RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted January 14, 2010 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2010 I'm quite interested in pushing the time period for my US layout back from mid 20th Century. The only 19th century locomotives I can find seem to be the Bachmann 4-4-0 American in various liveries. Are there any other RTR models or kits available? If the Bachmann model is the only one available has anyone ever converted it to DCC (is it split chassis etc)? Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Tony - there is a "John Bull"set ( one was on ebay two days ago), and a "De Witt-Clinton" both made by Bachmann - which would push the era way back. Mantua "Generals" appear on there quite often too. CM had an article 3-4-years back on an exhibition layout called something like "Keigthpatt Bay" set in that era with those locos and stock - someone might be able to supply you with a copy - you may even find something about it via google Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 John Bull Set on ebay 390010973376 - in fact several including spare cars and locos also do a search for De Witt-Clinton - there are several of them too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Over the years.......Mantua 440 "The General", Varney 440 and "Old Lady", Tyco 440 "The General", Pocher 440, Rivarossi/AHM 440, and loads of versions of these under various brand names, plus....... Japanese brass versions of various 440 loco types and Forney tanks etc....plus the Bachmann locos mentioned before. Red Ball and Ken Kidder plus several other brass makers have done 040 "Tea Kettle" early 19th designs in the past....collectors items and expensive.... Aristocraft made an old time 440 in brass finish(with plastic) in simpler style.(See attachment) Roundhouse made several older style locos in kit form, as did Kemtron in brass kits. Various "train sets" have been issued with 440's, and 260's usually re-badged AHM, made in Hong Kong, and 060 "Old Timer" generic design locos are supplied under Model Power and many other brands to this day. Stephen Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertiedog Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Sorry about the multiple images, unable to edit images due to current operational issues Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted January 14, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2010 Stephen and Jack. Thank you for the information. I'll keep my eyes open on Ebay. I'll probably start with the Bachmann 4 4 0 just to get going. If I'm going to put a decoder in it I hope it comes with the usual Bachmann exploded diagram! I hadn't intended to go back quite as far as the John Bull loco but it is tempting. Someone at the club described my locomotive collection as "eclectic" so it would fit in nicely! Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 260535998613 might be worth keeping an eye on Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 I have the remains of a 4-8-0 which I bought as a non-runner many years ago.....will dig out the remains and see if the maker's name is still on it....this was a turn-of-the-century-type model, big cow catcher, oil headlamp, etc....either Pocher or Rivarossi made a 2-4-0 as well...... a pity this was jmissed? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HO-Gauge-A-T-S-F-R-R-Loco_W0QQitemZ150403404519QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Trains_Railway_Models?hash=item2304bdd2e7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 My memory failed slightly on the spelling - The layout is called Keighpatt Bay and appeared at Ardenrail in 2007 - there are some photos here http://www.ardenrail.co.uk/2007_layouts.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
davknigh Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Ken Kidder also did a nice 2-6-0 in brass as a Porter Mogul some years back HTH David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Doesn't that Brazillian manufacturer do a 4-6-0 and a 2-8-0 that might be suitable? Quick google http://www.frateschi.com.br/produtos/locomotivas.php think they weren't that expensive. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Doesn't that Brazillian manufacturer do a 4-6-0 and a 2-8-0 that might be suitable? Quick google http://www.frateschi.com.br/produtos/locomotivas.php think they weren't that expensive. They have a tender diver (powered wheels in the tender that I wasn't really thrilled with. The boiler and engine looked pretty good for a 2-8-0. Bachmann Spectrum sells a 4-4-0 and 4-6-0 that are very good looking and pretty good runners but are sized for late 1890's early 1900's engines. You will have to backdate them to the 1890's-1900's since they are detailed out of the box as 1920's or 1930's engines (Except for Roundhouse, American model manufacturers think railroads were invented a few years after WW1.) I have been very happy with the Roundhouse "Old Timer" 4-4-0 and 2-8-0 RTR WITHOUT the sound decoder. I bought a sound 4-4-0 and it was horrible, I replaced the decoder with a dumb silent decoder and its one of my best runners now. They also make a 2-6-0. The AHM-IHC-Bachmann-Pocher 4-4-0 are basically the same engine, its a 1870's design 4-4-0 with the motor in the tender, so mounting a decoder will be interesting. Haven't tried it myself. There are also some Mantua/Tyco engines. The 4-6-0 is overscale, more S scale than HO. AHM also sold a 2-4-0 but it is also way overscale for HO. Some people have converted the 2-4-0 into an 0-4-0, which looks cool unless its next to a scale engine. I have played with the Mantua 4-6-0, replacing the tender and cab, narrowing the running boards, lowering the dome and sand box to creat a VERY large 4-6-0. I have found the key to the smaller engines is to improve the electrical pickup. Also check out Art Griffin decals, Silver Crash models, Alkem, B.T.S and LaBelle. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted January 14, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2010 Doesn't that Brazillian manufacturer do a 4-6-0 and a 2-8-0 that might be suitable? Quick google http://www.frateschi.com.br/produtos/locomotivas.php think they weren't that expensive. I've got the Bachmann Ma&Pa 4 4 0 and 4 6 0 that are from a similar time period I suspect to the Frateschi models (First quarter 20th century locomotives). It was a good job I didn't decide to model one of the 3 foot predecessors of the Ma & Pa or I'd be looking for old and HOn3 instead of just old! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted January 14, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2010 ... The AHM-IHC-Bachmann-Pocher 4-4-0 are basically the same engine, its a 1870's design 4-4-0 with the motor in the tender, so mounting a decoder will be interesting. Haven't tried it myself. ... Thank you! I decided to order one of the Bachmann 4 4 0. I'll report back how "interesting" fitting a decoder is. If I'm feeling brave at sometime in the future I may backdate one of the Bachmann 4 4 0 or 4 6 0 models. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave1905 Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 I've got the Bachmann Ma&Pa 4 4 0 and 4 6 0 that are from a similar time period I suspect to the Frateschi models (First quarter 20th century locomotives). It was a good job I didn't decide to model one of the 3 foot predecessors of the Ma & Pa or I'd be looking for old and HOn3 instead of just old! If you are modeling the Ma & Pa, the Bachmann Spectrum 4-4-0 (and maybe the 4-6-0) is based on a Ma & Pa engine. Its a very interesting (if ill concieved) railroad. One of those roads that didn't really go anywhere, or serve anything, but did it by the longest and most difficult route. 8-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 Tony - not sure what the loco in this set is supposed to be Ebay 300354111121 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 One I had forgotten - the IHC "Jupiter" Item number:300378482114 and a Tyco Item number:370318260784 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted January 14, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 14, 2010 Tony - not sure what the loco in this set is supposed to be Ebay 300354111121 I think it is the same one as the other one you found earlier today. All this search for an old loco started as I bought some nice coaches (from Ebay) but similar ones don't seem to been used with the locomotives I have. The passenger cars for the locos I have are on order but apparently have now left the factory and are on their way to the UK. Best wishes Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
298 Posted January 14, 2010 Share Posted January 14, 2010 If I were Tony, i'd have a pop on this auction: http://cgi.ebay.com/3-VINTAGE-HO-OLD-FASHION-ENGINES-POCHER-BUCHMANN-LIFE-L_W0QQitemZ260535846814 The red loco is a Pocher 2-4-0, and easily convertible to a 0-4-0, I have one stashed away for a small contractors loco project. Also at the 2007 Ardenrail show was Devil's Creek, from the turn of the century (top of this page): http://www.ardenrail.co.uk/2007_layouts.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 320475358329 320475360461 320475361532 all on ebay..Bachmann 4-4-0's.... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Pocher V&T 0-4-0 "The General" Item number:170432866724 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
alastairq Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Jack...am I seeing things ,or is the Pocher missing its dome? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 16, 2010 Share Posted January 16, 2010 Yes, but since it is being sold, untested, as is, etc - It might be worth buying as bits if it doesn't get priced out of reach - A brass dome replacement wouldn't/shouldn't be too difficult to turn up - even using an electric drill and needle files for those who don't have a lathe - or somebody might volunteer...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Tony_S Posted January 16, 2010 Author RMweb Gold Share Posted January 16, 2010 Thank you to everyone for all the suggestions. A 1870's style 4 4 0 is apparently on it's way to me according to the nice people at Model Junction's email. Also there is a documentary on American 4 4 0s on Rural TV (Satellite/cable) next Thursday afternoon. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shortliner Posted January 20, 2010 Share Posted January 20, 2010 Shame the site was down as there have been a couple of things on Ebay over the weekend - one was a Bachmann Lafayette trainset with loco and carriages. There aere also a couple of 4-4-0 locos with extra lostwax castings which looked rather nice. You might also be interested to see Bernard Kempinskis" in progress" layout at http://usmrr.blogspot.com/ Edit - the locos with wax castings are at Item number:300383811442 Item number:300378482114 Item number:300387443855 Item number:300382916641 Also a "Civil War" Trainset with a Jupiter loco Item number:300388442010 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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