Super 60

[Multiple identity account 2]

Hi,

What exactly is the concept behind a Class 60 (Super 60). Are a few of them re-engined? Or is it more than just that?

Cheers!
J

[frobisher]

As I understand it, it's a rolling programme of refurbishment but with no new major parts, but each is completely stripped back and rebuilt.

[Multiple identity account 2]

Thanks. So basically they are taken apart, serviced and fully rebuilt again.

[D1059]

Nothing more than the routine heavy overhauls the class were due that DB Schenker kept deferring, preferring to store them, using members sporadically until they broke

 

Now they realise they can't do without them on certain flows - short of double heading or buying new kit, they are spending money catching up on maintenance on a smallish batch of locos and then calling it refurbishment. Pure spin

[black and decker boy]

Try reading rail magazine which has just run an article on the project. It's a bit more than just catching up on maintenance with every part stripped back and rebuilt, power unit fully rebuilt, reliability modifications and then full repaint. I think it quotes 20,000 man hours per loco.

[Classsix T]

20,000 is the amount of engine hours each loco is allowed to accrue before overhaul is deemed necessary. (Or more likely the insurance runs out.)

Each overhaul takes six weeks using the CEM principle.

As mentioned, the latest RAIL mag covers the process in depth.

 

C6T.

[HSTFAN13]

Try reading rail magazine which has just run an article on the project. It's a bit more than just catching up on maintenance with every part stripped back and rebuilt, power unit fully rebuilt, reliability modifications and then full repaint. I think it quotes 20,000 man hours per loco.

20,000 is the amount of engine hours each loco is allowed to accrue before overhaul is deemed necessary. (Or more likely the insurance runs out.)

Each overhaul takes six weeks using the CEM principle.

As mentioned, the latest RAIL mag covers the process in depth.

C6T.

I don't think you can get RAIL in India , May be wrong.

HSTFAN13

[Multiple identity account 2]

Thanks for all your valuable inputs!!!

[Ohmisterporter]

For numpties like me, what exactly is the CEM principle?

[HillsideDepot]

CEM is Component Exchange Maintenance. Traditionally a locomotive would be sent to a main works to be stripped of engine, bogies, compressor etc etc and each item would be overhauled before being returned to the empty body shell. But different components take different lengths of time to overhaul, so reassembly would take some time, awaiting the return of the various parts. CEM relies on a supply of previously overhauled parts so the loco is stripped, cleaned and prepared for the overhauled items which would be waiting ready to fit as soon as the body shell is ready. The old components would then be overhauled while the locomotive itself is back in traffic earning money. 

 

It's the system the Western Region used for the hydraulics, where the main maintenance depots had heavy lift capabilities and would swap components on depot before sending the defective/worn item back to Swindon for repair. Other Regions would send the whole loco to Works.

 

I think that the Eastern Region used CEM in later BR days when class 31s would have bogie changes at the depot (in one shift iirc) as these needed maintenance at more frequent intervals than say, the engine. I don't think it was a particular problem with 31s, more that they were the chosen Guinea Pigs. The method then spread to the whole of BR, with "Level 5" depots doing the work. I recall that a number of locomotives were withdrawn at the time, to proved the pool of components to start the system. Whilst certain enthusiasts were very unhappy at this in reality of course there had previously always been a number of locos at any one time which were sitting in BREL's workshops as empty shells rather than out on the rails working (and therefore being "spotted").  

 

Others can no doubt be more specific, but that's the outline.

[Ohmisterporter]

Thanks Adrian, it's common sense when you do things that way but surprising how long it takes to catch on. 

[rannorgana]

I think this is what was done in the steam era with heavy overhauls

 

The engine would come into the shop, be stripped down to the frames, and components repaired/replaced as necessary.

 

any components that required extra time for repair/refurbishment - boilers & fireboxes, tenders, etc. would be exchanged with an appropriate fixed component or tender that was spare and in good condition.

 

 

[Ohmisterporter]

IIRC the Midland painted the loco numbers on the tender, so when they went into the shops the tender, which usualy had less time spent on repairs, waited until the engine was ready to pair up again. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

[jjb1970]

I'm not sure where the "Super 60" bit comes in as a full overhaul doesn't add anything to the design or performance capabilities, I'm with the "its spin" on this one. A Super 60 would infer some actual upgrades, perhaps an up-rated engine, new emissions performance package, new control system or something but not just an overhaul. When GE marketed their "Super 7" Dash 7 models in the 80's I believe they did fit some of the technology developed for the new Dash 8 line.

[BernardTPM]

I've always thought the Class 60s were super

[black and decker boy]

Regardless of the publicity I see nothing of note other than the process of routine maintenance being carried out on a heavy scale. In British Railways Days this went on continuously with no magazine P.R. Just the acceptance that, in order to maintain a reasonable motive power fleet, at some point in time each piece of rolling stock had to be refreshed during what was known as a Heavy General Overhaul which is what is happening here, nothing more nothing less. After fifteen years in the hands of E.W.S. pitilessly thrashed, neglected and left to rot often in the open air with precision components exposed to the irritations of the tin worm one would expect little different from the levels of attention being lavished on them now in order to "Reset the clock". As far as I recall they were intended to run for around eight years between H.G.O.s, which seems about right given the increase in unplanned depot repairs to certian components not normally carried out at these locations as time passed, and this is the first time that any such comprehensive programme has been attempted, shameful disregard of pragmatic maintenance on a large scale.

 

Indeed the process was, is, expensive but at some point in time it becomes painfully obvious that just as much as not being able to afford such attention an undertaking can't afford not to pay close attention to the upkeep of its assets otherwise it ends up with no means of trading. At one point E.W.S. might just have meant Everything Was Stopped. 

 

So in a big sense this is catch up as neither H.G.O.s or the later C.E.M. variant has ever been extensively applied to the 60s during their lives.

 

Engine overhaul periods have been getting longer with better technology. Gone are the BR days of an engine rebuild after 5000 to 10000 hours (class 37/4s could need an f exam every 4 to 5 years). It's a bit like cars, 5000 mile service is now often 15000 to 20000 miles.the class 60 overhaul period is 20000 tops hours. No overhaul means no work and switch off. The 66s and 67s are similar and not many have needed power unit rebuilds yet but they are underway but they have worked for 14 years now. BR was no different in extending overhaul period or doing e exams instead of full overhauls to keep locos in traffic beyond their notional works due date. Many 26s, 37s and 47s were worked into the ground in this way, some later getting overhauled but many going for scrap.

 

The tag super60 may well be a bit of spin but from reports of those involved, its more than a simple overhaul with modifications and redesign of key components carried out by Brush &DBS to improve reliability. Clearly no change of the basic technology / components such as power unit or traction motors had taken place and the bulk of the work is of an overhaul nature. Whatever you class the work as, it is giving them a new lease of life which can only be good for us enthusiasts

[NXEA!]

20000 may be the limit, but two 60's have special dispensation to go past that. 60011 and 60099. 60011 was the testbed for the overhauls with electrical component's, and 60099 was a mechanical test bed.  

 

60011 has accumulated just over 20000 hours on the clock, but has been stopped. However, it has recently been allocated repairs on TOPS, whether that means it will be battered back into shape for the sandite season, or whether it will be actually allocated an overhaul remains to be seen, same with 60009/012 although I suspect these two are just repairs, as 60012' repairs were sanctioned about a year ago along with 033/080/087. However all work was stopped last month, but it appears 012 has found favour again being just shy of 15000 hours on the clock. I must admit I am bemused as to the choice of 009 as it has 18000 hours on the clock, although it might be a little bit 'fresher' at it was in traffic until '09 I believe, but still it will not take long for it rack up the remaining 2000 hours. 

 

60099 is something of a misnomer, it's got 23000 hours on the clock and it still slogs day in day out on heavy oil trains with next to no problem at all it seems. Quite when DB finally say enough is enough is anyone's guess! 

[black and decker boy]

Thanks, having been employed in locomotive maintenance for many years all these fundementals had somehow passed me by. There used to be a saying which I often heard in mess room conversations "You've been reading Rail again haven't you?" enough said perhaps.

Glad to help squire