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Inspection Saloon


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Thank you very much for the info on 45029. Will now try to get and see it again as I was one of the Stewards on her from 1979 to 1988 and travelled all over the UK on her. Just wish I had taken far more photos than I did at the time as then tbh never thought to take many.

 

I too travelled on 45029 a number of times when our S&T team went along with the 'bosses' when they toured our patch.  Also when we had it as part of the Blaenau Ffestiniog centenary train in 79.

 

post-1625-0-04690100-1484562040_thumb.jpg

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Worked as a guard on GW 80969 back in the 70s.  Light engine Class 37 (don't remember number) Canton-Newport Godfrey Road to attach, run around and loco leading, pick up inspection party (civil engineers dept) at HIgh Street, proceed to sites for inspection as required, which were Llandough sidings, Cogan Tunnel, Porthkerry Tunnel and Viaduct, reception sidings Aberthaw for lunch, prepared on board by Steward and consisting of liver, bacon, and creamed potatoes washed down by bottles of IPA, and which include yours truly and the loco crew, then to Margam and propel back to Newport main line, run around and stable saloon Godfrey Road, light engine home.  Summer of '75 or perhaps 74.

 

Lovely day out, shame to take the money!

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Not much space for the driver in that first single car example, and no space for the guard either, indeed Brakes (hand brake, guards brake) seem to have been secondary to the kitchen, maybe it was designed by ikea ?

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Not much space for the driver in that first single car example, and no space for the guard either, indeed Brakes (hand brake, guards brake) seem to have been secondary to the kitchen, maybe it was designed by ikea ?

 

 

Perhaps it was intended to haul a brake van

The handbrake on a DMU was in the cabs at both ends. I would have expected they would have been the same. Only a setter would have been needed for the guard, if at all? Interesting that the first design incorporates a Commonwealth bogie. Perhaps a bog standard DMU version wasn't a smooth enough ride for the management.

 

Paul J.

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The handbrake on a DMU was in the cabs at both ends. I would have expected they would have been the same. Only a setter would have been needed for the guard, if at all? Interesting that the first design incorporates a Commonwealth bogie. Perhaps a bog standard DMU version wasn't a smooth enough ride for the management.

 

Paul J.

Yes but usually the handbrake wheel in a DMU is to the right of the driver

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Class_108_driver%27s_cab.JPG

 

With the driver only having 1 (left window) of space to work with, that’s a pretty cramped working environment... then stick in a wide handbrake wheel, emergency brake and I suppose shove the Aws warning up the glass somewhere somewhere within the confines ..

 

It wouldn’t be pleasant for the driver, though as I said management have their own two seated (note armchairs) front window with seated views, dining table, kitchen, bathrooms.... guard can always have standing room in the back single window cab and keep his bag over his shoulder the entire journey, no pie warmer for him.

 

Whilst i’m No fan of unions, on this occasion i’d side with the crew, No wonder this one didn’t appear

 

The second single railcar looks better, with full cabs, but then it feels more of a management jolly train, there doesn’t look to be much space for “academic work” beyond a dinner table and the kitchen. With a full cab the benefit of forward view is lost, beyond the benefit of a regular DMU.

 

Sticking with an inspection saloon was probably the more practical option.

 

The two car looks the more practical solution, but restricted view still. I guess the two car was rejected on cost, there could have been a fourth way forwards that could have worked...

 

The DMBS looks like any other, so why not borrow one on demand, they could then have just built a trailer with a kitchen, dinner table, toilet and open plan viewing gallery to use as needed, no need to even have it motorised and it could have either hauled, added to a DMU consist or with a DMBS, just like the trailers built for class 121’s.

Edited by adb968008
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Yes but usually the handbrake wheel in a DMU is to the right of the driver

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Class_108_driver%27s_cab.JPG

 

With the driver only having 1 (left window) of space to work with, that’s a pretty cramped working environment... then stick in a wide handbrake wheel, emergency brake and I suppose shove the Aws warning up the glass somewhere somewhere within the confines ..

 

No worse than on the 4 wheel rail-bus's being used at the time looking at the measurements. Plenty of room on the RH side desk to put a handbrake wheel and setter if required as it was not designed to carry members of the public. AWS would not have been an issue in 1959. A lot of lines and the WR didn't have it.

 

Paul J.

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Yes but usually the handbrake wheel in a DMU is to the right of the driver

 

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Class_108_driver%27s_cab.JPG

 

With the driver only having 1 (left window) of space to work with, that’s a pretty cramped working environment... then stick in a wide handbrake wheel, emergency brake and I suppose shove the Aws warning up the glass somewhere somewhere within the confines ..

 

It wouldn’t be pleasant for the driver, though as I said management have their own two seated (note armchairs) front window with seated views, dining table, kitchen, bathrooms.... guard can always have standing room in the back single window cab and keep his bag over his shoulder the entire journey, no pie warmer for him.

 

Whilst i’m No fan of unions, on this occasion i’d side with the crew, No wonder this one didn’t appear

 

The second single railcar looks better, with full cabs, but then it feels more of a management jolly train, there doesn’t look to be much space for “academic work” beyond a dinner table and the kitchen. With a full cab the benefit of forward view is lost, beyond the benefit of a regular DMU.

 

Sticking with an inspection saloon was probably the more practical option.

 

The two car looks the more practical solution, but restricted view still. I guess the two car was rejected on cost, there could have been a fourth way forwards that could have worked...

 

The DMBS looks like any other, so why not borrow one on demand, they could then have just built a trailer with a kitchen, dinner table, toilet and open plan viewing gallery to use as needed, no need to even have it motorised and it could have either hauled, added to a DMU consist or with a DMBS, just like the trailers built for class 121’s.

 

Dinner table, as if!!!

The big table was needed for laying out the plans, the kitchen was a coincidence!

 

Mike.

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On the proposed single car inspection saloon, would the supply of bacon butties and IPA (tea in later years) not compensate the guard for having no seat of his own and having to slum it with the junior engineers and off section PW supervisors in the rear facing saloon?

 

As to management having two comfy forward facing seats, the whole idea of the exercise was to allow senior engineers to see and feel the track etc.

The seats behind them would be for the local staff who would be feeding information forward, about problem areas and future relaying plans.

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There was a bit of debate on here about whether or not an inspection saloon was used North of Inverness as an observation coach for the public. Those who said no suggested when seen at the end of a train it was as part of a move.

 

More footage has appeared on YouTube of it heading out of and returning to Inverness in 1986. Oddly enough unlike the converted 101 used later on they seem to have gone to the trouble of shunting it to the rear for the return. Video from the days the ex 101 as used often had it behind the loco on its return.  I suppose there would have been little point in shunting an ex 101 unless it could have been turned.  The ex LMS has forward facing windows at both ends unlike an ex 101.  Mind you let's be honest some of us would have enjoyed looking at the nose of a 37 on the return leg on the ex 101.

 

 

Departs about 11 mins into film returns about 31:40 mins. When it returns you see the occupants but not clear enough to see if they are engineers or tourists. Mind you its such a great video watch all of it anyway!

Edited by Waverley47708
Thoughts on comparison with ex 101, corrected link to video instead of my playlist and updated timings from video.
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There was a bit of debate on here about whether or not an inspection saloon was used North of Inverness as an observation coach for the public. Those who said no suggested when seen at the end of a train it was as part of a move.

 

More footage has appeared on YouTube of it heading out of and returning to Inverness in 1986. Oddly enough unlike the converted 101 used later on they seem to have gone to the trouble of shunting it to the rear for the return. Video from the days the ex 101 as used often had it behind the loco on its return.

 

 

Departs about 11 mins into film returns about 30 mins. When it returns you see the occupants but not clear enough to see if they are engineers or tourists. Mind you its such a great video watch all of it anyway!

 

As the footage shows, an Inspection saloon was indeed used on the scenic IS-Kyle summer services.  Also of interest, around 30mins in, inside IS TMD shows L/L 47 550 Uni of Dundee did in fact have a Grey roof at that time, later on the roof was Blue.

 

Great video footage, of days that are now sadly long gone.................thanks for posting.........

Edited by tractor_37260
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A little late to the party l know, but l ve waded through this thread looking to see if the LMS built versions ever ended up on the Southern region. I know each region would have inherited saloons from their parent companies but as these reached their life expired point, would more modern saloons be drafted in from other areas/regions to replace them?  

 

Hint : The perfect answer would be yes  by around 1970!!

 

 

Bob C

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31 minutes ago, Blobrick said:

A little late to the party l know, but l ve waded through this thread looking to see if the LMS built versions ever ended up on the Southern region. I know each region would have inherited saloons from their parent companies but as these reached their life expired point, would more modern saloons be drafted in from other areas/regions to replace them?  

 

Hint : The perfect answer would be yes  by around 1970!!

 

 

Bob C

 

Hi Bob,

 

The Southern had some older Maunsell-derived saloons, then in 1969 converted a buffet car from a Hastings unit into TDB 975025 which served as both the SR General Manager's saloon for VIP guests and as an inspection vehicle for the engineers.

 

The Saloon was equipped with driving cabs at both ends so that, unlike most other saloons, the locomotive (or an suitable EMU) could be driven directly from it; and the Hastings profile meant that it had unrivalled route availability.

 

Now named Caroline, the saloon is still in use with Network Rail.

 

cheers

 

Ben A.

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6 hours ago, Blobrick said:

A little late to the party l know, but l ve waded through this thread looking to see if the LMS built versions ever ended up on the Southern region. I know each region would have inherited saloons from their parent companies but as these reached their life expired point, would more modern saloons be drafted in from other areas/regions to replace them?  

Hint : The perfect answer would be yes  by around 1970!!

 

The Southern did have an ex LMS saloon, TDM395280, but this was a conversion rather than purpose built, so had a number of differences in the door and window layout. Not sure when it arrived on the Southern but was there by the mid 70s.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/28083135@N06/35678928755

http://www.flickr.com/photos/126254131@N05/49963708952

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On 08/11/2017 at 11:31, Enterprisingwestern said:

 

Dinner table, as if!!!

The big table was needed for laying out the plans, the kitchen was a coincidence!

 

Mike.

was the cocktail cabinet an after thought as well ?

 

(see the 2 car diagram).

I note the change from “Chairs” to “Reclining Chairs”.

 

this idea was for a jolly train, you wont kid me it was about hardworking engineers on that Proposed two car unit... 1/2 of one carriage was a kitchen.

 

The scenario I could for-see, was sitting in the front seats, move to the dinner table, enjoy a cocktail or too, pass the loos on the way to the reclining chairs for a nap...

 

couldnt have designed it better myself.

Edited by adb968008
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The driver's accommodation in the single car is no worse than that already in use in the various 4 wheeled railcars, and moving the handbrake wheel would not be a massive engineering challenge. The two car definitely looks like a mobile gin palace though. 

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On 10/10/2020 at 17:56, Simon Bendall said:

The Southern did have an ex LMS saloon, TDM395280, but this was a conversion rather than purpose built, so had a number of differences in the door and window layout. Not sure when it arrived on the Southern but was there by the mid 70s.

Here it is in mid-1985, by which time it had turned all-blue, but still marked ODs (Operating Department, Southern?), and still with the big RT (Route Training??) in the front window. At Stratford, with 33012, presumably learning the way round North London from the Southern.

 

85-12-35.jpg.79a5423ed890de6eb5e46e2d4f35517e.jpg

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39 minutes ago, eastwestdivide said:

Here it is in mid-1985, by which time it had turned all-blue, but still marked ODs (Operating Department, Southern?), and still with the big RT (Route Training??) in the front window. At Stratford, with 33012, presumably learning the way round North London from the Southern.

 

85-12-35.jpg.79a5423ed890de6eb5e46e2d4f35517e.jpg

 

Many thanks for including this photo. It reminder me of the day back in early 1980, as a secondman, l worked a saloon from Clapham over the North London line propelling all the way to the East region side of the city with a class 33. The Signal "aspects" were re-laid to the footplate crew via hand flags from the rear of the saloon.

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