RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2015 On the other hand I had sight of proposals for electrification from London to Swansea and Bristol to York passing across my desk as long ago as 1969. (Items 2 and 3 in the BR electrification wishlist after KX to Edinburgh IIRC) When Moreton Cutting marshalling yard was closed back in the 1960s the land wasn't sold and in my early years on the London Division I asked why and was told that it was being retained as a base for electrification (although the connection had gone). Despite giving it a fancy new name it now really is a construction and materials storage base for the scheme - so that one was 'reserved' 50 years before it was 'introduced'. West London carriage sidings/Barlby Road didn't have so long to wait - closed by the late '60s it was retained as it was reputedly earmarked as a depot site for Channel Tunnel trains; it reopened in the 1990s as part of North Pole International Eurostar depot (but nobody even thought of Hitachi of course or the fact that one day it would be reconnected to the GWML at the Ladbroke Grove end ). Do you do what I do at shows? I often look at layouts with complex track pnas and think how I could convert it to a basic railway - think what the Bath Green Park layout would look like with a single platform in the station with perhaps a run round loop, one kick back siding and then two single lines following each other to where the lines diverge Back in the 1980s when I was doing a lot of what if scenarios for the Western in response to Mr Serpell's drastic ideas I conjured with one scheme which was to convert the route between Reading and Paddington to 4 parallel single lines but while it would have offered massive cost savings it would clearly have had capacity problems - so a few minutes later I moved on to something more realistic (probably singling most of Cornwall). However one idea got a little bit further and, as I have related in the past, was actually put as an item on the agenda for a meeting where schemes went for approval to develop. Several of us, including the meeting Chairman (the Deputy GM) had a theory that many attendees at the meeting didn't properly read the papers which were submitted for each proposal. I therefore wrote a single page document for to seek authority for a scheme to substantially increase train speeds (from the then current maximum of 125 mph) and my boss agreed to it going on the agenda as the last item. There were a few waffly paragraphs about the need to increase speeds, the simplicity of doing so etc, but the sting was in the final sentence which read, roughly 'So authority is now sought to develop a scheme to increase the gauge of Western Region routes to 7ft in order to improve running stability at the high speeds now envisaged' If nothing else it absolutely proved that nobody attending the meeting had read that paper (among others) before the meeting, including the Chairman - who congratulated me on my sense of humour but added that it was a good job the meeting had taken place on 1 April. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 So anyway, how does this resolve the issue of how long I have to wait for a Kernow Railmotor, that's being designed by one bloke sitting at his kitchen table with a laptop? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
40F Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 So anyway, how does this resolve the issue of how long I have to wait for a Kernow Railmotor, that's being designed by one bloke sitting at his kitchen table with a laptop? That sophisticated I thought it was the back of a fag packet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted May 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2015 So anyway, how does this resolve the issue of how long I have to wait for a Kernow Railmotor, that's being designed by one bloke sitting at his kitchen table with a laptop? As my old Chief Draughtsman used to say "Do you want it now or do you want it right" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 Someone asked how long real railway projects take? Let's take the Hitchin Flyover as an example: Early 1950's - outline proposal submitted as part of ER's ECML incremental upgrades (may even have been proposed in LNER days?). Not approved. Early 1980's - outline proposal submitted (slightly different) as part of GN electrification extension to Royston. Not approved. Late 1990's - outline proposal submitted (by me this time) as part of Railtrack ECML upgrade proposals. Approved to outline design stage, but hit land footprint problems, especially with nearby school..Put on backburner for future schemes. mid-2000's - put back on the approved list and re-designed to avoid school problem (I had moved on by then). A few years ago (year?) - finally completed. So, about 60 years or more. Which makes Dave look very fast indeed. I travel on the Cambridge line a couple of times a week. I'd say that 50% of the down journeys still use the ladder crossing to weave over the ECML, not the flyover. I have no idea why this is - I would have thought it would be a much better idea to use the flyover all the time - but it does make me wonder just how important this scheme was. So maybe all those knock-backs were the right decisions? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie Whizz Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 As my old Chief Draughtsman used to say "Do you want it now or do you want it right" I think he wants it right now! (I'll get me coat ...) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold farren Posted May 29, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 29, 2015 He wants it right now and it should be right for the money your paid! Would be my old bosses view! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted May 29, 2015 Share Posted May 29, 2015 To answer Black Rat- My uncle worked at Darlington loco works. Pay was above similar industries outside of the railway (his brother did similar work at the Whessoe- my father was one of six brothers, three of whom worked in engineering), and adjusting for inflation probably better than that in similar industries today, with no computers. Actually the LNER was very hard up financially, and some questioned whether the streamliners should be built at all- could they afford them? As an example of quick process, the curve of the A4 running plate didn't get to the drawing room until AFTER Silver Link had been built- they made that part of the loco by hand without the aid of a diagram then measured the results. The real result of going for it was that in the first year of running the LNER streamliners the total cost of providing the service was 18% of the fare revenue raised. in other words for every £100 in receipts they spent £18 in running costs. This explains the rapid expansion of the service- the train recovered its building costs faster than any rail project since, and each service paid the construction cost of the next. Then again, the LNER board put their faith in the team producing the goods and let them get on with it without bellyaching about every tiny detail. That, surely should be a lesson for us all, methinks. Just a thought Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenw Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Long running projects; The first electric ECML loco built in 1922. ECML electrification completed 1991 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jsp3970 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 How about the channel tunnel? Started construction on the first tunnel 1880, opened 1994 (not the same one mind you) but thats 114 years! I will state that I am not upset regarding what is going on. Dave has a life, he sleeps, he eats, for all we know he sings in long hot showers. The point is he is showing progression on the model and while it may not be fast for some he is only human and is trying to get a business of the ground. I for one am happy to just sit back and wait for the news that does come. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 How about the channel tunnel? Started construction on the first tunnel 1880, opened 1994 (not the same one mind you) but thats 114 years! I will state that I am not upset regarding what is going on. Dave has a life, he sleeps, he eats, for all we know he sings in long hot showers. The point is he is showing progression on the model and while it may not be fast for some he is only human and is trying to get a business of the ground. I for one am happy to just sit back and wait for the news that does come. God no, my singing voice is very poor, think of a cross between a drunken pub singer and whale farts, and that's my tuneless effort im afraid. Shame really as i really could belt them out as a youngling in the school choir in the early 70's :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Devo63 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Talking of long projects; I reckon Stonehenge will look good when they finally get the roof on They will need to do something with Stonehenge to improve it. All that time and effort and they never could get it to fly! Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenw Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 While I admit I can find waiting for new releases that have been announced tiresome, I do appreciate and expect that, particularly with the levels of accuracy and detail expected these days, these things do take time. In answer to previous posts, yes I would rather have it right that have it right now. I am however, at a total loss to understand the level of some of the criticism on here of Dave's perceived lack of progress. Surely it should be appreciated that Dave's a one man band starting out in manufacture on his own from scratch and yet his development times seem to be comparable with that of the established major manufacturers even in normal times, let alone the problems they've faced recently, with all the resources and experience they have in producing new models. I would have thought then on that comparison, that Dave would be seen as actually making good progress Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
talisman56 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 Do you do what I do at shows? I often look at layouts with complex track plans and think how I could convert it to a basic railway - think what the Bath Green Park layout would look like with a single platform in the station with perhaps a run round loop, one kick back siding and then two single lines following each other to where the lines diverge To do justice to a reasonable timetable for BGP it would have to be an Island platform... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted May 30, 2015 Share Posted May 30, 2015 The comment on ECML Electrification might read better as- First ECML Electric loco scrapped 1950 ECML electrification finally started 1976..... Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 I travel on the Cambridge line a couple of times a week. I'd say that 50% of the down journeys still use the ladder crossing to weave over the ECML, not the flyover. I have no idea why this is - I would have thought it would be a much better idea to use the flyover all the time - but it does make me wonder just how important this scheme was. So maybe all those knock-backs were the right decisions? Paul Because fasts and slows are "flighted" on the ECML, there will be gaps each hour where a down could easily use the flat crossing. Only essential for most of the peaks, particularly the shoulders and for one or two other hours when additional freight paths are reserved, primarily as a performance benefit (net gain was modelled at around 20 mins delay saved per day average, at around £1,000 per minute on peak ECML track access penalties, so an easy business case - c.4 yrs with DCF at the original estimate), although on the graph it actually costs an additional minute (rounded) to timings, which would be why they only use it when necessary. But, will be absolutely vital for the extra fast path per hour being currently negotiated for the ECML. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Storey Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 How about the channel tunnel? Started construction on the first tunnel 1880, opened 1994 (not the same one mind you) but thats 114 years! I will state that I am not upset regarding what is going on. Dave has a life, he sleeps, he eats, for all we know he sings in long hot showers. The point is he is showing progression on the model and while it may not be fast for some he is only human and is trying to get a business of the ground. I for one am happy to just sit back and wait for the news that does come. Dave sleeps? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJM Dave Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Dave sleeps? ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bennyboy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Dave sleeps? Nah, he has someone in China to do that for him. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
definate maybe Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 With the amount of moaning in this thread maybe a government petition should be set up. 100,000 signatures and it can be debated in the houses of parliament. Put aside all the tedious talk of the need for food banks, housing and jobs and have some real debate for once. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Les1952 Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Its RMWeb (could also be one of several other forums and any manufacturer) - Everyone spends ages bellyaching about how long the eagerly awaited model is taking, then when it arrives the conversation turns to how disappointed everyone is with it. To quote W.S.Gilbert "And isn't life extremely flat when you've nothing whatever to grumble at". Some things haven't changed since the eighteen eighties..... Les Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted June 1, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 1, 2015 ZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz Is the ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ "OO" and the zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz "N" ? Where can I pre-order them ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAndy Posted June 1, 2015 Share Posted June 1, 2015 Imagine all life as you know it stopping instantaneously and every molecule in your body exploding at the speed of light - total Protonic reversal............. It could happen if all the main RTR manufacturers all went bust or decided to throw the towel in! Where would that leave everyone?! Ooooooooh, the model railway scene circa 1970 when there was only really Hornby who produced anything for the British modeller in OO and punters had to kit build or scratch build ( perish the thought.....cough....) Point is, we're lucky to have companies like DJM. Look at the top of the RmWeb forum index - you have in excess of 14 manufacturers who deliver ( in the main ) top quality models for us all to play with. Does it really, i mean REALLY matter if a project takes one, two or even three years to hit the shelves? No it doesn't is the answer you need to remind yourselves with - if you still think it's that important to life, the Universe and every molecule in it - go and slap yourselves around the face with a wet Haddock - that ought to inject a reality check! cheers Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Steven B Posted June 2, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 2, 2015 No, it doesn't matter if a new model takes 2 or three years to be available. However, it's a little disappointing not to have seen more progress on some of the models. According to Dave's website the N Gauge J94, class 17 and 23 were approved for tooling to commence in May 2014 yet we've yet to see much evidence of progress. Dave, can you give up an update on all your projects? Which are still at CAD stage and which now have tooling available? Happy modelling. Steven B. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted June 2, 2015 Share Posted June 2, 2015 Invisible ink again? Dave has posted many times, lots of hidden progress but little in the way of tangible things to report. Tooling is a money pit, and Dave is a one-man-business who has mortgaged his home to set it up. Therefore cashflow is needed to progress.anything. Whatever happenned to patience? One thing with growing older, I have less hair, so things just go "whoosh" straight over my head without getting tangled.... Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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