Layout design case study

[colin penfold]

OT I know but we've have a job because we played yesterday.

 

I have to admit I thought that painting was a 14xx but on further inspection its actually some Southern tank thingy.

 

http://www.military-art.com/mall/more.php?ProdID=16314

 

Very nice though.

 

That's the painting, it looks like the ideal use for a curve. It's an H class 0-4-4t (other SR thingys are available)

 

 I thought you were a Spurs fan - probably just insulted you LOL

Edited September 22, 2013 by colin penfold

[Beacon]

This is already turning out to be an interesting thread and I've just placed my order for the book. I'm looking forward to how you develop the Southampton part as I'm always flitting back and forth with grand ideas of modelling the terminus and part of the docks. Have you got/read Southern Rails around Southampton by Ian Drummond - a very good book.

[colin penfold]

Have you got/read Southern Rails around Southampton by Ian Drummond - a very good book.

 

I have indeed, and also an older book called "Southampton's Railways." If you are interested in Terminus  I suggest you track down a copy of British Railways Illustrated Vol 2 No.6: Aug/Sept 1993

 

Thanks

[Beacon]

Yes I have Southampton's Railways too - took me a while to track one down. Haven't seen the other reference though so will look out for that thank you!

 

(null)

[Zero Gravitas]

Hi Colin,

 

I'm very much enjoying this thread - thank you for sharing.

 

However, just to be slightly mischievous for a moment:  I've always fancied doing a model of Burghclere myself, also making the assumption that the lime kilns stayed open; but making a further assumption that the proposed light railway from burgclere to Kingsclere had been built in 1902, and had been amalgamated into the DNSR...

 

I just thought I'd mention it as it might be an opportuntity to (1) consider the "fictional" parts of Mr. Rice's books as well, and (2) had the Colonel been involved with the original light railway you could deal with that pipe dream as well

 

Please keep up the good work!

 

Best Regards,

 

ZG

[Zero Gravitas]

The Stationmaster, on 20 Sept 2013 - 13:27, said:

For your information Colin a new book on the DN&S will be appearing from Kevin Robertson in, he hopes, January (should be available for the Southampton show he has said).

'The Dicot, Newbury & SouthamptonRailway - an historic review - 1882 - 1966'  approx 200 pages, ISBN 978-1-906419-83-7, £30.  Kevin told me at Swindon that it is all new material which has come to light since earlier books were published.

 

Thank you for this information - I hope you don't think I'm being pedantic, as any DNS material is welcome; but I've just pre-ordered my copy on Amazon, and they are showing the title for this ISBN as "The Didcot Newbury and Southampton Railway - the Final Years: 1948 - 1966".

 

This suits me perfectly - but others may be more interested in the earlier period.

 

Best Regards,

 

ZG

[raymw]

Not sure if it is so, but Amazon often make mistakes in book titles - you need to see an image of the book cover/jacket, to be sure - and hope that is the one they send you.  Erven if you tell them, they don't seem to change.

 

Best wishes,

 

Ray

[colin penfold]

Hi Colin,

 

I'm very much enjoying this thread - thank you for sharing.

 

However, just to be slightly mischievous for a moment:  I've always fancied doing a model of Burghclere myself, also making the assumption that the lime kilns stayed open; but making a further assumption that the proposed light railway from burgclere to Kingsclere had been built in 1902, and had been amalgamated into the DNSR...

 

I just thought I'd mention it as it might be an opportuntity to (1) consider the "fictional" parts of Mr. Rice's books as well, and (2) had the Colonel been involved with the original light railway you could deal with that pipe dream as well

 

Please keep up the good work!

 

Best Regards,

 

ZG

 

Funny you should say that ZG! I have considered that in the past and even started a model of the Colonel's station at Kingsclere when I didn't have space to try anything prototypical. The layout was based on a Rice design -  Llanstr Mawr. One day, you never know.........

 

But, on the other hand if you do your Burghclere your way, and I do mine my way, they will both be individual!

[Darwinian]

While you are still researching train movements etc. you might like to read "Firing Days", "Footplate Days" and "Nostalgic days" by Harrold Gasson (OPC publishers). He was a fireman at Didcot and has quite a few stories of firing over the DNS as it was one of his favourite lines.

 

They were published back in the late 70s to early 80s.

 

I've just been re-reading them. Always make me smile  . Especially the story about getting the guard and porter out of the van with the Billy goat in . 

[The Stationmaster]

Thank you for this information - I hope you don't think I'm being pedantic, as any DNS material is welcome; but I've just pre-ordered my copy on Amazon, and they are showing the title for this ISBN as "The Didcot Newbury and Southampton Railway - the Final Years: 1948 - 1966".

 

This suits me perfectly - but others may be more interested in the earlier period.

 

Best Regards,

 

ZG

I suspect Amazon have got it wrong.  I took the title partly from the way Kevin described it to me at Swindon but more particularly from his catalogue - which includes an illustration of the dust jacket.  (but he might have changed the title since his catalogue was printed as the catalogue blurb refers to the final years.  Ah well all going to plan we'll know the answer in January!

[colin penfold]

I suspect Amazon have got it wrong.  I took the title partly from the way Kevin described it to me at Swindon but more particularly from his catalogue - which includes an illustration of the dust jacket.  (but he might have changed the title since his catalogue was printed as the catalogue blurb refers to the final years.  Ah well all going to plan we'll know the answer in January!

 

Hi Mike, they have a mock up of the dust jacket which clearly shows the title as ZG suggests  http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1906419833/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

[Craigw]

Hi Mike, they have a mock up of the dust jacket which clearly shows the title as ZG suggests  http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/1906419833/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

Colin,

 

Kevin Robertson also has a mock up of the cover in his latest cattle dog...

 

http://www.noodlebooks.co.uk/catalogue2013-14/index.html#2

 

 

As you can see, the title differs slightly. From reading his site, the book appears to concentrate on 1948-1966 but does provide new information from the earlier periods. As a fellow D. N & S tragic (albeit planning to model the mid 1920s), I look forward to seeing any book on the line.

 

Very interesting to see this process underway. I am planning to model a might have been in the form of Highclere, but with a lime works there. Basically this is because I like the simpler arrangement of Highclere a bit more.

 

Anyway, keep going!

 

regards,

 

Craig w

[colin penfold]

Thanks Craig, that's very interesting. Seems the man himself hasn't quite finalised the title. I have pre ordered via amazon., don't mind what he calls it, I want a copy!

[colin penfold]

Definitely not a star, just a disciple mentioned in dispatches.

 

You could try emailing

 

president@scalefour.org

 

Iain is very helpful and supportive and I am sure would be interested to see how people are responding to his writing.

 

Ian

 

 

I contacted Iain and he has kindly responded that he is perfectly happy for me to quote his work in this way, Thanks for the contact info Ian. Next instalment at the weekend!

[colin penfold]

Fresh from a very good day out at Barrow Hill yesterday. One purchase made was a 1959 1 inch OS map showing the D&S - not really helpful in layout planning terms because the scale does not provide enough detail. It's just nice to have the route shown on an original map.

 

Chapter 7 then folks - Operational Design

 

In this chapter detailed discussion is made of issues involving exhibiting layouts, different control systems, fiddle yards and couplings. I found a lot of this chapter had come into my thinking earlier and there was some duplication. To be honest, some of the advanced stuff was beyond my aspirations.

 

To summarise my thinking on operation I plan a combination of U-shaped terminus to fiddle yard layout which will be able to be operated on its own, and an oval layout for continuous running at a higher level where I can just watch the trains go by. The hard bit, if it can be achieved, will be linking the two levels via some sort of helix/spiral. I am aware of all the discussions elsewhere about the difficulties of gradient and curve and will just have to experiment. Given that the two levels will work independently I shall just have to live with it if I can't make the link work. If I can, even for some of my locos, then I plan to operate Fiddle yard - Burghclere - Shawford - Southampton and Fiddle yard - Burghclere - Shawford - Fiddle yard (representing trains which joined the rest of the network without serving Southampton. I will pass trains at Burghclere as per prototype practice. Trains destined for Southampton docks will be terminated in Southampton Station and transferred by docks shunter to the docks - off-scene (back in the fiddle yard!)

 

The layout will never be exhibited and will be operated from a central operating well

 

Fiddle Yard design will be important as it will also form the permanent home storage for my operational stock. I also need to be able to reverse trains and change locos ( I have two locos per train approximately) without handling stock.  The design will therefore be a large pivoting traverser with about 10 roads per deck (I may need to construct 2 or 3) which will be made dust tight and secure with a lid when not in operation. It will slide back and forth for alignment (on heavy duty drawer runners) but rotate for reversing trains without handling. Its length will be limited by not only the length of the room but the width available for it to rotate through. I think it's going to be around 5 feet, which will be good for my requirements. Longer freights would be great, but probably beyond the haulage capacity of my locos on tight curves on gradients. If I have more length than that I will make a separate area to handle locos which will not pivot with the main section but allow for loco changes without handling them. If at all possible that will be made scenic in the form of a loco shed.

 

The control positions will be A at Southampton ( 1 controller ) with ability to control sections to Burghclere and direct to the FY and B at the fiddle yard (2 controllers) with the ability to drive the top level circuit and from FY to Burghclere. Bearing in mind the size of my operating well, it's a moot point as I shall be able to reach both from the same seat! The signalling lever frame for Burghclere (wire in tube mechanical) will be in front of it, above where the Southampton panel is. The remaining points on the layout will be electrically operated and from mimic diagrams at the Southampton panel.

 

Just to re-state I hope to use 3 link couplings but most of my stock is unconverted with its original tension locks in place. I will conduct lots of experimental running with the stock I have converted, before deciding whether 3 link is viable.

 

Next - Visual Design and Presentation.

[Barnaby]

Well if you never intend to exhibit it but we are all coming along on its journey into conception I think you will just have to have some OPEN DAYS with cucumber sandwiches and lashing of ginger beer for all.

 

Interesting as each stage is opened, explained and conceived.

 

Regards

[Flymo748]

I contacted Iain and he has kindly responded that he is perfectly happy for me to quote his work in this way, Thanks for the contact info Ian. Next instalment at the weekend!

 

Hi Colin,

 

I also had a chat with Iain yesterday at Scaleforum. 

 

Not only did he repeat that he was very happy for you to continue your "companion" to his book on RMWeb, he was particularly pleased that you found it so useful and practical.  He was genuinely chuffed that it was appreciated so much.

 

Despite being one of the seminal writers on finescale modelling over the years - perhaps, given the number of volumes produced, THE seminal writer on finescale - he is still somewhat modest about the impact that his various writings on locomotives, kits and layout has had.

 

Cheers

Paul Willis

Scalefour Society Deputy Chairman

[colin penfold]

Well if you never intend to exhibit it but we are all coming along on its journey into conception I think you will just have to have some OPEN DAYS with cucumber sandwiches and lashing of ginger beer for all.

 

Interesting as each stage is opened, explained and conceived.

 

Regards

 

I will need to issue timed tickets into the cellar as the floor space of the operating well is going to be about 6'x2' 

[Peter Kazmierczak]

Of course the GW also had their eyes on Bournemouth at one time. A terminus by the sea with Castles and Halls waiting to leave for Paddington, Birmingham and Birkenhead would be interesting.....

[11B]

Hi Colin,

 

I have been following this with interest, to the point I ordered the book at the local library, and picked it up this morning, and looking forward to reading it...

 

I can't wait for the next instalment

 

Kind regards

 

Ian

[colin penfold]

Thanks Ian, I was away this weekend. Hope to have the next instalment soon (weekend at the latest)

[DLT]

Only just come across this fascinating thread Colin, but I will be following from now on.

All the best, Dave.

[colin penfold]

Have had some success preparing the steps down to the cellar today, so with the glow of DIY success and a nice beef and Guinness stew, I have sat down to cover Iain's eighth chapter which covers Visual Design and Presentation

 

The chapter covers stuff like fields of vision and how we look at things, compression composition, view blocks, perspective and backscenes.

 

I have decided to use photographic backscenes for Burghclere and Shawford based on actual photos taken during my site visits earlier this year. Southampton will be designed so that the backscene is only sky.

I would like to cover the other issues in context of my three scenes

 

Southampton

 

The track layout for my "what might have been" is based on Southampton Terminus because it was the kind of station, on the kind of site, with the kind of traffic that the DNS would have liked to achieve. My approach to compressing the track plan of Terminus to reflect a slightly smaller station, but keeping the operational integrity, was to scan and print copies of the track plan on A3 and take a highlight pen to it wo highlight the essential "keeps"

 

 

The things to point out are that I wanted to retain the suggestion of the docks sidings, but to move most of them off-scene so that trains will be received, train loco removed and taken into the docks (off scene) by shunters. I also liked the small goods yard but feel it would still work with a couple less sidings. I want to keep the shed, but the jury is out as to whether it will fit in the space I have. I also want to fit in a branch which is operationally separate from the rest of the layout, and operated using an automated shuttle. This will keep some movement going in addition to what I can achieve as a one man operator. An overbridge will be used to block the view of where this branch crosses the rest of the trackwork on an unrealistic diamond crossing to keep the automated traffic separate. (this will become clearer when I share the track plan with you)

 

City walls and buildings will be used to frame and contextualise the layout as well as blocking the view where trains enter and leave the scenic sections. Buildings I saw and photographed on my site visit will be used - Bargate Tower, Catchcold and Arundel Towers and the rather attractive Masonic Hall. I also fancy the now long gone Arundel Pub, and may include the fire station I spotted marked on the map of Bargate Street. I also fancy using this prototype from Plymouth Barbican

 

 

 

Burghclere

 

The curves I need to introduce at either end are not prototypical, so they need disguising. I'm lucky though because at the Newbury end the line goes straight under a road bridge at the end of the platform and into quite a deep cutting, so the curve will go under the scenery which will contain a representation of the tree-lined cutting going straight on. At the other end the land rises again with a line of workers cottages between my viewing position and the line. again the suggestion will be the line is going straight on but it will secretly curve under the cottages.I will need to compress the length of the station but I will be able to retain platforms long enough for the standard 3 coach locals and should be able to fit the full pointwork and all the main buildings.  As regards the visual balance of buildings on the layout, Iain suggests that an arrangement where all the buildings are clumped in one area will look wrong and that you need to balance the bulk of buildings across the area. I am lucky that the station, duly compressed, will do this naturally. At one end there will be the station buildings, in the centre the goods shed and 'box, and at the other end the workers cottages.

 

Shawford Viaduct

 

This will need to be massively compressed. I reckon to do about 4 to 5 feet of viaduct and I will simply build the relevant number of arches (luckily they are mostly identical) to scale. I will use big trees and rising ground to act as view blockers. Iain and I think (and experimentation on site proves) hat the human eye is not like that of a fish. We do not take in wide swathes of view without moving the head sideways (pan mode) or back and forth (zoom mode) As such I think it can be made to look right. The viaduct sits in a large meadow with water courses in it and there will need to be some foreground interest. I photographed a private road with a bridge spanning a water course, and a cattle pond which along with a stretch of river should do nicely. Experimentation will be needed to get the balance between representing the sparseness of the location with some foreground interest. Once the viaduct is in place I shall mess about with bits of cardboard old sponges on sticks and all manner of other nonsense to visualise the finished effect.

 

Presentation

 

Each of the three main areas will be presented as a layout in its own right with a full frame including wings either side and a lighting pelmet combining to frame all 4 sides of the layout. These will be painted. I think that I agree with Iain's view that matt black is wrong for the job, especially in a small cellar room where I think it might cause a claustrophobic effect. Iain suggests satin paint in a colour that blends with the layout (he mentions sage green) and I will experiment with lighter shades to create a feeling of space in the room. The balance is between making an effective frame that leads the eye into the modelled area and blanks off the harsh reality beyond, and the impact of all that timber on the ambience of the room. Wish me luck!!

 

So, chapter 9 is the bit you have all been waiting for - the track plans. You will be pleased to know I have been playing with these, so will have something to show you. I think I will do it one scene per post (Southampton, Burghclere and Shawford) followed by a post on the linking together of these scenes. Hopefully you will stay tuned for that.

 

Thanks to those of you who are staying with me on my voyage.

 

 

[Mikkel]

Hi Colin. What an excellent project and thread. The DNSR is one of my favourite lines, and I've always hoped to do the might-have-been terminus too some day (or maybe a connection to the docks!). This will be great to follow, thanks for your effort in writing it all up.

[colin penfold]

Cheers Mikkel. I liked the whole concept and history of the DNS but doing Southampton will be the icing on the cake because it gives the play value the smaller stations don't.