Guest 7007GreatWestern Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Not patronising at all. Read my post again. I, and my fellow reviewers at Model Rail have been as critical as anyone of some of Hornby's models. In fact I've been criticising them, on and off, when I considered it necessary for the past 50 years. My comment was aimed at the absurdity of the language that is used by some, these days. It is the need for such comments that baffles me. CHRIS LEIGH Chris, Let me replay to you what you said. You said that people where using "totally OTT language"about "something they probably haven't even seen". What you are saying in effect is that their views are baseless. A definition of the adjective "patronising" is:- "Having a superior manner. Condescending". When you belittle someone's views on the strength of no evidence whatsoever you are being patronising. Period. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Chris, Let me replay to you what you said. You said that people where using "totally OTT language"about "something they probably haven't even seen". What you are saying in effect is that their views are baseless. A definition of the adjective "patronising" is:- "Having a superior manner. Condescending". When you belittle someone's views on the strength of no evidence whatsoever you are being patronising. Period. I did NOT belittle anyone's views. I wasn't talking about their views. I was talking about the OTT language by which they expressed them. End of. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andy Y Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Chris, Let me replay to you what you said. You said that people where using "totally OTT language"about "something they probably haven't even seen". What you are saying in effect is that their views are baseless. A definition of the adjective "patronising" is:- "Having a superior manner. Condescending". When you belittle someone's views on the strength of no evidence whatsoever you are being patronising. Period. Final warning; any more posts in that vein and your account will be suspended. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted February 4, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2015 Hattons have had another delivery of Olton Hall. Now showing more than 10 in stock. It seems (touch wood) that the supply issues are definitely beginning to fade away Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 4, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2015 Those models which have been offered as both Railroad and main range do tend to fall between two worlds, being extremely good in terms of railroad type models but compromised when compared to high end models. The A1 seemed to start this concept and I think it is actually a very good model but there is no doubt that Hornby could have made a better A1. On this Hall I'll wait and see, it is often the case that models are much nicer in the flesh than when viewed in pictures. On language and getting worked up about models, at the end of the day this is a hobby and everybody has there own conception of what is acceptable, good value etc. There are things in the world we should be angry about, this is supposed to be a hobby and fun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Those models which have been offered as both Railroad and main range do tend to fall between two worlds. Consensus so far seems to be that the Hall appears to be an excellent RAILROAD range model, and very suitable for medium priced train sets and for those who want to tune it up themselves with extra details. The issue comes when it is also trotted out as a high-spec model with a nicer paint job. It has intentional compromises that make it easy to criticize as a high-spec model. We shall have to see what that model looks like when it arrives. (I did a quick side by side study of the three, presumably photoshopped, illustrations online in the Hornby catalogue. There are subtle differences like the Rood Ashton Hall appearing to have separately fitted rear tender hand rails, but it is not reasonable to assume this improvement is planned when the model ships.) US manufacturers have been doing high-end and low-end ranges for a while. There shouldn't be as much confusion between the two as Hornby has created. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Those models which have been offered as both Railroad and main range do tend to fall between two worlds, being extremely good in terms of railroad type models but compromised when compared to high end models. The A1 seemed to start this concept and I think it is actually a very good model but there is no doubt that Hornby could have made a better A1. On this Hall I'll wait and see, it is often the case that models are much nicer in the flesh than when viewed in pictures. On language and getting worked up about models, at the end of the day this is a hobby and everybody has there own conception of what is acceptable, good value etc. There are things in the world we should be angry about, this is supposed to be a hobby and fun. I think you've hit the nail on the head with your first sentence. The Hall is very much in similar vein to Tornado but it should be remembered that though the Hall is only just available now, it was prepared back in the days when the A1 was new. I have to say, I've never looked closely at the Railroad Tornado but I did review the blue-liveried TTS sound version recently and found it hard to believe that the basis is a Railroad model. I think the separation between the two there is OK but the TTS model does benefit from the elaborate lined blue livery. I don't like some of the moulded features on the Hall but I accept that it is necessary to keep models affordable. In my review in the forthcoming Model Rail, I've tried to be objective about the price/detail balance and I hope I've been fair. Today, I have (briefly) inspected a Pitchford Hall, which is part of a trainpack. I will add some comments about it on Model Rail's Facebook page once the issue containing the review is published. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 4, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2015 I'd never looked at the Hornby A1 until my little lad got one in his train set this Christmas and I have to say I was actually very impressed. The model runs beautifully and there is more nice detail than I ever expected to see including surprisingly good valve gear, wheels etc. The finish is basic but well applied and the overall impression is really very good. The infuriating thing (from my perspective, it isn't my model....) is that they have omitted cab glazing, this really detracts from what would otherwise be a really rather nice model even in basic railroad trainset spec. If the new Hall is of a similar standard I think it will be an excellent budget model however if looking at the full spec model probably not as good as the Bachmann alternative. However,if they stick TTS sound on it that might alter the equation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 Today, I have (briefly) inspected a Pitchford Hall, which is part of a trainpack. I will add some comments about it on Model Rail's Facebook page once the issue containing the review is published. Chris, once you've published your comments, could you reply here whether the Pitchford Hall model is decorated with cylinder casing lining and a red spot route availability mark? These do not appear on the illustrations. Also does Pitchford Hall have the same moulded tender handrails as Olton Hall? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted February 4, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 4, 2015 I haven't seen one but I understand from a trade contact that 'Pitchford Hall' has the tender water scoop, brake rigging and painted backhead detail but otherwise the loco body is to the same standard as 'Olton Hall' and the rear end of the tender also has the moulded handrails. The train pack price does seem to suggest that it might be the more expensive version however it is unlined (not that it necessarily should be in that livery) so it sounds as if it might work out as a profitable investment for Hornby. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozexpatriate Posted February 4, 2015 Share Posted February 4, 2015 The train pack price does seem to suggest that it might be the more expensive version however it is unlined (not that it necessarily should be in that livery) The illustration in the online catalogue is lined (sort of). (Look at the locomotive detail picture, not the whole train.) Note the placement of the lining. Should an unlined Hall have a route availability mark? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted February 4, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 4, 2015 I haven't seen one but I understand from a trade contact that 'Pitchford Hall' has the tender water scoop, brake rigging and painted backhead detail but otherwise the loco body is to the same standard as 'Olton Hall' and the rear end of the tender also has the moulded handrails. The train pack price does seem to suggest that it might be the more expensive version however it is unlined (not that it necessarily should be in that livery) so it sounds as if it might work out as a profitable investment for Hornby.. Painted Backhead? That's good to know. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted February 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2015 I think the area of concern with these hybrid railroad/full price models is te full price element. I think Hornby are doing a real service to the hobby by making such good newly tooled models available as railroad releases and should be commended for it. While I think most people on this board will not be looking for such models there is a market for more economical models which are nicely finished and accurate if lacking in finer detail and made to a reduced specification. The trainset market (smaller than it was, but still there), those on a tight budget, those who like to hack RTR and do super detailing, conversion etc or even those whose interest is operating. At one time operating was a big part of the hobby and there were people who were happy with basic models and scenery as their passion was replicating the operation of a real railway in miniature, that element of the hobby isn't what it was but I guess it will still be there. And despite the criticisms, to my eyes these models (A1, P2, the Hall from pictures) are nice models if not as nice as full spec releases. Whilst I'm not sure about the idea of doing them up and selling at full price I'd be rather sad if Hornby moved away from them as railroad releases as a complementary second tier to their full fat releases. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted February 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2015 Does anyone have any images of Pitchford Hall? Particularly cab interior? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MikeParkin65 Posted February 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2015 The pictures on the Rails site is from the Hornby catalogue and will probably be a CGI. Not correct Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 5, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 5, 2015 Not correct I would have to say that it would appear to me to be a genuine image but I have no indisputable evidence for that. Looks like the usual Rails digital montage from where I sit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveyBfromG Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I got chance to have a quick look at one today, although I did not get a lot of observation time as it was only being motor tested on a yard of track, then reboxed. But,from that short time I can also confirm the following. The model had brake rods and a water scoop. The most dissappointing thing that I noticed was that the only thing painted in the cab was a silver regulator and the two brown side cab seats...that's it. I would have loved to see a detailed cab. Maybe this is still a Railroad model with just a bit extra than Olton Hall? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium brushman47544 Posted February 5, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 5, 2015 I would have to say that it would appear to me to be a genuine image but I have no indisputable evidence for that. Looks like the usual Rails digital montage from where I sit. When I looked, Rails had both the Hornby catalogue image and their own photos; two of the loco plus a couple of the coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted February 5, 2015 Share Posted February 5, 2015 I would have to say that it would appear to me to be a genuine image but I have no indisputable evidence for that. Looks like the usual Rails digital montage from where I sit. Sorry, I may be wrong but it looked like the illustration on Hornby's website to me. Apologies if I misled. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
B15nac Posted February 6, 2015 Share Posted February 6, 2015 Would be nice to see some pictures of the chassis if anyone has taken one apart. As soon as rood ashton is released I will buy her an upload some photos. I think they look more hall like than the Bachmann model. Ive got two Bachmann halls and find them superb but some detail a little chunky if im being critical. But they are getting on now! They came out when I was at school an I left school over 10 years ago Cheers Neil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted February 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2015 I have just received my DCC Sound fitted Olton Hall from Hattons. She runs as smooth as anything straight from the box. She has had etched nameplates, numberplates, and Headboard fitted, turning her into Hogwarts Castle. The tender and cabside lining has been re done with Transfers from HMRS and all I need now is to get some transfers made for the tender and coaches crests. The sound is fantastic, although Hattons did not include an instruction leaflet with the list of available sounds. I have managed to work out what the majority of them are so I'm happy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold toboldlygo Posted February 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2015 I have just received my DCC Sound fitted Olton Hall from Hattons. She runs as smooth as anything straight from the box. She has had etched nameplates, numberplates, and Headboard fitted, turning her into Hogwarts Castle. The tender and cabside lining has been re done with Transfers from HMRS and all I need now is to get some transfers made for the tender and coaches crests. The sound is fantastic, although Hattons did not include an instruction leaflet with the list of available sounds. I have managed to work out what the majority of them are so I'm happy. Any photos? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Hilux5972 Posted February 7, 2015 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 7, 2015 Yep I'll get some taken tomorrow morning. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted February 7, 2015 Share Posted February 7, 2015 I keep tuning into this thread in the hope of seeing images, as i am confused by remarks and a peep on the Hornby website. Is it the Hall with a fictional Maroon BR livery? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Ian Hargrave Posted February 7, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 7, 2015 I keep tuning into this thread in the hope of seeing images, as i am confused by remarks and a peep on the Hornby website. Is it the Hall with a fictional Maroon BR livery? The final variant turned out by J.K.Rowling when she was C.M.E. at Swindon in 2075. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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