Where are the Hornby models?

['CHARD]

Hmm, they're cutting it a bit fine with the Hornby 2013 wagon........

 

It's going to be released on my birthday, how lovely! 

 

(cue jokes from the gallery about a late birthday present)

[The Stationmaster]

Thanks for the list.  The bit which always fascinates me about these Hornby lists is the amazing precision of the dates - not all are 'week commencing' but a very exact date and moreover a mixture which suggests they might not receive a container load at a time but stuff out of groupage.  Maersk Line seems to estimate c.2 weeks transit between China and the UK so assuming sea transit anything shown as due at Margate by 14 October should already have left the factory in China although it could be subject to various delays enroute.  Obviously similar conclusions can't be reached for whatever is air-freighted (which according to SK was planned for the GW 'Stars' until they failed the drop test) and we simply don't know what, if anything is air-freighted.

 

However having in the past seen dates from Hornby which are well inside the overall transit time, and thus imply they were circulated after the goods had been despatched from the factory, and which still haven't arrived I have learnt to take this sort of information with a large pinch of salt.  It is no less interesting or helpful for that and thanks again for posting it although I wonder if I might get the 'Grange' I pre-ordered last year within 2 years of placing the order.

[Mike at C&M]

Thanks for the list.  The bit which always fascinates me about these Hornby lists is the amazing precision of the dates - not all are 'week commencing' but a very exact date and moreover a mixture which suggests they might not receive a container load at a time but stuff out of groupage.  Maersk Line seems to estimate c.2 weeks transit between China and the UK so assuming sea transit anything shown as due at Margate by 14 October should already have left the factory in China although it could be subject to various delays enroute.  Obviously similar conclusions can't be reached for whatever is air-freighted (which according to SK was planned for the GW 'Stars' until they failed the drop test) and we simply don't know what, if anything is air-freighted.

 

However having in the past seen dates from Hornby which are well inside the overall transit time, and thus imply they were circulated after the goods had been despatched from the factory, and which still haven't arrived I have learnt to take this sort of information with a large pinch of salt.  It is no less interesting or helpful for that and thanks again for posting it although I wonder if I might get the 'Grange' I pre-ordered last year within 2 years of placing the order.

One aspect that confuses me is that we are always being quoted that production slots need to be booked well in advance, so should the manufacturers not have a good grasp of what items are going to be produced when? Aside from failing drop tests and possible shipping problems, they must have a good idea of what is arriving when, but the consistent putting back of due dates suggests otherwise.

 

I too have a huge bucket of salt put to one side for when I am asked when someones' Christmas present will arrive.

[Dunsignalling]

Hi Mark,

If the phone call came, and it didn't unfortunately, I could have implemented certain things that would have put in place a single factory (not the 5/6 that Hornby are currently using I believe) along with a new way of doing things for both Hornby AND the Chinese, so that although a model might cost (depending on how much money you want to make out of old and new tools) slightly more to make, we are only talking a pound or less per model.

 

It wouldn't need anyone out there for any more time than a week every 3/4 months.

 

However I wouldn't have raised prices to do it, as better production and QC 'should' lead to higher sales and ergo more profit / turnover.

When your the master of your own destiny then life gets a lot easier.

 

There was lots more I could have done, but alas no fingers did any dialling.

Cheers

Dave

If Hornby are using that many factories, there are two likely interpretations:

 

1. They cannot get sufficient production slots quickly any other way.

 

2. They are trying out a number of sources with a view to finding out which one(s) are able/willing to do things the way they want without being micro-managed in it.

 

My suspicion is that (1) is a pragmatic reaction to things as they currently stand and (2) is their medium/long term strategy. If that is the case, I would expect them to settle on maybe two or three of them.

 

After the Sanda Kan episode (which is what started all this), putting all their eggs in one basket will not be on the options list. The frustration expressed in this thread will be as nothing compared to that felt at Hornby.

 

John

[The Stationmaster]

If Hornby are using that many factories, there are two likely interpretations:

 

1. They cannot get sufficient production slots quickly any other way.

 

2. They are trying out a number of sources with a view to finding out which one(s) are able/willing to do things the way they want without being micro-managed in it.

 

My suspicion is that (1) is a pragmatic reaction to things as they currently stand and (2) is their medium/long term strategy. If that is the case, I would expect them to settle on maybe two or three of them.

 

After the Sanda Kan episode (which is what started all this), putting all their eggs in one basket will not be on the options list. The frustration expressed in this thread will be as nothing compared to that felt at Hornby.

 

John

Agree absolutely with your last point - who couldn't, and the frustration does come through - very politely - from SK.

 

Difficult to split out the model railway element but in FY 2012 Hornby used 8 'vendors' in China with Kader taking 36% of that pie; FY2013 plan is also to use 8 'vendors' but with a considerable change in balance between them with , for example, production from Kader dropping from 36% to 13% while others are considerably increased (n.b. the total of 8 includes one group of 'others' - number unknown).

 

I'm not sure of the factory split within the Kader/Sanda Kan group but it is of course noticeable that Bachmann product from within that factory group has also been slow in coming forward this year as far as new models are concerned and some in Bachmann's case has turned up with errors which have led to product withdrawal from the retail market.  The implication is that problems of some sort exist within Kader/Sanda Kan which are impacting on actual production but not so much on product development (incidentally the Kader site suggests that at east one former Sanda Kan factory complex is still operational although that might be out of date of course).

[7013]

The list looks impressive and if all that lot does turn up on or around the stated dates it will hopefully give Hornby a much needed financial boost. It will also help to restore some of the faith that has been lost in Hornby. It would be good to see Hornby back up there vieing for sales with the other manufacturers. I was sorting out my stock today and a quick look at the Thompson O1 reminds me of what they are capable of when at their best.

[OnTheBranchline]

Hi Mark,

If the phone call came, and it didn't unfortunately, I could have implemented certain things that would have put in place a single factory (not the 5/6 that Hornby are currently using I believe) along with a new way of doing things for both Hornby AND the Chinese, so that although a model might cost (depending on how much money you want to make out of old and new tools) slightly more to make, we are only talking a pound or less per model.

 

It wouldn't need anyone out there for any more time than a week every 3/4 months.

 

However I wouldn't have raised prices to do it, as better production and QC 'should' lead to higher sales and ergo more profit / turnover.

When your the master of your own destiny then life gets a lot easier.

 

There was lots more I could have done, but alas no fingers did any dialling.

Cheers

Dave

 

You sound like a politician campaigning

[Multiple identity account 2]

https://railsofsheffield.com/east-coast-mk4-standard-open-coach-r4541-JJJA18577.aspx

 
Odd to see only one coach released, especially when it's expected to arrive in December....

[Durranhill]

1. They cannot get sufficient production slots quickly any other way.

 

 

If production slots are so difficult to come by why are Hornby still producing TAT like the Hornby 2013 wagon ?? when they could better use the slot for something else .

 

Stewart .

[Andy Hayter]

If production slots are so difficult to come by why are Hornby still producing TAT like the Hornby 2013 wagon ?? when they could better use the slot for something else .

 

Stewart .

 

Put simply, because Hornby believe they will make good profit from it and because, contrary to popular opinion on this site, the "finescale" modeller is still a minority of their market.

[gwrrob]

 contrary to popular opinion on this site, the "finescale" modeller is still a minority of their market.

 

I'm not a finescale modeller but still wouldn't want that 2013 wagon if they were giving them away Andy.Something much better could be made instead. 

[OnTheBranchline]

Where are the Hornby models?

 

They're not in my house, I checked.

[coachmann]

Put simply, because Hornby believe they will make good profit from it and because, contrary to popular opinion on this site, the "finescale" modeller is still a minority of their market.

Taking a 2008 Hornby, 16 pages are given over to Thomas, 10 pages the Railroad range, and 10 pages to trainsets.

 

Seeing as so much of Hornby's production is scale models, I am suprised 166 of the 202 pages are given over to a minority market....

[robmcg]

The Duke of Gloucester before Xmas would be nice. And the two Stars (GWR/BR). All these listed for November.

 

The various A4s including all 6 'Great Gathering' models on or about mid-December. I will watch with interest!

 

Here is a copy of the list given. Thankyou 87029. Much appreciated.

 

R1171, FLIGHT OF THE MALLARD, 14/10/2013

 

R1172, THE e-LINK MAJESTIC CONTROL, 29/10/2013

 

R2672, CALEDONIAN RLWYS 0-4-0 BLUE, 14/10/2013

 

R2784X, BR CLASS A4 MALLARD, 29/11/2013

 

R2920X, LNER CLASS B17/1 'SANDRINGHAM', 25/12/2013

 

R3019, BR (LATE) GRANGE CLASS WEATHERED, 06/12/2013

 

R3099, GREEN NRM FLYING SCOTSMAN, 25/12/2013

 

R3103, BR BITTERN DOUBLE TENDER SP ED, 25/12/2013

 

R3105, GWR CASTLE WELLINGTON (S'CHIMNEY), 16/12/2013

 

R3114, BR (LATE) B1 61270, 06/12/2013

 

R3115, BR UNREBUILT WEST COUNTRY EXETER, 16/12/2013

 

R3118, BR CASTLE 'PENRICE CASTLE', 09/12/2013

 

R3124, BR CLASS 42XX 4266, 04/10/2013

 

R3125, GWR CLASS 52 XX # 5274, 04/10/2013

 

R3127, GWR CLASS 72XX #7202, 04/10/2013

 

R3127X, GWR CLASS 72XX DCC FITTED # 7202, 28/10/2013

 

R3128, BR CLASS 72XX # 7229, 04/10/2013

 

R3133, EAST COAST MAINLINE TRAIN PACK, 16/12/2013

 

R3138, BR HST WESTERN REGION, 16/12/2013

 

R3160XS, BR LATE 'WINCANTON' WEST COUNTRY, 16/12/2013

 

R3161A, SR 2 BIL 2 CAR EMU TRAIN PACK, 14/11/2013

 

R3161AX, SR 2 BIL 2 CAR EMU TRAIN PACK, 18/11/2013

 

R3162A, BR 2 BIL 2 CAR EMU TRAIN PACK, 07/11/2013

 

R3162AX, BR 2 BIL 2 CAR EMU TRAIN PACK, 08/11/2013

 

R3166, GWR KNIGHT OF THE GRAND CROSS, 21/10/2013

 

R3166X, GWR KNIGHT OF THE GRAND CROSS, 28/10/2013

 

R3167, BR GLASTONBURY ABBEY 4000 CLASS, 04/11/2013

 

R3167X, BR GLASTONBURY ABBEY 4000 CLASS, 04/11/2013

 

R3168, DUKE OF GLOUCESTER 4-6-2, 22/11/2013

 

R3178, NCB PO 0-4-0 SENTINEL, 25/11/2013

 

R3179, ESSO SENTINEL 0-4-0 SENTINEL, 18/11/2013

 

R3180, TARMAC 0-4-0 SENTINEL, 18/11/2013

 

R3182, GBRF CL66 WOLVERHAMPTON WANDERERS, 21/10/2013

 

R3185, SOUTHERN CLASS 395 TRAIN PACK, 21/10/2013

 

R3191, BR CL8 SP ED DUKE OF GLOUCESTER, 09/12/2013

 

R3192, HERITAGE RAIL EXPRESS TRAIN PACK, 09/12/2013

 

R3196, THE GATHERING MALLARD, 01/11/2013

 

R3197, THE GATHERING DOMINION OF CANADA, 18/11/2013

 

R3198, THE GATHERING UNION OF SOUTH AFRI, 25/11/2013

 

R3199, THE GATHERING BITTERN, 11/11/2013

 

R3200, THE GATHERING DWIGHT EISENHOWER, 25/11/2013

 

R3201, THE GATHERING SIR NIGEL GRESLEY, 02/12/2013

 

R4333, LNER TEAK BRAKE, 02/12/2013

 

R4350, BR Mk1 COMPOSITE R/ROAD COACH, 11/11/2013

 

R4351, BR Mk1 3RD CLASS R/ROAD COACH, 11/11/2013

 

R4352, BR Mk1 BRAKE 3RD R/ROAD COACH, 11/11/2013

 

R4353, BR Mk1 COMPOSITE R/ROAD COACH, 04/11/2013

 

R4354, BR Mk1 3RD CLASS R/ROAD COACH, 28/10/2013

 

R4355, BR Mk1 BRAKE 3RD R/ROAD COACH, 28/10/2013

 

R4518A, LNER GRESLEY SURBURBAN 3RD BRAKE, 11/11/2013

 

R4522A, BR GRESLEY SURBURBAN 3RD BRAKE, 01/10/2013

 

R4531B, BR 61'6 (inch) FULL BRAKE, 28/10/2013

 

R4531C, LNER GRESLEY FULL BRAKE #2, 28/10/2013

 

R4534A, BR PUSH PULL COACH PACK, 25/11/2013

 

R4534B, BR PUSH PULL COACH PACK, 25/11/2013

 

R4536B, BR BOGIE PASSENGER BRAKE VAN, 18/11/2013

 

R4537, SR UNCONVERTED OPEN THIRD COACH, 25/12/2013

 

R4540, EAST COAST MAINLINE 1ST CLASS MK4, 29/10/2013

 

R4542, EAST COAST MAINLINE BUFFET CAR, 29/10/2013

 

R4566, BR EX LNER 61'6” CORRIDOR BRAKE, 28/10/2013

 

R4569, BR EX LNER 61'6” CORRIDOR BUFFET, 28/10/2013

 

R4585, BR BOGIE PASSENGER BR BLUE, 18/11/2013

 

R4586, BR BOGIE PASSENGER BR RED, 18/11/2013

 

R6577, PRESTWICH TARMACADAM 4 PLANK, 16/12/2013

 

R6579, THE NEWMARKET CO-OP 4 PLANK, 16/12/2013

 

R6581, MORECOMBE ELECTRICITY DEPT 4 PLK, 16/12/2013

 

R6586, CAMBRIAN WAGON WORKS 21 TON WAGON, 12/11/2013

 

R6588, 5 PLK WAGON EDWIN W. BADLAND, 16/12/2013

 

R6592, 4 PLK WAGON FLEETWOOD IND CO-OP, 16/12/2013

 

R6597, 5 PLK WAGON HOPTON-WOOD STONE, 16/12/2013

 

R6623, BR HORSE BOX EX GWR, 16/12/2013

 

R6624, BR 12 TON FISH VAN X3, 18/11/2013

 

R6638, BR 12 TON FISH VAN, 18/11/2013

 

R6638A, BR 12 TON FISH VAN, 18/11/2013

 

R6639, BR 12 PARCELS VAN SPVA, 11/11/2013

 

R6640, LMS 4 WHEEL CCT VAN, 18/11/2013

 

R6640A, LMS 4 WHEEL CCT VAN, 18/11/2013

 

R6641, BR 4 WHEEL CCT VAN, 25/11/2013

 

R6641A, BR 4 WHEEL CCT VAN, 25/11/2013

 

R6644, Hornby 2013 WAGON, 16/12/2013

 

R8312, E-LINK + RAILMASTER + 1 Amp PSU, 11/11/2013

 

R9751, HAGLEY FOOTBRIDGE, 28/10/2013

[petethemole]

R3185, SOUTHERN CLASS 395 TRAIN PACK,

 

That had me going for a moment! Then I realised....not a LSWR Adams 0-6-0 then.

[Legend]

Iif a loco fails a drop text a the 42xx allegedly did, wouldn't you make sure you learned the lesson and made damn well sure you raised that as an issue on next one? And yet............

[AngryMeerkat]

Iif a loco fails a drop text a the 42xx allegedly did, wouldn't you make sure you learned the lesson and made damn well sure you raised that as an issue on next one? And yet............

Did the loco fail the drop test?

Did the box insert containing the loco fail?

Did the box itself fail?

Did the carton containing 'x' number of boxes of models fail?

Did the outer carton containing the consignment fail?

Is the failure point the same for every model?

Does the packaging need to be redesigned or does the model itself need adapting?

 

Maybe they did raise it as an issue, then realised that maybe the solution isn't a quick fix.

 

Mark

[AngryMeerkat]

Hi Mark,

If the phone call came, and it didn't unfortunately, I could have implemented certain things that would have put in place a single factory (not the 5/6 that Hornby are currently using I believe) along with a new way of doing things for both Hornby AND the Chinese, so that although a model might cost (depending on how much money you want to make out of old and new tools) slightly more to make, we are only talking a pound or less per model.

It wouldn't need anyone out there for any more time than a week every 3/4 months.

However I wouldn't have raised prices to do it, as better production and QC 'should' lead to higher sales and ergo more profit / turnover.

When your the master of your own destiny then life gets a lot easier.

There was lots more I could have done, but alas no fingers did any dialling.

Cheers

Dave

To be quite honest Dave, I'm really glad you didn't get the call.

 

I'm hoping your current path offers exciting things for us modellers, but moreover I'm hoping you shake the industry up as a whole. Having followed your previous work I'm confident you can become a genuine challenge to the Hornby/Bachmann dominance of the RTR sector, and that you will raise the game. This would be good news for everyone, companies and modellers alike.

 

However a Hornby consultancy role would be beneficial for both parties I'm sure, anyone fancy nudging SK in the right direction?

 

Mark

[Ian Hargrave]

D.O.G.timed for Warley Show,then .........now THAT will be interesting,Squeeze a few more into the vestibule of a Pendolino decanting at Birmingham International.......

[7013]

This from Pat Hammond on MREmag:-

 

As I understand it, the local authority, in which the Sanda Kan factory stands, substantially increased the rates and so Kader decided to move production to another authority area. This is the reason given, although I can understand why people are suspicious.

 

It substantially hit Hornby’s main supply line and Hornby have been developing new sources for their models. However, it takes a long time to train new staff and get new businesses into production and one can only guess at the problem of doing so on the other side of the world and in a foreign trading, social and constitutional environment. I presume that all the original tooling is in the control of Sanda Kan, even though it belongs to Hornby.

 

As for bringing back production to Britain, I am told that the cost of the end product would still be too high to be competitive.

[Multiple identity account 2]

So Hornby is facing troubles with it's supply from China.....
Dapol is (see the image below)
Bachmann?? Anyone knows?
Hornby's Intl brands??  Anyone knows?
And what about ViTrains.... They were supposed to release two Large Logo 47s, a couple of 37s and one more 47 in POLICE livery....

Everyone seems to be facing delays.

[The Stationmaster]

D.O.G.timed for Warley Show,then .........now THAT will be interesting,Squeeze a few more into the vestibule of a Pendolino decanting at Birmingham International.......

Maybe, or maybe not.  But if the CCT and Fish Van are I suspect they will rapidly become 'rare species' on the model shop shelves as both looked pretty good under display cabinet lighting and they are actually useful for many folk (but engines always sell well, apparently). 

 

So Hornby is facing troubles with it's supply from China.....

Dapol is (see the image below)

Bachmann?? Anyone knows?

Hornby's Intl brands??  Anyone knows?

And what about ViTrains.... They were supposed to release two Large Logo 47s, a couple of 37s and one more 47 in POLICE livery....

 

Everyone seems to be facing delays.

Yes Bachmann is - refer my previous posts - but it looks as if part of the answer lies in the information about the former Sanda Kan factory?  I'm not so sure about where any delay is with Dapol but possibly not some much at the production end but a bit further back in the chain?

 

It will be interesting to see if 7013's report - above - about one of the ex-Sanda Kan factories and the aftermath will lead to a sudden mass arrival of overdue items from both Hornby and Bachmann, and whether it will be before or after Christmas.  However perhaps one thing we should be wary of is the reported cause of the upheaval with a local authority increasing taxes - a situation which could well become even more prevalent in China as many authorities have engaged in very substantial borrowing to fund development and at some time that debt will become more expensive to cover. 

['CHARD]

Maybe, or maybe not.  But if the CCT and Fish Van are I suspect they will rapidly become 'rare species' on the model shop shelves as both looked pretty good under display cabinet lighting and they are actually useful for many folk (but engines always sell well, apparently). 

 

 

Agreed.  I didn't need the Thompsons, but quantities of these are key.

[AngryMeerkat]

 

It will be interesting to see if 7013's report - above - about one of the ex-Sanda Kan factories and the aftermath will lead to a sudden mass arrival of overdue items from both Hornby and Bachmann, and whether it will be before or after Christmas.  However perhaps one thing we should be wary of is the reported cause of the upheaval with a local authority increasing taxes - a situation which could well become even more prevalent in China as many authorities have engaged in very substantial borrowing to fund development and at some time that debt will become more expensive to cover. 

The problem is due to get worse, not only in this industry but in any industry that uses Chinese factories to produce things. The Chinese economy has basically stagnated, the government idea of using internal sales and discounts to promote 'false' growth and financial figures to the world markets has come to an end, and the planned export figures just haven't materialised. Then we have the workers rights, fair pay and conditions, which is pushing production costs up at a rate which will soon make Chinese factories economically unviable compared to other emerging countries.

 

I predict in the next 10 years countries like Thailand and Malaysia will be the production centres that China currently is. They have the skills, the space, and the local populace willing to work. But moving production to a whole new country will mean further supply issues.

 

Mark

[DJM Dave]

28 Days!

 

Sorry to be a gloom and doom merchant, but this is something to remember here.

 

Loco's tend to take 30 days to manufacture approximately 1000 units.

In my experience that was 50% of a factory just doing 1 loco.

 

Now irrespective of factory size ( and I'm sure the maths guys amongst you can work out some figures taking into account production runs etc.) whatever is now being produced, whether in your owners factory, or 4/5 factories MUST be in production now.

 

Why? Because if they aren't on the boat in 28 days, they will not be here with enough time to de-van them, get them to the respective companies, and then out to stockists in time to really help Christmas sales, if at all.

 

My betting is that there will be a shortfall as there won't be enough production capacity to produce enough models in time (remember, when your sharing factories, something will have to 'give').

Cheers

Dave