lightengine Posted September 17, 2013 Share Posted September 17, 2013 I bought the Lord of the Isles in the early 70's and it was never a very good runner. It seemed to me at the time that it was some kind of insulation problem between the wheels and the chassis. Did/does anyone remember this or did I just buy a bad runner? Being new back into the hobby, has anyone got a resolution to the problem? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted September 22, 2013 Share Posted September 22, 2013 I am not familiar with the Lord of the Isles itself, but many Triang locos could suffer the same problem. One side of the loco will have pickup(s), with the wheel(s) isolated from the chassis by a plastic bush. If this bush is worn (or missing), you can get a short between the wheel and chassis. Alternatively, you can pick up debris betwen the wheels and chassis, which can result in shorts. I would suggest removing the bushed wheel and make sure everything is very clean and that the bush is in good condition. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium New Haven Neil Posted September 22, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted September 22, 2013 Make sure the 'magnadhesion' magnet doesn't have any filings sticking to it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hartleymartin Posted September 24, 2013 Share Posted September 24, 2013 I saw an article a while back where someone had replaced the front bogie with a SPUD or a Black Beetle, wiring this together with the main motor it gives good haulage. In fact, the bogie started at a different voltage and apparently it gives a rather nice wheel-slip effect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I have just purchased an old Triang Lord of the Isles and it is shorting out ; you can see sparks flying out from the driving wheels as per the above descriptions. 1. Can somebody give me tips for disassembly of the loco and how to remove the wheels to check the plastic bushes ? There are three screws under the loco and I assume that these should be removed first. 2. Can you buy replacement bushes to insulate the wheels or should I make my own ? 3. I would also like to replace the plastic wheels on the tender and the front bogie. How do I get these out and how would I get metal wheels back in ? I am used to working with plastic which you can just spring apart but these frames are heavy diecast metal. 4. The replacement metal wheels would have to be insulated too wouldn't they ? 5. The motor is also very noisy ; it sounds like a coffee grinder. Other than applying some oil to the gears and motor bearings, is there something else I should look at to solve this problem ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon G Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 I have just purchased an old Triang Lord of the Isles and it is shorting out ; you can see sparks flying out from the driving wheels as per the above descriptions. 1. Can somebody give me tips for disassembly of the loco and how to remove the wheels to check the plastic bushes ? There are three screws under the loco and I assume that these should be removed first. 2. Can you buy replacement bushes to insulate the wheels or should I make my own ? 3. I would also like to replace the plastic wheels on the tender and the front bogie. How do I get these out and how would I get metal wheels back in ? I am used to working with plastic which you can just spring apart but these frames are heavy diecast metal. 4. The replacement metal wheels would have to be insulated too wouldn't they ? 5. The motor is also very noisy ; it sounds like a coffee grinder. Other than applying some oil to the gears and motor bearings, is there something else I should look at to solve this problem ? Brian, I would take a look at Service Sheet 32, which covers the original Triang version. You can find it on this link: http://www.hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_menu.asp I normally remove the wheels on Triang locos by inserting two small screwdrivers between the wheel and chassis, then twisting them both at the same time to lever the wheel away from the chassis. Using the two screwdrivers help keep everything square. If the insulating bushes seem OK, do not do anything other than lightly clean them, as they may have got brittle over the years and fall to bits! Also, I am not sure if you can still get replacements, so you may have to make your own if required. The front bogie wheels can also be removed with the 2 screwdrivers. As you say, metal wheels need to be insulated - this is usually a plastic bush between wheel and axle on all the wheels. I dont know about the tender ones, but if you did replace them with metal ones, I would be tempted to add some extra pickups to either the tender or front bogie which will probably improve the loco's running. As to the noise, I would only oil the bearings very lightly (use a syringe or similar). I use a molybdenum grease on the gears which can help general running and reduce the noise. Best of luck! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 22, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 22, 2013 There is absolutely no need to take the drive wheels off the axles with this model, they drop into slots as shown on the service sheet http://www.hornbyguide.com/service_sheet_details.asp?sheetid=146 this bit of design can lead to the shorting described as the keeper plate is an early plastic moulding and tends to be quite brittle. Wear on the pegs that hold the driving wheelset in place and the large diameter of the wheels can lead to the insulated rim touching the chassis. Solutions? take up the play somehow, depends how badly worn the bearing surfaces are, or a small amount of thin tape applied to the chassis behind the offending wheel should do the trick. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted November 22, 2013 Share Posted November 22, 2013 From memory this is a Magnahesion loco? Metal swarf used to collect around the magnets, and short to the wheels, causing arcing, on the original models, but i don't know if recent models had these magnets. As for the noise of the gears, there are a couple of options. 1. replace the originals (20:1?) with Ultrascale replacements, giving a better ratio (probably 40:1?) with better speed control, and quieter. 2. An old Model Railway Constructor article (which I have) shows a way of adding a screw to the motor, to bear on the armature shaft, holding it tighter and reducing play and noise. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lightengine Posted November 22, 2013 Author Share Posted November 22, 2013 From memory this is a Magnahesion loco? Metal swarf used to collect around the magnets, and short to the wheels, causing arcing, on the original models, but i don't know if recent models had these magnets. As for the noise of the gears, there are a couple of options. 1. replace the originals (20:1?) with Ultrascale replacements, giving a better ratio (probably 40:1?) with better speed control, and quieter. 2. An old Model Railway Constructor article (which I have) shows a way of adding a screw to the motor, to bear on the armature shaft, holding it tighter and reducing noplay and noise. Stewart Its a 70's model I picked up new as a teen but from new was always a bad runner. Maybe if the shop is still open in Taunton I could take it back. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Make sure the 'magnadhesion' magnet doesn't have any filings sticking to it! I pulled the loco apart this morning which was quite a complicated job. The pickup spring snappped during disassembly but I see that they are available as spares so that is not a problem. There were not only iron filings stuck to the metal parts but three long track pins as well ! No wonder it was not running well with sparks flying everywhere. 1. What is a good degreaser to use to remove all the gunk from the metal and plastic parts before lubrication and assembly ? I have wiped most of it off with cotton buds and a cotton rag. 2. I can see how to spring the wheels from the tender as that is a plastic frame but the bogie is a metal frame and I really cannot see how to get the wheels out. They barely roll at all so the plastic wheels must be replaced on both bogie and tender......somehow ? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hallmodelspares Posted December 3, 2013 Share Posted December 3, 2013 the x03 style version was quite fast running but the x-04 original was best to me it had less wheelslip. the newer version of this and the midland single which share the chassis and drive do not have magnets on the chassis block instead the driver wheel has a traction tyre on it and mods to the motor were done it houses a can type motor Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anton-in-wiltshire Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I have a Lord of the Isles" and a Blue Caledonian Locomotive.These both were, and still are, very noisy but that is the nature of the beast. One has to live with it.I did try experimenting using different gears and motors, but with my limited engineering tools this was frustratingly difficult to get right and turned out to be a waste of time.The slow running of the locomotives is dreadful, in my opinion due to the crude current pick up from the driving and trailing wheels, but I cured this by modifying the tender to pick up the current on all six wheels. This, coupled with the loco's own pick ups, worked wonders and now both locos will creep anywhere without stalling.The other issue is the problem of pulling power. These locomotives in standard form are absolutely useless, however the problem can be resolved very easily.First you carry out the modification to make the current pick-up from the tender. Then you fit rubber tyres to the driving wheels. I got a local engineer to mill a very small groove in the wheels to about half the depth of the Tyre. (Tyres can be obtained from Peters Spares on E-Bay). You can, with care, fit the tyres without modifying the wheels, but it is then necessary to put the tiniest dab of super-glue carefully around the edge of the tyre to prevent it moving off the wheel.The reae axle of the locomotive turned spasmodically, which I found was due to the influence of the "Magnadehesion" magnet. I removed this from the engine unit and fitted a lead block in its place.After the mods the results were astonishing ! The locomotives now go without jerking or stalling. It will pull six of the GWR clerestory roof carriages on the flat, and even even up my test incline at 1" in 16" !!!. You can stop the train on the incline and it will pull away without slipping - no problem !.If you would like more information on how to carry out the mods, please e-mail me at antonx@tiscali.co.uk, and I will be pleased to help. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted December 12, 2013 Share Posted December 12, 2013 I thought the original locos were fitted with the XT60 motor? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted December 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 12, 2013 Not strictly true, they had a modified XT-60 with an X03 worm. This was designated X05. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Will the Hornby spare parts X9651 (driving and trailing wheel set) fit the old Triang Lord of the Isles loco ? http://www.petersspares.com/Hornby-x9651-422-dean-single-driving-wheel-trailing-wheel-set.ir?cName=spares-Hornby-spares-all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2016 Not sure if the triang wheelsets had bearings, I'll check.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted November 24, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted November 24, 2016 No it didn't, you'll have to remove the wheels, take off the bearings and refit.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 There could be a problem getting the wheels to run true again after removing the wheels to get at the bushes. I want to replace the old wheels on my Triang LOTI as it has a bad case of the ''wobbles'' ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prometheus Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 I'm afraid I gave up and cheated on my two rebuilds. The original Triang motors can be made to run nicely if you are lucky and have a good one. I got fed up with constantly having to dismantle and clean them however and, in the end, simply bought two of the new chassis units, the ones which sit under all of those re-issued 'Achilles' and LMS Singles types. They are a straight fit. The cheapest way of doing this at the time was by buying a pair of Hornby 'Emily' locos for £80 and selling on the bodies and the tenders. That way, the two chassis units cost £45. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BG John Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 I wonder if mine still works. I don't think it's been run for about 45 years. My plan is to convert it to a broad gauge 2-2-2 to P4 standards, so it will need a little bit of work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Old Triang never dies, it can always be repaired. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 Mine ran beautifully from new 45 years ago, XT 60 type motor magnadhesion etc LOI + 4 clerestories. Ran for hours crawling up the gradients with massive wheel slip and hurtling down again. Something catastrophic happened to it as I still have the wheels and bogie and parts of the Tender are around some where. Replacing the insulated wheel bushes should be fairly easy as you don't have to worry about quartering, Bogie axles were peened in so that is more difficult and mine had split wheels on plain axles which were quite difficult to extract, Jacksons might possibly fit the axles or you might trim Jackson non pin point axles to suit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian777999 Posted November 25, 2016 Share Posted November 25, 2016 What do you mean by ''peened in'' ? I have tried to remove the bogie wheels before but without success. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted November 26, 2016 Share Posted November 26, 2016 The 1960s mazak bogie frame had two lugs each side which were bashed over to hold the axle. Removing the axle caused the lugs to shear so a new method of securing the wheels had to be bodged, anything from superglue to brass strips. The original LoI used the magnadhesion to hold the back end down so on brass or N/S track the loco is nose heavy and rests on the bogie reach bar so the rear wheels don't touch the track giving only 2 wheel pick up and non revolving rear wheels. Anton-in-Wiltshires issues sound like an attempt to run a 1960s LoI on N/S code 100 They wont without massive bodgery. I would avoid traction tyres but weight the nose end as much as possible and do one of those floating chassis tenders with as much tender weight as possible supported by the back of the loco. A Wills or K's Tender Dean cast white metal 3000 gallon tender would be ideal, maybe replace the raves with coal rails. Look for my old cast tender on eBay next week! I reckon a Ks Powered tender heavily weighted with an extra drive shaft forward to a worm drive on the locos trailing wheel should do the trick if you want it to pull 60 wagon goods trains, or pull Hornby Kings backwards to get a laugh at exhibitions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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