Hornby GWR Hall

[Hilux5972]

Does anyone else notice how the lining colour changes on Adderley Hall in the Hornby preview picture?

 

http://www.Hornby.com/railroad-gwr-4-6-0-adderley-hall-4900-hall-class.html

 

 

Thats because the Cabside and tender lining is simplified, as with Olton Hall. The boiler has orange-black-orange lining but the cabside is only orange-  -orange.

[RonnieS]

. Yes,I know the Mark 1's can be cantankerous beasts 

Is this as you consider them too heavy or is it another issue?

[toboldlygo]

A good point.However,the end result is not quite as straightforward as I had hoped.It is undoubtedly a smooth performer but in the recent experiences I have had in initial testing,it does not like Bachmann Mark 1 stock.I am hoping that additional weight can be added to the chassis somewhere in order to improve haulage capacity. Yes,I know the Mark 1's can be cantankerous beasts but I have healthy stocks of them and do not intend purchasing any of the Hornby variety which is undoubtedly a lighter and smoother runner.Thus,unless an improvement in adhesion can be achieved,I am restricted to other stock such as Bachmann Colletts and Hornby Hawksworths....no big deal,I will readily acknowledge.There are,of course,inter-regional opportuniies with Maunsells,Staniers and Gresleys.

It is worth repeating that I believe a much more authentic appearance can be achieved with subtle weathering to darken it and eradicate a "plasticky"finish,which I believe it has.

 

Bachmann MK1's, if they aren't derailing or decoupling themselves they're fine!!

[Ian Hargrave]

Is this as you consider them too heavy or is it another issue?

Why would it be another issue ? They are what they are and my opinion on their weight is immaterial.The Bachmann Mark1 is a superb r-t-r representation of the prototype but a prototypical 8 coach rake can be a haulage challenge for some r-t-r models currently available.Adding additional weight to the loco chassis to improve adhesion may help. Additional attention can be paid to the free running of the bogies and wheelsets of the coaches.

[coachmann]

Why would it be another issue ? They are what they are and my opinion on their weight is immaterial.The Bachmann Mark1 is a superb r-t-r representation of the prototype but a prototypical 8 coach rake can be a haulage challenge for some r-t-r models currently available.Adding additional weight to the loco chassis to improve adhesion may help. Additional attention can be paid to the free running of the bogies and wheelsets of the coaches.

Ian, Hornby coach wheels have a sharper angle on their pinpoint axle and run far better in brass pinpoint bearings than Bachmann coach wheels. Replacing a Bachman Mk.I coach's wheels with Hornby wheels might provide the answer, though I should add I haven't tried it. Maybe I should seeing as I have two Mk.I's.

[RonnieS]

I have not any Bachmann Mk1s (my coaches are Comet; hence the question) I just wondered if the weights in the coach could be removed. I go for about 110 to 120g per coach whereas (I believe) Bachy Standards are about 160g

[Coach bogie]

Apart from new plates the Hall is now retro 1934 and ready for the road. With all the concerns about running finish etc, Bath Road has sent a footplate inspector out to to make sure. There is room for more weight over the front driver which I may add if it begins to struggle over the hills on my trainset.

 

 

 

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Ozexpatriate]

Thats because the Cabside and tender lining is simplified, as with Olton Hall. The boiler has orange-black-orange lining but the cabside is only orange-  -orange.

Plus there is no lining on the cylinder casing and there is no route availability mark.

[County of Yorkshire]

Apart from new plates the Hall is now retro 1934 and ready for the road. With all the concerns about running finish etc, Bath Road has sent a footplate inspector out to to make sure. There is room for more weight over the front driver which I may add if it begins to struggle over the hills on my trainset.

hall 1.jpg

 

Hall 3.jpg

 

hall 2.jpg

 

Hall 4.JPG

 

Mike Wiltshire

 

You don't fancy doing a step-by-step masters guide to upgrading the Railroad Hall, do you Mike?

 

 

Cheers,

 

CoY

[Market65]

Hi. I've got to say that the Hall reworking has made it look, perhaps, something more like it should have if it had not been created in the Design -Clever era. Excellent work.

 

All the best,

 

Market65.

[Hilux5972]

I forgot about the cylinder lining. As for the route indicator, she does not carry one in the red livery

[coachmann]

Anyone else got a hall that looks like the body shell is cracked ?

Admittedly they can be a pain when so visible, but such mould joint marks have been apparent for years on plastic injection and cast models. To highlight this on a model with moulded pipework, smokebox dart and grab handles seems a bit over the top....

[Ian Hargrave]

Anyone else got a hall that looks like the body shell is cracked ?image.jpg

Yes but not as extensive as that.

[dibber25]

Surely, as Coachman says, it's a mould-parting line, not a crack? The plastic moulding hasn't been fettled well enough before spraying.

[Bulwell Hall]

Anyone else got a hall that looks like the body shell is cracked ?image.jpg

 

As well as highlighting a very bad mould joint line this photo illustrates just why this model is such a major disapointment.  Look at the front of the cab - a 49xx 'Hall' had the front of the cab recessed with the side sheets overlapping - there was also a lot of rivet detail on the cab front all of which is missing!  Whilst the moulded pipe work - outside steam pipes, ejector pipe work, etc. is a big disapointment with some determination it could be overcome - I really don't know how the shortcomings of the cab front could be rectified.

 

Please stop saying that the model is OK for the price and it looks OK from a distance - the Hornby 'Hall' is a major disapointment and a real step backwards in quality.  It is such a shame that such a useful locomotive got caught up in the 'design clever' b......s as if it had been to the quality of the earler 'Grange' and the 'Castle' I for one would have had several - as it is I will not be having even one.  And the 'Star' is only marginally better!

[Ian Hargrave]

Ah well,as is said.."One man's meat is another man's etc.,etc," or put another way..."Yer pays yer money and yer takes yer choice "and all are entitled to reasonably expressed opinion are they not ?

[Legend]

Surely, as Coachman says, it's a mould-parting line, not a crack? The plastic moulding hasn't been fettled well enough before spraying.

 

It may well be just a mould parting line, but it looks like a crack! What are you supposed to do , rub it down, spoiling the paintwork? I wouldn't have expected this to get past Quality Control. I think that is unacceptable and would send it back.

[brushman47544]

I wonder what the reactions would have been like if the Hall had been introduced as a Railroad model only, in a GW or BR green livery instead of as Olton Hall in red? As a Railroad model at the Railroad price it's pretty good.

[Coach bogie]

It may well be just a mould parting line, but it looks like a crack! What are you supposed to do , rub it down, spoiling the paintwork?

 That was my solution. It took minutes to sort -  see #608 above

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Coach bogie]

You don't fancy doing a step-by-step masters guide to upgrading the Railroad Hall, do you Mike?

 

 

Cheers,

 

CoY

 

1. Removed loco body – bogie needs removing first
2. Using a knife slice off cab side handrail. I remove the outer ends only at first. I then drill the holes for the replacement wire. This way you know the holes are in the right place. After drilling remove the remaining moulded rail.
3. Clean up with sand paper and remove unwanted lining at the same time
4. Front top lamp bracket. For pre 1935 this needs to be on top of the smoke box. Just cut away with a knife. Drill a hole on top of the smokebox and superglue in strip of brass/flattened wire to represent new lamp bracket
5. Smokebox number plate. Carefully remove with rat tailed files or similar until almost removed. You will damage top hinge but not an issue. Finish off with coarse, then fine sandpaper.
6. Top hinge. Using micro strip cut a suitable replacement and using solvent, glue into place. When dry sand down to match bottom hinge.
7. Now you have almost finished messing with the body, using 0.45 handrail wire, fold and superglue cab side hand rails into place.
8. Mould line. Sand down between boiler bands ON BOILER ONLY, taking care not to scrape any of the lining.
9. Tender. Remove body by loosening the two screws.
10. As loco remove rear handrails, cut away ends only at first, drill holes than remove remaining moulding.
11. Make top handrails and glue in place
12. Make vertical handrails from knobs and wire and glue in place. Useful is Hornby part S9818 which is a strip of hand rail wire with 13 knobs. Enough for 3 tenders Available on eBay. Link below.
13. Remove BR logo from tender. I soften with brake fluid then lightly sand with fine paper as decal breaks up.
14. Painting. I thin down precision green and lightly paint over the loco/tender between the lining. You do not have to go that close to the lining as the two are quite close. The handrails and cab side may need several coats to cover over the sanding and metalwork.
15. Paint smokebox black. Also cylinders to cover BR lining.
16. Paint regulator and reverser red. So much for painted interior. I have never seen a chrome regulator arm. Also paint pipework copper if you wish.
17. Replace lining on cab side using PC/HMRS sheet 8P (I get mine from Peter’s Spare’s), line firebox bands and new lining to cylinders. You can also line the back of the tender for GWR days. Great crest Western and buffer beam numbers from sheet 7P.
18. Paint tender axlebox covers brass. Also cab window. Latter is tricky as there is very little frame and I could not get the glazing out but a very small brush with few hairs does the job.
19. All over varnish with thinned down semi matt.
20. Add crew, lamps, and eventually new names/numbers from 247 when I see Gary at York.
21. There is room for some extra weight above the front driver. Add if required.
22. Add real coal (mine came from a lump in City of Truro’s tender in 1985 and I am still using it)
23. Put loco and tender body back on the frames
24. Put on your layout and enjoy your work with the knowledge ‘you did that’ and is unique to you rather than the thousands of others run straight from the box.

 

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Hornby-TRIANG-SPARES-ONE-S9818-HANDRAIL-WITH-13-FIXING-KNOBS-/141578188624?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item20f6b7b750

 

I think that is everything

 

Mike Wiltshire

[Neal Ball]

I wonder if its also worth adding pickups from the tender? I think I'm right in saying pick-up is from the drivers only....

[Hilux5972]

There are already pickups in the tender.

[Guest 7007GreatWestern]

I'd like to compliment Mike of his detailing work and partial repaint on "Rood Ashton". They really have brought the model a life! Thanks for sharing the photos and list of jobs.

 

On Monday I went over to Hattons to pick up one each of "Olton Hall" and "Rood Ashton Hall". One of the benefits of going to the dealer in person is that you get to run the loco on a test track before buying. I've always Hattons particularly helpful in that regard. "Olton Hall" ran well but "Rood Ashton's" was only able to turn its wheels a fraction of a turn in either direction! I'm no expert but I guess the quartering was miles out. The model had another peculiarity. The cabside number plates read "4965" but the nameplate read "Adderley Hall". I think someone in China was having a 'bad day at the office' when my "Rood Ashton" was assembled!

 

I've now run "Olton Hall" for a generous run-in period on a DCC concepts rolling road and short test track. Its performance is certainly better than the Bachmann equivalent. However, it is not as good at very low speed as either of my two Hornby 'Granges', though they do run like Swiss watches!

 

At less than £70 "Olton Hall" offers a more refined model than most if not all the other Railroad locos at a very competitive price. My own feeling is that "Rood Ashton" is priced on the high side especially when compared to the exquisite new K1. It bristles with separately fitted details and has the added complexity of Walschaerts valve gear yet can be bought new for just a tenner more if you shop around.

 

The quality of the K1 gives hope that Hornby are once again producing outstanding models. I see that the new tranche of eight-coupled tanks show improvements over the first batch. There are improvements to the body and chassis (e.g. Guard Irons). The Hornby website is also claiming they will be fitted with 5-pole motors. I hope Hornby sustain these improvements for the "Premium Range" models and revisit the Hall/Star/P2/DoG at some point in the future as they have with the 42xx/52xx/72xx.

 

 

 

 

 

[leavesontheline]

I see that Hornby are now showing Adderley Hall in stock (also just arrived at my local shop!). At the typical discounted RRP that Olton Hall has been available I think I'll be snapping one up. I now have Olton Hall and Rood Ashton Hall and to me the Railroad version offers much better value for money. I was disappointed with Rood Ashton Hall on its own and now I also have Olton Hall sat next to it, it is even more disappointing from a value for money perspective! The differences have already been discussed at length in this thread and already some brave folk are managing to make big improvements to both models - I'm not sure I am confident enough to start rubbing away at the boiler mold parting lines on my Rood Ashton Hall yet, which incidentally are quite a bit worse than Olton Hall where they are barely visible even close up! On Rood Ashton Hall you can't actually see them when the loco is moving and at 'normal viewing distance'.

 

For me most of the 'design clever' compromises are acceptable for a sub £80 model, i.e. non-sprung buffers (at least they are metal), molded smokebox darts, in-filled steam pipes, undecorated cab, but the main one that stands out is the solid tender rear handrails. Another issue that I must admit I hadn't noticed until it was pointed out on this thread and also when I got out a 'recent' Bachmann Hall for a comparison and that is the lack of the 'lip' at the front end of the cab roof. This sort of jumps out at me now! Even so, they are both really nice runners, and overall the detail and valve-gear is finer than the older Bachmann version. Obviously the mold parting lines along the top of the boiler on the Bachmann Ragley Hall are much more visible with it being an older tooling.

 

I was going to post a more detailed comparison of the Bachmann and Hornby Halls and a more photos of my two Hornby Hall's on here, but a few others have beaten me to it now, so here is just one image showing the three models side-by-side. I like each of them in different ways!

 

 

Edited to change photo - first one was a bit rubbish - replacement not much better!

[leavesontheline]

.... and as if by magic ......

 

 

Again, for the money I paid I really like this. I do however find it odd that compared to Rood Ashton Hall Hornby have cut down the lining on the cab-side and tender by not applying the black central band, same as Olton Hall, but on this model there is additional full lining (i.e. orange/black/orange) on the firebox sides! How much extra did that cost?! Strange! As it stands though, a great Railroad model. As all three models have nameplates that are printed names on metal plates, I still don't understand how Hornby are advertising Rood Ashton Hall as having 'etched nameplates'  - it is exactly the same type of nameplate as the two Railroad versions. I asked them this by email a couple of weeks ago and still haven't had a reply. I'm not holding my breath!