GLOSSY Hornby A4's ON GOING PROJECT. 4464,4468,4498, ETC CUSTOMISING THE Hornby MODEL

[Rob Hayes]

(*UPDATE - I have decided to turn this into an ongoing update of my A4 collection to share with you all as it develops. Other posters who want to share their A4 related stuff photos and information and inspirational material welcome. Cheers Rob)

 

Hello all and good morning I have just gloss varnished one of my Hornby A4's 4903 Peregrine in the gorgeous LNER blue livery. She might be a railroad loco but she looks the business.

 

I have swapped out the motion set for finer super detail versions and Glossed her up so she looks to me more "real" like shes made out of metal.

I am very happy with how she now looks and thought I would share her with you.

 

I hope you like her. Here she is outside curing off in the afternoon sun.

 

Cheers Rob

 

So there she is thanks for looking.

 

Rob

 

 

 

Edited September 29, 2013 by robhst

[SEVERN VALLEY]

Looks gorgeous - well done.

 

Best regards, John.

[Rob Hayes]

Cheers John I now wish I had bothered to fit windows too her. I guess I could still do that.

I have today just paired her with a spare super detail tender.

I might yet go back and fit more accurate front beam decals and silver the front window frames and give her another top coat.

If so I will post an update here. I might show more photos with the new tender.

 

Cheers Rob

[Rob Hayes]

Its always good to hear feedback. I see I have 1 like and 1 disagree.

I love the broad church of ideas modelling is. I may do some more photos in a bit of my other glossed A4s 60022 and 60003

plus peregrine with the other super detail tender Which started this thing off.

I received the tender described as "mint un used" off ebay of which I In the most only have good experiences but the tender had paint missing from the handrails. a big gouge to the rear tender and other minor blemishes. So I sprayed a gripper coat misted from a distance to build texture and flatted back with wet and dry 1200 then sealed with a coat of Klear to create a solid barrier to avoid any possible chemical reaction with Hornby paint/plastic, then sprayed on a few gloss coats as I was curious to have a model glossed like a real one despite what many would disagree with it now does look mint and has no gouge, I like the finish so much I have done more locos like it. I like the idea of some NRM level of shine locos going around the track. and when filmed seeing the reflective ripple moving over them really adds another dimension of realism to them. It seems to make them look "bigger"

My super D will not end up like this though that will have to look suitably battered !

Cheers Rob

[Nelson Jackson]

I really like the loco, the high gloss shine looks brilliant with the light reflecting off it, she looks exactly like the A4s currently in the NRM. Well done.

One question, if you don't mind, what varnish did you use? And how did you apply it?

 

Ps: just my opinion, I would be tempted to add real coal to the tender, that would finish it off beautifully.

[Rob Hayes]

Hi there I am glad you like it, I have always wanted exactly that finish of NRM/Preserved A4's and steam as thats what I grew up with the 80s and on.

 

The finish is something that takes practice but can be achieved easily but will require bravery..

 

I use Humbrol rattle cans they are amazing paints these days and I use them mostly on my model kits over on Britmodeller (robvulcan on there if you want check me out)

 

They go down well level off and are extremely scratch resistant. The matt colours grip acrylics amazingly well if you brush humbrol or revel aqua or xtracrylics with some windsor and newton flow improver added they become thin like ink but retain colour density and do no leave brush marks thanks to the flow improver. but you also get a solid finish that wont scratch and looks airbrushed. I then seal them with klear.

 

As for the humbrol varnishes they are amazing but don’t use any of them in humid condition or they will fog. but don’t worry if they do as further coats of the same varnish will remove this.

 

Believe it or not this loco and tender were fogged up totally and looked like it was a frosty morning (looked pretty good actually,) but the 3rd coat got rid of that entirely. even sometimes when the gloss fogs with in 24 hours it will go like glass.

 

The process for doing these A4s was to spray from the humbrol rattle can from full arm extended distance a misted gripper coat. this is because it will stop the gloss varnish which has no pigment from eating the Hornby paint as it is made from a chemical which cuts in and grips. so misting it a few times is essential, I usually sit the bodies on bog roll centre tube this is perfect to hold them.

Once the gripper coat is dry rinse the bodies and let dry to get rid of fragments then,

I get a little container of water and a piece of sponge, I then pour out into the cap some old type or new type johnsons klear, with the wetted sponge I ring it out and then dip it in the klear then ring out a bit. I then wipe over a thin layer of klear the wet sponge gives more working time but your still need to be quite quick and watch for little fragments,

let that coat dry, then with 1200 grit wet and dry lightly rub down the large flat areas watch out for rivits and details but dont worry too much your only trying to remove the fragments that might be stuck in the klear if done carefully there will be very few. then repeat the process 2 more times. by now it will look shiny but not the right kind of shiney. every gloss varnish will give a different effect but never have I seen one as effective as humbrol 35 rattle can varnish..

 

Next once your klear coats have dried and any fragments removed with wet and dry don’t re-coat it with anymore klear. its only there as a barrier to the Hornby paint with the gripper coat on and the klear gripped onto that to prevent any reaction.

Now rinse your loco and tender body and let dry make sure you have a sunny day but not humid. leave the rattle can outside for an hour to acclimatise along with the body and tender for a few mins prior to spraying, getting everything the same temperature will improve the finish quicken the dry time prevent fogging and just basically make it work right for you,

 

spray your first coat this one will be about 8 inches away move in quick directions spraying before contact with the body and stopping after contact with the body as you move the can over the body this stops spattering got left to right  and get a fairly thick coat down. It will level off and shrink down as it dries. If it fogs leave it a min or 2 and go over it again once its tacked over the varnish will reactivate and shrink down again. even if you encounter fog again leave it a day and then go over again it will still disappear (bit of a battle is possible but you will win)

once this has dried you can then apply further coats with little worry of reaction.

The final coat should be a heavy coat to get a really good gloss that levels off and gives a mirror sheen that is thin this is what your looking for but its hard to achieve but once you have got the knack you can do it. This was my first attempt.

A gamble yes but much better than any other gloss I have seen I have spent my whole life looking,. Best of all its not going to yellow like old tins used too.

I have done my best to take time out to explain too you it is tricky though It would be better if I could show you. or make a video on the matter.

 

Yes realistic coal load would be good but I will probably just paint it matt black, Though I see Bachmann have started glossing their coal which I don’t understand, My super d has gloss black coal,. hmm

 

This is an expensive process at 4.99 a can and each loco tender taking 2/3  cans each. but entirely worth it in my opinion the gloss looks so delicious to the eye they look like you could dip your hand into the finish its lush and lovely to touch too. The feel like they are a proper metal machine when you touch them and a real feast of eye candy. Too me at least.

The other added advantage is it helps protect the thin paint on the handrails.

 

I hope this is of help to you I will do some pictures of the others in a short while.

 

Cheers Rob

[Rob Hayes]

Here are some more photos of Peregrine with the new refurbed tender that had the gash down the right hand side and other uglies.

The legends series Hornby Mallard in Lner blue that is in original Hornby finish so you can compare the difference.

Plus to other a4s that came second hand and were also a little scruffy and missing items that I Have restored and shined too.

Its like a little great gathering. Hope you enjoy the following images.

 

[Rob Hayes]

Now the green ones

Edited September 22, 2013 by robhst

[Rob Hayes]

Cheers for liking my posts Nelson Jackson I hope the explanation goes some way to helping you out.

I am sorry for the amount of photos but A4s are addictive to look at with all their complex curves which seem to be so fluid and evolve and change from every angle it really is a work of art. I often wonder if the Bugatti nose was designed by a Gresley or Bugatti themselves as I heard the casing was developed over there.

Cheers Rob

[Nelson Jackson]

Your welcome,

I think if you were to make an NRM diorama with the turntable and all the A4s around it, just like the great gathering, that would be a brilliant sight to see in OO gauge.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Nelson Jackson

[Torn-on-the-platform]

These are cracking! A great idea, brilliantly executed. So good, that I wouldn't have noticed that Peregrine is a railroad example had you not mentioned it.

 

Its surprising that we don't see this finish more often.

[Rob Hayes]

I have thought about doing that I would love the Hornby great gathering A4s but found out about them too late. I think it's stupid they have made so few if such a popular set of models they could sell more. But it is what it is. If I could get just one it would be bittern.

I wish they would do a model of sir Nigel gresley as was in 1992 when I got to drive her with silver 4498 number that was her best look for me I do like the BR blue too though. Be nice to se her in green again.

 

I'd love to find out how to reliably remove Hornby numbers so I can do my own any tips ?

[Rob Hayes]

You flatter me haha. It's because most people believe gloss does not scale well. In some cases I agree but there are many different types if gloss finish that respond differently. How ever looking at these I personally love the gloss. Looking back at photos they were like this but in the hard days of steam it didn't last long in some photos they looked grubby even in LNER days.

It would be nice to have a dirty hammered wartime black loco to contrast these. I wonder if they got a clean working freight !

[Nelson Jackson]

We missed out on the Hornby great gathering aswell.

I have successfully removed LMS letters and numbers, by using Tcut and a Cotten bud, or a cocktail stick (for smaller areas) on a Hornby 2p loco, it worked very well and did not affect the paint underneath but It did leave a gloss shine where the Tcut was applied (but the gloss shine is good for applying transfers to). Hope this helps, but I would recommend that you test it first (I don't want to be held responsible if anything goes wrong)

I'll do a youtube vid soon about it.

[Rob Hayes]

Brilliant well I will try and hunt a spare body to try. I would like to get more railroad a4s falcon and mallard to do some more green and blue a4s.

Doing 4498 in the preserved 80s and early 90s garter blue livery would be great. but I would need to make sure removing the numbers and letters was done perfectly as the later style stainless numbers were alot thinner than the more elaborate gold shaded versions.

 

Doing a model of Union Of South Africa would be great also. As I live in kidderminster I can tell you I really miss her being on the SVR I hope she returns or another A4 takes up residence on the valley.

 

I hope one day to get enough cash together to get the guys who built tornado to build me a new A4. A nice dream I know.. But if I do ever manage that she would be kept on the SVR and she would be done up as different A4s no longer with us. Firstly as golden eagle in the much over looked doncaster green livery. A4s looked smart in that.

I hope Hornby get around to giving us some Green A4s Same as I hope they give us proper executive HST cars.

[Rob Hayes]

Oh and if anyone else does this be sure to use the "Acrylic" version of Humbrol 35 gloss varnish NOT the enamel variant

[DonnyRailMan]

Loco`s & photo`s look great.

[Joseph_Pestell]

For me, Peregrine is a bit too glossy (varnish perhaps a bit thick)  - but the Hornby untreated Mallard seems rather flat. That level of matt finish would look fine on a weathered model but not on a pristine one.

[DonnyRailMan]

I have always thought that the colours of locos have been very flat looking / matt in colour .

The L.M.S. red to me looks very bland, flat / matt to me along with LNER A4s blue colour .

 

 

                   D.R.M.

[Rob Hayes]

Yes I know what you mean matt does make the colours look "cheap", The Gloss for me brings out that almost regal quality locos like this have deep lustre of the colours are accentuated.

Matt colours for me are better suited to military models.

It all depends on how your modelling and more important how your viewing your own models. For instance if your layout is viewed from further away then you may opt for more satin or matt hues due to scale effect. that said these though shiny close up (which is how I will be viewing them on a very small layout) Do loose there shine prototypicaly from a distance due to the humbrol paint leveling and using small particles that scale well.

I am sure it would look wrong if I had used furniture varnish.

 

I think I should turn this thread into my A4 collection page as I customise them. I have just tried the T-cut this morning on my falcon and I am very happy with the results. I just cant wait for the fox transferrs to arrive and the model masters bittern plates to arrive.

I will be pinching the tender from my kingfisher perhaps. then again the railroad tender Is not bad its just got the coal load in which is not that bad I have seen a4s with coal stacked that high.

Whichever I choose I will need to extend the black of the cab rood and tender tops down a bit further to get her livery right for her current look. The only other difference I can spot but will ignore is that the real bittern has not got the black continued on the top of the valence like it should. But I prefer the look of it to be black anyhow.

 

Cheers for taking the time to look at these.

 

Rob

[Multiple identity account 2]

AMAZING mate!!!! They look superb and you've done a great job. Personally I have no clue as to why someone would disagree with it (no offence)? You obviously had a motive behind what you did. My only suggestion was to replace the coal as glossy coal looked unrealistic, but you beat me to it. I'm really impressed with your work. All your A4s look marvellous.

My jaw is still hanging in awe..... You made me like the glossy finish!

[Rob Hayes]

AMAZING mate!!!! They look superb and you've done a great job. Personally I have no clue as to why someone would disagree with it (no offence)? You obviously had a motive behind what you did. My only suggestion was to replace the coal as glossy coal looked unrealistic, but you beat me to it. I'm really impressed with your work. All your A4s look marvellous.

 

My jaw is still hanging in awe..... You made me like the glossy finish!

Well thank you very much. I am very happy to get such a positive response.

I must admit I was a little nervous about posting the images as I thought I would get brow beaten by the "it must be matt to be a model" whilst I understand that argument I have never totally agreed with it especially now as if you look at photos of these and real A4s to me these look more real. It was an experiment at the end of the day the 3 locos all had minor issues especially the Green 60022 , 60003 Both were missing the lamp irons and cab side glass piece which don't bother me too much and they also had glue marks on the boiler casing and tender sides which I have carefully got rid off with 1200 grit wet and dry and klear.

 

I am so happy with them that soon I will be adding more to my fleet here. I will post Images of them when they are finished. 4498 in 60s LNER garter blue with gold shaded letters as first preserved is done and needs glossing up modded from a Hornby double chimney Falcon.

Another double chimney falcon will be bittern as she is now once the decals and plates arrive. also the legends mallard you see will be fitted with speed plaques have the handrails silvered and glossed in the same manner.

 

I many thanks for the kind comments they are appreciated.

 

Just while were on the subject of A4s can anyone provide me with links to photos of wartime black A4s I would love to know which had N E and LNER on the tender. Also what sort of condition were they kept in. were they cleaned or were they so dirty you could not see the Identity and did they ever run minus their namplates.

 

sorry for all the questions but the history of Wartime A4s is something I have never been able to come across and a bit of a mystery to me. I guess there was not much history being recorded then as everyone was more focused on simply surviving.

 

Cheers Rob

[Nelson Jackson]

I'm glad the Tcut worked out well for you.

Wartime A4s, I think that during ww2 the A4s would have been filthy, and rarely kept clean. (I could be completely wrong, this is what I think, so please double check)

Can't wait to see more of your fantastic work

[Rob Hayes]

Cheers mate I will post more soon. I have contacted Digitrains today curious about their sound for the A4 as I have never heard it. They very kindly did a video just for me and I am very impressed with Paul's work on the sound. Here it is I will be ordering one of these for one of my A4s and probably more for sure.

 

[Nelson Jackson]

I found this,

Don't know how accurate it is, but it's a start

http://2509-silverlink.deviantart.com/art/LNER-A4-livery-chart-part-two-344348176

http://2509-silverlink.deviantart.com/art/LNER-A4-livery-chart-part-one-335551833

you can click on the photo and zoom in to see a better quality photo, which the numbers are more clearer to read.

Hope this helps

Edited September 23, 2013 by Nelson Jackson