Where are the Hornby models?

[Ian Hargrave]

I appreciate your feelings..81C..but I am prepared to tolerate the situation because I know that EVENTUALLY they will come up with the goods.....just hope it's within my lifespan,that's all.There have been many good----no,excellent models---from Hornby over the last decade. Surely,there's more to come. I don't give a button for where they are manufactured...or,frankly,for what difficulties the Chinese labour market or raw material supplies are facing. Just expedite in a sensible time scale the supplies of goodies promised...and please stop spinning fairy stories.We've had too many variations on a theme of 'A Slow Boat To ( From ) China !!! Regards,Ian.

[Dunsignalling]

I am beginning to think that Hornby have really shot themselves in the foot in the way they have handled the whole 'Design Clever' project.

 

They have not been clear enough about defining its scope and it appears that some elements of the 'Design Clever' rationalisation (for that is what it amounts to) are trickling through unpredictably into 'Main Range' models. This deters people from pre-ordering Hornby models because they have lost confidence in the specification being equal to what could previously be relied upon.

 

Hornby get pre-orders well below the levels they have been used to and cut back the size of production runs accordingly.

 

When the models get favourable reviews in the magazines about a month before release (which seems to be the growing trend) people rush to buy them but there aren't enough to satisfy demand. Some then pay through the nose to obtain one from an eBay speculator, some wait hopefully for another run (if and when one happens) and others decide to spend their cash on something else.

 

Whichever is the case, the outcome is bad for Hornby (smaller batches mean higher unit costs and not fulfilling demand risks 'their' revenue going elsewhere), the retailer (who loses turnover) and the consumer (many of whom pay over the odds for the model or do without and are potentially alienated from the Hornby brand).

 

Vicious circle or what?

 

John

[ThaneofFife]

The continued delay of class 40's, Earl and porthole stock is not what what I would call strength to strength.

 

MIke Wiltshire

er. nah....... we're not comparing apples with apples there so lets keep it real.

[Dunsignalling]

Classic manufacture monopoly situation. Price low to get all the business and eliminate the competition and then you can dictate price and delivery giving your customers no choice but to accept or go elsewhere with the confident knowledge there is no elsewhere.......until another nation decides they can offer an alternative. In my life time evrything stamped MADE IN JAPAN, slowly it became MADE IN HONG KONG, then MADE IN TAIWAN and now MADE IN CHINA. Since the 1950's manufacturing has gone through cycles like this (usually about 10 years). In my toy marketing days there exactly the same problems in Hong Kong (pre China rule) as there are now with China. Nothing changes much apart from geographic location. India is seen by many as the next major manufacturer and they have one major advantage - steel. China is the largest consumer of steel but does not control sufficient raw materials (iron ore) and is only now replacing expensive and outdated steel production (which has rseulted in quality issues methods). India is increasing its' share of worlds quality steel production and this could see the next manufacturing shift. My wife works in the oil industry and reports most of their equipment casting is now shifted to India.

 

I suggest the toy/hobby industry as a whole is on the verge of a new production centre shift.

 

Mike Wiltshire

Until the big move to China, there were a number of concerns located in Central/Eastern Europe who produced model railway items (predominantly for the US market).

 

Those factories will have closed or tranferred their attentions to other products but it did not happen so long ago that the required skills will have disappeared from the workforce.

 

The big problem is that we have become accustomed to obtaining high quality products at prices that are unsustainably low. Even if production is, once more, moved to a lower cost country; globalisation has increased the speed of the cycle and a further move may be necessary in as little as five years and perhaps three the one after that. Eventually, it may take longer to get new arrangements up and running than the producer nation can continue to turn out goods at the prices we want to pay.

 

The comments about French-outline models sum up the situation very well. Would you struggle to make UK models to sell at unrealistically low prices if the margins obtainable in other markets were 50% (or more) higher?

 

John

[Dunsignalling]

Thems were the days!

 

<g>

 

It's coming to something when the 'Good Old Days' were about 7 years ago...............

 

John

[The Stationmaster]

I am beginning to think that Hornby have really shot themselves in the foot in the way they have handled the whole 'Design Clever' project.

 

They have not been clear enough about defining its scope and it appears that some elements of the 'Design Clever' rationalisation (for that is what it amounts to) are trickling through unpredictably into 'Main Range' models. This deters people from pre-ordering Hornby models because they have lost confidence in the specification being equal to what could previously be relied upon.

 

Hornby get pre-orders well below the levels they have been used to and cut back the size of production runs accordingly.

 

(snipped)

Vicious circle or what?

 

John

Spot on.  I have ceased to pre-order anything 'new' from Hornby although I have ordered a 'Grange' and, of course, am still awaiting 8 coupled tanks; all were ordered in early January (last year!) While I am prepared to wait I am less tolerant of both design changes and poor assembly standards - both features of the GW 8 coupled tanks which give the impression of a change of horses midstream in development or the move from that stage to manufacture, they give the overall impression of someone deciding enough had been spent on development 'so let's put them out'.  A major marketing error because if they had been that bit better in various respects they would no doubt sell just as well with an extra £15-20 on the price;  was that down to Hornby or is that down to the cheapskate nature of a good chunk of the UK market influencing Hornby's decision process?

 

The GW Shunters' Truck is another example - after the excellent horsebox we get what is basically a good model with silly - wholly avoidable - mistakes such as the brake handle and the BR version coming in the wrong colour.  Is that down to poor spec and/or lack of quality control or was it due to a rush to beat Bachmann to the shops?  Whichever it was indicates to me that something went wrong somewhere along the line - lack of clarity perhaps or poor management control.

 

And this I'm afraid is the current impression coming out of Hornby, lack of clarity.  Meanwhile of course Bachmann are offering some clarity but they too seem to have troubles with either spec or quality control having produced a 'Modified Hall' and a 'Hall' both of which were wrong (but at least they were taken off the market once the faults were realised)!

[jwd]

I am beginning to think that Hornby have really shot themselves in the foot in the way they have handled the whole 'Design Clever' project.

 

They have not been clear enough about defining its scope and it appears that some elements of the 'Design Clever' rationalisation (for that is what it amounts to) are trickling through unpredictably into 'Main Range' models. This deters people from pre-ordering Hornby models because they have lost confidence in the specification being equal to what could previously be relied upon.

 

Hornby get pre-orders well below the levels they have been used to and cut back the size of production runs accordingly.

 

When the models get favourable reviews in the magazines about a month before release (which seems to be the growing trend) people rush to buy them but there aren't enough to satisfy demand. Some then pay through the nose to obtain one from an eBay speculator, some wait hopefully for another run (if and when one happens) and others decide to spend their cash on something else.

 

Whichever is the case, the outcome is bad for Hornby (smaller batches mean higher unit costs and not fulfilling demand risks 'their' revenue going elsewhere), the retailer (who loses turnover) and the consumer (many of whom pay over the odds for the model or do without and are potentially alienated from the Hornby brand).

 

Vicious circle or what?

 

John

 

 

Totaly agree, i am never pre-oredering another Hornby loco especially as 'Design Clever' = cut corners but pay same price, moulded handrails, back to Triang days it seems.....

[brushman47544]

[snipped]

 

The GW Shunters' Truck is another example - after the excellent horsebox we get what is basically a good model with silly - wholly avoidable - mistakes such as the brake handle and the BR version coming in the wrong colour.  Is that down to poor spec and/or lack of quality control or was it due to a rush to beat Bachmann to the shops?  Whichever it was indicates to me that something went wrong somewhere along the line - lack of clarity perhaps or poor management control.

 

And this I'm afraid is the current impression coming out of Hornby, lack of clarity.  Meanwhile of course Bachmann are offering some clarity but they too seem to have troubles with either spec or quality control having produced a 'Modified Hall' and a 'Hall' both of which were wrong (but at least they were taken off the market once the faults were realised)!

 

Bachmann certainly do have problems too, not just Hornby - other than the Halls, the latest Deltic in two-tone green should have been pristine but arrived weathered. We'll never be told, understandably, but I've often wondered how many if any people Bachmann, Hornby and others have to visit the factories on a regular basis to check models as they come off the production line before its too late to correct mistakes.

[Ian Hargrave]

And that,Andrew,is the million-dollar question.......and one,of course,that we won't know the answer to.

[andyman7]

Is that another way of saying they are trying to get rid of stuff they haven't been able to sell previously?  Plus of course Hornby will have quite a quantity of stock returned from Modelzone which they will ideally hope to get shot of as quickly as possible and turn a cost on their balance sheet into positive cash flow.

 

I don't think it that they are intentionally favouring this strategy, but I think it is having that effect. Also, the items that are selling out seem to be the more popular subjects where normally the constant appearance of new number/livery variations mean that at least some of the past issues might linger for a bit. I'm thinking of thinks like the Clan, the Britannia, the City/Duchess, the King the WC/BoB etc etc

.  

[The Stationmaster]

I don't think it that they are intentionally favouring this strategy, but I think it is having that effect. Also, the items that are selling out seem to be the more popular subjects where normally the constant appearance of new number/livery variations mean that at least some of the past issues might linger for a bit. I'm thinking of thinks like the Clan, the Britannia, the City/Duchess, the King the WC/BoB etc etc

.  

Here's an example of the previously unsold from Hornby's website today - looks as if it has been on display (boxed) somewhere (Modelzone?) -

 

http://www.Hornby.com/shop/sale/coaches/r4407-br-hawksworth-composite-coach-pre-1956/

[andyman7]

Totaly agree, i am never pre-oredering another Hornby loco especially as 'Design Clever' = cut corners but pay same price, moulded handrails, back to Triang days it seems.....

Hmmm, by all means as a consumer exercise your prerogative as to whether you buy or not, but I detect a slight exaggeration - Design Clever still retains a lot of detail in comparison even to 1990s models; they are cheaper (2-BIL list price £125 versus £150+ for Brighton Belle) - and, much as I have a soft spot for the old Triang range, you really can't compare the current crop to those days (anyone remember the L1 being finished in LMS black and called a 2P?).   

[Coach bogie]

Here's an example of the previously unsold from Hornby's website today - looks as if it has been on display (boxed) somewhere (Modelzone?) -

 

http://www.Hornby.com/shop/sale/coaches/r4407-br-hawksworth-composite-coach-pre-1956/

I wonder if Rails has done a deal with Hornby to clear MZ stock?

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/Hornby-set-of-5-br-crimson-cream-hawksworth-pre-1956-coaches-hawksworth-pack-1-JJJA25550.aspx

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/Hornby-set-of-6-br-maroon-hawksworth-post-1956-coaches-hawksworth-pack-2-JJJA25551.aspx

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Ian Hargrave]

Here's an example of the previously unsold from Hornby's website today - looks as if it has been on display (boxed) somewhere (Modelzone?) -

 

http://www.Hornby.com/shop/sale/coaches/r4407-br-hawksworth-composite-coach-pre-1956/

There's a sudden cascade of these onto the market.First Kernow and now Rails are offering 'deals' on them....Kernow being the more attractive option.Late of Modelzone,at a guess,in common with 2-Bils and 42/72XX. I wonder what else will be flushed out of the closet in due course......watch this space.

[Mike70]

Bachmann certainly do have problems too, not just Hornby - other than the Halls, the latest Deltic in two-tone green should have been pristine but arrived weathered. We'll never be told, understandably, but I've often wondered how many if any people Bachmann, Hornby and others have to visit the factories on a regular basis to check models as they come off the production line before its too late to correct mistakes.

 

I decided not to bother with the last Deltic, because I wanted a pristine version.

Wonder how many others changed their minds?

 

I wonder if Rails has done a deal with Hornby to clear MZ stock?

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/Hornby-set-of-5-br-crimson-cream-hawksworth-pre-1956-coaches-hawksworth-pack-1-JJJA25550.aspx

 

https://railsofsheffield.com/Hornby-set-of-6-br-maroon-hawksworth-post-1956-coaches-hawksworth-pack-2-JJJA25551.aspx

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

Rails were also flogging off the Coronation Scot train packs.

 

Is it a sign that Hornby are a bit cash strapped and need to generate revenue anyway they can?

[6959]

With next year being 2014 it will be fifty years since the end of the Hornby Dublo range. Maybe we should buy what is currently available from Hornby today just in case there is another radical step change around the corner. The Hornby brand should go on for many more years but it could be that the high standard set by models like the retooled Castles will be a thing of the past and we will go back ten years with regard to detail.

 

 

The 42xx tanks and other promised models in the 2013 catalogue could become the equivalent of the Hornby Dublo 2245 electric loco or the Hornby Dublo 4654 track cleaning wagon.

 

[Ian Hargrave]

Rails themselves seem to be frantically attempting to generate sales by a frenetic e-bay pitch ATM. Some astronomically inflated 'Buy It Now...Or Best Offer' prices being asked.The sheer volume of it on sale is quite something.

[birdseyecircus]

We have had today a Smyths toy catalogue posted through the door. A glance through it reveals no Hornby or Scalextric listed despite Smyths being a big competitor to Toys r us. In the run up to xmas I would have thought that a listing in a major toy suppliers brochure would be a must.

 

Paul

[Mike70]

We have had today a Smyths toy catalogue posted through the door. A glance through it reveals no Hornby or Scalextric listed despite Smyths being a big competitor to Toys r us. In the run up to xmas I would have thought that a listing in a major toy suppliers brochure would be a must.

 

Paul

I don't think Smyths have ever sold Hornby products.

 

Earlier this year I visited Smyths looking to buy Hornby products and they told me they don't sell them.

[Ozexpatriate]

 Maybe we should buy what is currently available from Hornby today just in case there is another radical step change around the corner. The Hornby brand should go on for many more years but it could be that the high standard set by models like the retooled Castles will be a thing of the past and we will go back ten years with regard to detail.

(Lovely pictures there by the way.)

 

If you want something from Hornby do buy it now.

 

One thing is certain, the legacy of Frank Hornby will live on in the Hornby brand, no matter who owns it. That property still remains one of Hornby PLC's greatest assets.

 

It's too soon for long-range prognosticating about design clever. It continues to be my opinion that 'design clever' was an artifact of Hornby having to change factories to a manufacturing plant that did not have the same equipment, skills and experience in building models of the quality of the retooled Thompson L1.

 

While the Castle tooling was excellent the execution was poor. There were problems with the tools breaking and lots of quality control issues. It's not their high-water mark, I think that honour goes to the Thompson L1.

 

Assuming Hornby re-establishes manufacturing excellence with their new suppliers, I hope this will eventually translate into a a move away from 'design clever' and a return to highly detailed models. We should also expect to pay a bit more for this level of detail.

 

We are paying more anyway (as is also evident in Bachmann prices). The magic £100 barrier is well and truly shattered.

[Ian Hargrave]

High water mark ? Reached December last with O1 andB17......and before that with B1in Dec.2012.

[robmcg]

I agree the execution of the Castle was patchy, and I don't quite get the slidebar . I think all models with 4-pin/plug connectors will be less desirable in the future than others.

 

For me the top Hornby models in no particular order are:

A3,

N15,

T9,

Rebuilt Light Pacific,

Merchant Navy, (because it was the first, where similarly Bachmann's WD also has charm)

B17.

 

 

Also very nice,

O1, L1, M7, B1, Grange, unrebuilt Bulleid Light Pacific, 75000 4MT, Black 5, and others...   we have been SPOILT. 

 

 

[Fenman]

For me the top Hornby models in no particular order are:

A3,

N15,

T9,

Rebuilt Light Pacific,

Merchant Navy, (because it was the first, where similarly Bachmann's WD also has charm)

B17.

 

Also very nice,

O1, L1, M7, B1, Grange, unrebuilt Bulleid Light Pacific, 75000 4MT, Black 5, and others...

I'd add the Schools, the A4, and the Gresley "suburban" stock. And the Maunsells. And I'm fond of the Q1, too, although it suffers from an alarming propensity for bits to drop off.

 

Paul

[sandwich station]

(anyone remember the L1 being finished in LMS black and called a 2P?).   

 

Yes, I still have one

[robmcg]

I'd add the Schools, the A4, and the Gresley "suburban" stock. And the Maunsells. And I'm fond of the Q1, too, although it suffers from an alarming propensity for bits to drop off.

 

Paul

 

Oh yes, I forgot the Schools, which like the T9 requires care to attach the 4-pin without drama, and also the Fowler and Stanier 4MT tanks are good...  the Bachmann Fairburn being equally good.    But we have been spoiled.  The unsung 28XX is lovely,  oh, I forgot the outstanding Patriot/Scot engines!

 

I look forward to the P2 and DoG  and various weathering/photographic excursions like this one just begun on a Hornby A3.. currently I am buying all my Hornby models at auction, often second hand, and there is no shortage of choice.