MOVING COAL - A Colliery Layout in 0 Gauge

[PGH]

 

I recently discovered this photo of the first section of track laid on the layout at the entrance to the colliery sidings, which makes an interesting comparison with the present situation.  The first 3 points (2 left and bottom right in the photo) used Peco plastic point sleepering whereas all the remainder use wood sleepers cut from obechi.  The first checkrail and crossing chairs were built up from solder on a brass base plate, but I soon restricted the baseplate to just under and between the rails with cosmetic half chairs on the outside.

 

The points are operated from the slide switches bottom left described in Post # 71 - yet to receive the wiring for the change over switches.  All the rodding is buried under the scenery, probably not advisable in retrospect although its fairly robust and has been completely reliable so far.  Any problems will no doubt involve 'excavation' of the scenery.  The backscene is a left over from a previous layout.

 

 

[MarshLane]

Hi PGH,

Oh if only I had your level of creativity, patience and skill!  Absolutely superb layouts and one of the best (if not the best) non-main line railway layout I've ever seen.  I hope your amazingly proud of it because I would be.  I've just spent a very enjoyable hour reading through 10 pages on here, and will definitely be keeping up to date from this point forward. Seriously, well done that man!  If i could aspire to 20% of this result, as an O gauge modeller, I would be very happy!

 

Did you work out how to solve the problem of the end doors opening on the wagons while being loaded or travelling?

 

Keep up the good work!

 

Rich

 

[PGH]

Thanks for your comments Rich, much appreciated.

 

Did you work out how to solve the problem of the end doors opening on the wagons while being loaded or travelling?

 

Rich

 

No I haven't yet and the opening end door wagons are normally kept "out of service" as they aren't necessary until the end tippler is in operation.  However I do have a rough idea and just temporarily fitted one wagon to illustrate the point.  Basically its just a 'L' shaped wire catch retaining the bottom of the door, passing through a hole in the buffer beam with the end bent to form a vertical lever.  In practice the wire, perhaps of smaller dia than the 0.5mm shown, would be blackened and there would be a proper bearing replacing the strip of masking tape to keep the catch tight against the buffer beam.  The catch would be operated by moving the lever end with the shunters pole (or finger !).

 

 

Edited March 7, 2016 by PGH

[RGSrr]

Hi PGH

Simple and effective ( always a winning combination ) solution to end door security.  

Looking forward to the live load tipping video :-)

 

As ever superb craftsmanship

John

[RGSrr]

 

Plan View 1B.jpg

 

I recently discovered this photo of the first section of track laid on the layout at the entrance to the colliery sidings, which makes an interesting comparison with the present situation.  The first 3 points (2 left and bottom right in the photo) used Peco plastic point sleepering whereas all the remainder use wood sleepers cut from obechi.  The first checkrail and crossing chairs were built up from solder on a brass base plate, but I soon restricted the baseplate to just under and between the rails with cosmetic half chairs on the outside.

 

The points are operated from the slide switches bottom left described in Post # 71 - yet to receive the wiring for the change over switches.  All the rodding is buried under the scenery, probably not advisable in retrospect although its fairly robust and has been completely reliable so far.  Any problems will no doubt involve 'excavation' of the scenery.  The backscene is a left over from a previous layout.

 

 

Plan View 2B.jpg

 

Hi PGH  Thank you for sharing archaeological records.  The point rodding appears to be crafted to your usual high standard which ensures you can get away with burying under the scenery. The rest of us crawl around under the baseboard......

Cheers

John

[PGH]

Hi PGH

Simple and effective ( always a winning combination ) solution to end door security.  

Looking forward to the live load tipping video :-)

 

As ever superb craftsmanship

John

 

Thanks John.

 

There has been little progress recently on the layout as with the better weather attention has turned to the 'great outdoors' with such ridiculous extremes from this:

 

 

to this:

 

 

The latter is from the IP Engineering kit, sold by some as 7/8" scale but actually nearer 1" scale, which is not now available.  It is a strange concoction of mdf (inner chassis), plasticard (outer chassis) and whitemetal castings and is fitted with radio controlled battery power and sound.  There was a similar prototype example readily accessible and reasonably close at hand to examine in the shape of the ex Cilgwyn Quarry loco at the Slate Museum, Llanberis.  The model runs on 45mm gauge track and membership of the 16mm Association gives access to other members layouts locally in both 32mm and 45mm gauges. 

 

 

 

The Roundhouse Penrhyn Railway CHARLES shown in Post #174 has now received its new buffer beams and Penrhyn style buffers.  Shown here with a rake of Festiniog slate wagons from Slaters kits, still awaiting the "rustiness" to be added. 

 

Excuse this wander off topic, intended to show that I'm still "at it" (i.e. modelling).  I think its useful if enthusiasm for a long term project reaches a low ebb to try something different yet still keep within the model railway hobby.  No doubt  when we get to the usual summer weather - wind, rain, etc, etc - attention will return indoors to the colliery layout and the job of tipping wagons endwise.

Edited June 25, 2017 by PGH

[gandydancer]

This is a superb model and I appreciate the work and care that's gone into it.  I spent a lot of time in a round the Astley Green and Walkden Railway system in the last year of it's existence photographing and making movies of it.  I've have the 8mm film I shot there scanned to high resolution video files and started posting sequences on Youtube.  If you're interested her's a link to this historic film:

 

Astley Green and Walkden Railway 1969 - YouTube

 

Astley Green and Walkden Railway Part 2 - YouTube

 

Astley Green and Walkden Railway part 3 - YouTube

 

 

[Ruston]

Thanks for posting. I like the way you filmed the machines and men up close. Please let us know when you've done the complete film.

[PGH]

This is a superb model and I appreciate the work and care that's gone into it.  I spent a lot of time in a round the Astley Green and Walkden Railway system in the last year of it's existence photographing and making movies of it.  I've have the 8mm film I shot there scanned to high resolution video files and started posting sequences on Youtube.  If you're interested her's a link to this historic film:

 

Thanks Jon for your comments, PM and links to the videos - I look forward to seeing more of the action at Astley Green.

 

I made several visits to Astley Green during the last years of operation but it was mainly recorded on black & white photos with a few in colour, so its great to see it on film with sound as well.  

[PGH]

Operating a layout like this needs a fair amount of coal for loading/unloading.  Real coal is used and it may be of interest to describe how it is reduced to the required size.

 

First with the coal inside a thick polythene bag it was crushed down with a hammer to reduce the size to about ¼".  Then the coal was further reduced to the required sizes in a purpose made coal crusher - rather a 'Heath Robinson' affair, but it did the job !

Built largely from scrap materials it comprises a length of steel angle to which are bolted two short lengths of angle which act as pivots for a steel roller which can be turned by a handle.  The sketch and photo below should help to make this clear.  In use the device is clamped to some firm object - in my case an old coal bunker - outside the house, the latter being important as it tends to make loads of dust.

 

 

 

 

The steel roller is 1¼" diameter, a larger diameter would be better but that was the size to hand.  The surface is "distressed" by longitudinal gouges round its circumference.  Initially it was also provided with "teeth" in the form of short lengths of steel rod forced into holes and protruding about 1/16" from the surface.  However it has been used latterly for producing coal dust to mix with the track ballast and these have been filed away.  The gap between the roller and the face of the steel angle determines the size of material produced and this is adjusted by the packing pieces coloured blue in the above drawing.  The material is reduced in stages, narrowing the gap each time, until the required size is reached.

 

 

 

The material is fed into the device by a hopper with a flap cut into the bottom to direct the flow on to the roller. 

 

 

[PGH]

The coal is sized in old kitchen sieves plus the screening device shown below.

 

 

 

This comprises a tray with a section of aluminium mesh in the bottom mounted on a frame at a slight angle by four springs.  The tray is vibrated by a small electric motor with an out of centre flywheel mounted on top.

 

 

 

Samples of coal produced - approximate nominal scale sizes left to right: 3½", 2½" and 1½"

[Porcy Mane]

Interesting film of coal been loaded at a colliery screens and NCB hoppers being emptied in a rotary tippler in this Tyne-Tees documentary now archived on the BFI site.

As there is an associated photo it's probably quicker to link to directly to the post. The BFI link is towards the bottom of the post. The coal loading/unloading starts at about 6 mins 55 seconds in.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/101015-mikemegs-workbench-building-locos-of-the-north-eastern/page-2&do=findComment&comment=1962342

 

P

[branchie]

Everything you do is done with such precision PGH - it's really quite impressive!

[RThompson]

Interesting film of coal been loaded at a colliery screens and NCB hoppers being emptied in a rotary tippler in this Tyne-Tees documentary now archived on the BFI site.

As there is an associated photo it's probably quicker to link to directly to the post. The BFI link is towards the bottom of the post. The coal loading/unloading starts at about 6 mins 55 seconds in.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/101015-mikemegs-workbench-building-locos-of-the-north-eastern/page-2&do=findComment&comment=1962342

 

P

That was amazing watching the rotating tippler, you can not beat watching it happen in action and how the wagons are efficiently pushed out of the way and left to sort themselves out without extra shunting involved.

[PGH]

 

 

 

Its hard to believe that its nearly 10 months since there was any progress on the layout, time goes faster as you get older so they say.  More likely you just get slower so things take longer.  A second 7/8" scale (2ft gauge on 45mm track) live steam Accucraft Quarry Hunslet has been modified with some new parts and a repaint as the Penrhyn loco EDWARD SHOLTO.  It is currently awaiting the fitting of radio control.  The first, HUGH NAPIER previously illustrated in Post #169, is fitted with radio control and had several outings to garden layouts during the summer.

 

 

 

Four Penrhyn Railway wagons were constructed from kits

 

 

 

But back to the layout and work has now resumed on the facility for end tipping wagons, although after the above 7mm scale does seem rather small. 

Edited September 12, 2023 by PGH
christmas greetings now out of date

[PGH]

Before continuing work on the tippler structure the trackwork immediately outside has been completed.

 

 

 

 

The prototype at Boothstown near Manchester in 1970 looking out from the tippler building - on the left are the three full wagon sidings where wagons were left by the locomotive.  The wagons were then run individually by gravity on to the tippler (immediately behind the camera) and then, after emptying, run by gravity into the two low level sidings on the right for collection by the locomotive.  The point in the foreground therefore had both roads sloping but in opposite directions and instead of the conventional crossing or frog there was a hinged section of rail connected to the same lever that worked the blades.

Standing on this spot today you would be viewing an estate of "executive" style houses occupying the site of the sidings.  Behind the camera the canal basin is now a pleasure boat marina and to the left is a pub and restaurant.

 

 

 

A similar view on the layout where there was only room for single full and empty sidings.  More work needs to be done on the finish of the timber decking and provision of more "dirt" or spillage material.

 

 

 

The moveable crossing section of rail.

 

 

Edited September 12, 2023 by PGH

[PGH]

 

The operating parts for the point.  The small crank (left) is attached to the blade tiebar by the forked link below.  The large crank (right) is connected to the hinged crossing rail - shown below upside down.  The operating lever (centre) has two sockets pivoted to its forked lower end to take the rods connecting it to the cranks.  To complete the installation the cranks and lever were fixed in position and then the length of the rods adjusted to give the required movement after which they were soldered into the sockets.  Surprisingly this all went according to plan !  The round extension below the lever pivot houses a sprung plunger which bears on the bottom of the lever and keeps it in position.

 

 

 

The point set for full wagons entering the tippler

 

 

 

and set for empties leaving the tippler

 

Locos are not required to pass over this point.  The proposed method of operation is for loaded trains of say 6 wagons to be propelled towards the tippler, the lead wagon is detached and tipped, then  the loco pulls the remainder of the train clear of the point after which the empty wagon runs by gravity into the lower siding.  This is repeated for the next two wagons.  The loco then uncouples, collects the three empties and then pushes the remaining three full wagons individually into the tippler.  So there is always at least three wagons between the loco and the tippler.

[Osgood]

 

Seasons Greetings to anybody still following this thread, with a photo appropriate for the time of year if not for the topic.  

 

Fascinating information on the tippler point and method of use.  I really like the 'slightly time-worn' finish to your work.

 

Moving Coal updates are well worth the wait - how appropriate that the latest session of Cold Turkey should end just before Christmas.  

[PaulRhB]

Yes well worth the wait and a lovely piece of work recreating the mechanism.

[Ruston]

 

Locos are not required to pass over this point.  The proposed method of operation is for loaded trains of say 6 wagons to be propelled towards the tippler, the lead wagon is detached and tipped, then  the loco pulls the remainder of the train clear of the point after which the empty wagon runs by gravity into the lower siding.  This is repeated for the next two wagons.  The loco then uncouples, collects the three empties and then pushes the remaining three full wagons individually into the tippler.  So there is always at least three wagons between the loco and the tippler.

 

I am interested to know how you will make this work in model form. I guess on the real thing there would be a man armed with a brake stick to prevent the empties from running away but we don't have that and gravity doesn't scale down.

[PGH]

I am interested to know how you will make this work in model form. I guess on the real thing there would be a man armed with a brake stick to prevent the empties from running away but we don't have that and gravity doesn't scale down.

 

Very true, and industrial railways with lots of repetitive movements did make as much use as possible of gravity working.  One solution might be self propelled wagons but for me the complications and all the gubbins visible under the wagon would be unacceptable, and in any case you couldn't replicate the miniature brakeman required to accompany the wagon.

 

So the positioning of wagons on the tippler by a locomotive is a compromise.  However a limited amount of gravity working is proposed for the empty wagons.  The straight (empty) road of the point is graded so that all the wagons will roll unaided through it.  The tippler table will be inclined slightly in its rest position so that wagons will roll off it - hence the loco doesn't pull the remainder of the train clear until the wagon starts to tip.  Beyond the point the gradient of the empty track steepens and some form of control might be required to slow wagons down - vegetation rubbing on the backs of wheels or stiff nylon brush bristles set vertically between the track contacting the axles may be possibilities.  How this works in practice remains to be seen - watch this space !

 

With regard to the operation of the tip itself, unfortunately I never saw it in action as visits to the system were usually spent chasing the locomotives.  The design of the tippler table with its triangular support frame and adjustable weights suggests that it was finely balanced - see the video in Post #224 which shows that it starts to tip immediately it receives the wagon.  I suspect that the reduced centre of gravity with the wagon emptied then returned the wagon to the horizontal.  However whether this works in model form remains to be seen and controlling such movement may be a problem.  The current thinking is to add weight to the table if necessary under the floor at the outer (canal) end so it does tip automatically with the full wagon in position, then control this movement with a cord attached to the inner (sidings) end which will pass round a small pulley under the building then through a hole in the retaining wall to a drum driven by a motor.  Winding the cord out tips the load, winding it in returns the wagon to the horizontal.

[Arthur]

 

When my mates and I used to visit the Manchester Collieries system in 1969 and 70 we often seemed to be in the vicinity of that tippler around 1:00. We'd have our lunch in a small cabin built within the structure.

 

A couple of questions, if I may PGH.

 

In the prototype photograph you can see one of the winding towers at Moseley Common on the horizon. There is also a chimney which seems much closer and there appears to be some structures at the base of it. Was the chimney at Moseley Common or was there some other industry there? I don't recall anything.

 

 

Do you know if the arrangement of incoming tracks was the same or similar on the tippler further east at Worsley?

 

.

[MarshLane]

 

HOLY WAR at Dinorwic B.jpg

 

Seasons Greetings to anybody still following this thread. Its hard to believe that its nearly 10 months since there was any progress on the layout, time goes faster as you get older so they say.  More likely you just get slower so things take longer.  But back to the layout and work has now resumed on the facility for end tipping wagons, although after the above 7mm scale does seem rather small. 

Afternoon,

Definitely still following! I keep reading back over pages because 'Moving Coal' is just such an inspirational layout. Closely watching progress with the tipper, and yes I'd love to see more frequent updates, but as they say, everything comes to he who waits!

 

Happy Christmas

 

Rich

[PGH]

A couple of questions, if I may PGH.

 

In the prototype photograph you can see one of the winding towers at Moseley Common on the horizon. There is also a chimney which seems much closer and there appears to be some structures at the base of it. Was the chimney at Moseley Common or was there some other industry there? I don't recall anything.

 

Do you know if the arrangement of incoming tracks was the same or similar on the tippler further east at Worsley?

 

The chimney was at Mosley Common, about the same distance from the camera as the No.4 Shaft tower winder to the right.  At that date there were only fields each side of the line from the Leigh Road overbridge (seen in the distance of the sidings photo) to the East Lancashire Road overbridge, Mosley Common being immediately beyond.  The area has been fully developed since but only for housing.  There were two other chimneys at Mosley Common but they were demolished in the 1950s when steam power was replaced by electric.  The one in the photo was the tallest at 225 feet and was demolished in May 1972.  I think the structures appearing to be at the base of the chimney are actually pigeon lofts or sheds in the rear gardens of houses on the right.

 

 

 

The Worsley Canal Tip closed about 1961, much earlier than the Boothsbank Tip, and I don't think I ever visited the site.  I do have a couple of photos of the sidings, but as they are not mine I can't post them here.  The arrangement was similar to Boothsbank but with three empty roads instead of two and the two sets of sidings were closer together with a low retaining wall between rather than an earth bank.  There was a point with a hinged crossing like Boothsbank, then 2 two-way points from the full sidings instead of a three-way.  The entry to the empty sidings was via a three-way point.  The track leading to the tip was elevated on 7 brick piers and in earlier years a loco shed was sited underneath for the vertical boiler loco used to shunt Worsley Yard.

Edited December 23, 2016 by PGH

[5050]

Lovely stuff!  The point operation is very like the slate quarry NG pointwork for double flanged wheels, something I've often thought I would like to try and replicate.  Please keep posting!