced in getting a model to market. Per the modified hall thread could cover the compromises required, eg reuse of tools for tenders etc to keep retail price down

[Bernard Lamb]

Oh dear me.

The negativity seems to be spreading.

Give me a call when the old style friendly forum is back.

Bernard

[NHY 581]

Dave, something for you to print off and pin on your office wall. Then when you are looking at another well informed grumbly post, have a glance at this. ........

[StuartM]

When you make a phone call, you get the ringing tone

This tone means absolutely nothing, its just put on the line to keep you amused,

because if you made a phone call and nothing happened, as is human nature, you'd wonder if the phone was working and you'd probably get bored and then hang up.

 

And I think the same principle applies here,

surely a monthly update wouldn't hurt, even if there is little to report, at the very least it would reassure people that you haven't gone away.

 

Looking forward to all the ngauge locos as and when they become available

Stuart

[Igor]

... surely a monthly update wouldn't hurt, even if there is little to report, at the very least it would reassure people...

Stuart

I agree entirely. It's still not obvious from the DJM website homepage about the progressive funding format, or indeed a simple list of the all the announced projects as requested. I suggested this ages ago.

 

I remain convinced most of the hassle has come about from announcing so much stuff and then stoking the fires on here and not updating the website.

 

I say this without malice, but if DJ Dave spent even half as as much time updating, writing for, and improving his own website as he does on this forum then many of the criticisms that people have made would be unfounded.

 

If all Davies writings were duplicated on the website then it would be archived and form a useful searchable resource enabling many questions to be answered without repeating. Surely that would save a lot of valuable time. Thinking on an extensive FAQ would be just as good.