dibber25 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 You have 4 seconds to make someone cross the store and pick up your magazine. I have said, at many meetings (and so have others) that a black and white cover would REALLY stand out amid all the colour mags on the news stand. Stand out, it might, but would it SELL? Which one of us would stake our job on that gamble? Not me! CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 A fussy cover with bits and pieces of pictures and information scattered randomly around puts me off a publication immediately, unlerss there is clear evidence of a highly relavent gem within. I would much rather see a cover that speaks "quality". The big red block and BRM letters don't speak "quality" at all but may well apeal to infants and Sun readers. Over-sharpened images with impossible, artificially produced, "infinite-depth-of-field" (from stacked images) also put me off completely, especially when printed in unrealistically "loud" colours. Added smoke-steam effects don't look like the real thing anyway and turn a good photographic study of a MODEL into something totally false. It is fair enough to take out a poor background and add a bland "sky", but in my view it should never be in the highly prevalent tropical sky blue! Articles showing how quickly a model of some sort can be flung together won't do anything to inspire the rising new generation of modellers to achieve standards that rival the very best. I say: 1. Make the photographs look like traditonally photographed reality, not like a hand coloured technical drawing. 2. Tidy up the front cover and concentrate on quality modelling rather than speed, gadgets, gimmicks and repeated articles on weathering. 3. Produce something that appeals to real modellers rather than tries to attract the interest of those shelf-browsers with only the attention span of a sex-starved gnat, who may well not have the "stamina" to stay with the hobby. I might then even consider buying a copy once again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I've had a good read of the 'new' BRM today - well, as much as I could (see below). Aside from the new decor, very little seems to have really changed. Phil Parker is, I reckon, a great addition. To use a phrase which 'Steve1980' might like, he 'brings real added value'. I would like to see this sort of thing developed. Does anyone remember Ian Flemings article on wagon building from the 1990s in BRM? Well I'd like to see him back writing in BRM in the same way as his articles from then would be a great follow on from the basics of wagon kit construction and how to then take it further to model specific prototypes and variations. And, of course, similar articles to follow on in other areas too. The typeface and arrangement of it isn't very good. From my blog - "The other problem I have, and to me this is a major one, is the choice of font. It's terribly thin and hard to read. I'm dyslexic, and for the most part I can get by (and this blog was originally to force me to 'write'!) but when thin, condensed typefaces are used it can be very difficult. And where this type continues over photographs it can be almost impossible to read. Which does spoil the experience somewhat... "If any Warners staff read this I would urge them to review their choice of typeface in future BRM issues." I know some people may not think this is an issue, but for many like me it is - and there are plenty of people with dyslexia and similar associeted things, but most aren't quite as open as I am - there is still a bit of a stigma attached to it sadly. Aside from the appalling typeface choice, not a bad issue Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Administrators Phil Parker Posted October 10, 2013 Administrators Share Posted October 10, 2013 Articles showing how quickly a model of some sort can be flung together won't do anything to inspire the rising new generation of modellers to achieve standards that rival the very best. [edit] 3. Produce something that appeals to real modellers rather than tries to attract the interest of those shelf-browsers with only the attention span of a sex-starved gnat, who may well not have the "stamina" to stay with the hobby. While "flinging" a model together (they aren't but we'll ignore that) might not produce Pendon quality results, the idea is that it persaudes modellers who otherwise wouldn't produce anything to have a go. To repeat the point I made earlier in this discussion, I spend a lot of time talking to people at shows and an awful lot of them point at whatever I'm displaying and say, "I don't have time to do anything like that." On that basis, they aren't going to "achieve standards that rival the very best" unless we mean the very best armchair dreamers. Define "real modeller". To me, anyone who makes a model is a real modeller. I don't care how good it is, I've always tried to encourage them. We all have to start somewhere. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave47549 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Legend Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2013 It's a good point about font and print size for those of us who are visually challenged and something the mags should give some consideration to. I do wear glasses but find my eyes become very tired on certain types of print. There are some adverts in mags I just give up reading now because of the strain. I think it's Kenow who have particularly small print in their advert, as a result I just don't read it any more Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Verityboo Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 While "flinging" a model together (they aren't but we'll ignore that) might not produce Pendon quality results, the idea is that it persaudes modellers who otherwise wouldn't produce anything to have a go. To repeat the point I made earlier in this discussion, I spend a lot of time talking to people at shows and an awful lot of them point at whatever I'm displaying and say, "I don't have time to do anything like that." On that basis, they aren't going to "achieve standards that rival the very best" unless we mean the very best armchair dreamers. Define "real modeller". To me, anyone who makes a model is a real modeller. I don't care how good it is, I've always tried to encourage them. We all have to start somewhere. I fully appreciate the idea behind the article and the reasons for it, I think it is an interesting idea to show what can be done in an evening The problem for me was that the article is presented on there and the Model Railways Live website as 'Two-hour Challenge – Phil Parker is tasked with building a Wills Coal Yard and Hut in just two hours! Can you?', This suggests that it is not possible without rushing and that in reality it can't be done to a half reasonable standard, the opposite of what the article wanted to portray. I hope the theme is continued, just make sure the headline announcements are tweaked Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2013 For dibber and king No p/shop I don't own a copy. changed to B&W and contrast pushed a little and a touch of sharpening in Picasa WYSIWYG My trainset, no additions. I was going to mail PMP this evening to ask if I might use a picture he took of my trainset to illustrate a similar point. No need to now - cracking shot Paul. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 First impressions. BRM To people of my generation those initials mean a Grand Prix motor racing team rather than any association with model railways. Font will need getting used to. Photos are not my cup of tea. The reviews however are top class, informative, sources quoted and easy to read. The proverbial curate's egg, but all praise to the team for taking up the challenge to try to bring it into the 21st century. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I fully appreciate the idea behind the article and the reasons for it, I think it is an interesting idea to show what can be done in an evening The problem for me was that the article is presented on there and the Model Railways Live website as 'Two-hour Challenge – Phil Parker is tasked with building a Wills Coal Yard and Hut in just two hours! Can you?', This suggests that it is not possible without rushing and that in reality it can't be done to a half reasonable standard, the opposite of what the article wanted to portray. I hope the theme is continued, just make sure the headline announcements are tweaked Totally agree and I said the same before on a earlier post . Why have set any kind of deadline . Surely the headline if any needed should be "A Beginners Guide to making Basic Modelling Enjoyable The First Steps" or similar titles which have been around for years. People if they were so minded could still say I havent go 2 hours to build something and ignore it anyway most of them probablyhave never been modellers or ever wanted to be. The "I havent the time" is a oldest excuse in the book to cover anything , from I havent got time to walk the dog ,paint the house or anything else that needs an excuse not to bother Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 And it appears that BRM isn't the only magazine undergoing a new look - http://sniffpetrol.com/2013/10/10/autocar-to-be-re-branded/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium t-b-g Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2013 I really don't have a problem with the BRM logo on the cover. It is the fussiness and sheer "in your face" mass of fonts, colours and different styles of presenting what is in the magazine. Even the B of BRM has its top edge obscured. It seems to me that just because a software package has the features to do such things quite easily, that they have to be used. Is there anybody who is willing or able to perhaps design a new cover, with the same logo, the same photo but with a neat and consistent list hinting at the contents as per MRJ? Logo top left, neat box listing contents top right and a photo without large chunks of it obscured by brightly coloured text, maybe even with a nice border and perhaps the layout name under the photo (or in a corner, but quite small) instead of plastered all over it. I don't have the skills to do it on a computer but I am sure somebody on here has. Then show us what it looks like and see what people think. Sometimes, less really is more and in magazine design I feel that a lot of people seem to have have completely forgotten this. A well presented cover picture will sell far more copies than any amount of what almost looks like graffiti. Perhaps the clean and uncluttered MRJ cover is one direct benefit from it being produced the old fashioned way, with real cutting and pasting. Any fancy lettering over the main image is really hard work and time consuming! As for using B & W, why not, if the image is attention grabbing enough? PMP's photo on the front of a magazine would have me picking it up to check out the contents, which is what a front cover should probably be all about. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dibber25 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 For dibber and king IMG_6676.JPG No p/shop I don't own a copy. changed to B&W and contrast pushed a little and a touch of sharpening in Picasa WYSIWYG My trainset, no additions. Agreed, it's a very nice picture. Would I use it on the COVER of a major model railway title? Sorry, No. CHRIS LEIGH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold mikes rail Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2013 Having read the mag the following comes to mind Cover, BRM means little Photos, very good indeed but please. Lose the smoke, it's a model we all know this so why try to hide it Articles in the whole good, a nice mix of layouts and how to do but fail to see the point in the 2 hour idea. It's a hobby not a race Reviews, again very good for the big items but then have always felt the Mr Wright is one of the best at this job. Overall page layout, clean looking but lose the stickers. I know that I need to turnover the page and that a model was before hand So overall, it does in a lot of ways look like a cone of Model Rail could we end up seeing the two of them becoming one at this rate? Would I renew my subs, it's not the mag I signed up to by a long way. Will need to see a couple more issues before making up mind. It needs time to settle down in new format. Mike Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 You couldn't pay me enough to be an Editor of a British model railway magazine..... Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave47549 Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2013 You couldn't pay me enough to be an Editor of a British model railway magazine..... Best, Pete. Same here Pete - but the 40% Income Tax would be even more of a hindrance in my case However at least we have this thread where we can voice our opinions on what seems to have turned into an amateur editorial panel (Andy Y, CJL, and Tony Wright excepted of course as they are professionals) . So far this 'panel' has made some great decisions - 1. It does/doesn't (delete to personal taste) like the new style BRM masthead, 2. It does/doesn't like the typeface (again delete according to personal taste), 3. It does/doesn't 'hit the right spot' in terms of the market it is aimed at (again delete according to personal taste or prejudice). So if Warners really want an 'in' on what the readers think I reckon their best bet is to read anything folk actually decide to put on paper and send to them via the tender care of Royal Mail (or whatever it's latest brand name is. PS I'm enjoying reading the content. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold RedgateModels Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2013 Or they could just copy RM rather than MR Nooooooooooooooooo! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium great northern Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted October 10, 2013 I've sent Andy Y a fairly long missive giving my views, which I won't repeat here, but the gist of it was that it isn't gimmicks that sell magazines, it is quality content, well presented. Some of the new ideas are just counter productive, and very wearing. Time and again we get "Please turn over for"..... As others have said, we are going to turn over the page anyway. But, at the bottom of Page 35, there is a neat little red arrow pointing me to the next page, and it appears elsewhere too. It does the job, quietly and efficiently, so why not leave it at that? Sadly, irritants like that tend to override the good stuff, and there is some. I found the actual content of this edition, ignoring the gimmicks and IMO dumbing down, to be better than for some months. It can't be easy to find sensible though innovative ways of making one magazine stand out from the crowd, after all every one is going to use a lot of the same material each month particularly when it comes to new products and reviews, but this facelift has in fact just made BRM look more like the competition, if one takes it just at face value. Clearly. a lot of people are, and so are never getting as far as discovering that the content is pretty good. To that extent, this "relaunch" has certainly been counterproductive. And the "hard sell" approach can be counterproductive too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I found this issue a reasonable read with good articles. I echo the points above about fonts/size. Careful consideration needs to be paid to these. And consistancy needs to be maintained too. Really should be sticking to the KISS mentality at all times when creating such works is my view, keep it clean, consistant, simple. Other than those points I'll look forward to seeing what the next issues have before deciding on whether my subscription continues". "which i'm having trouble updating details of as keep getting a runtime error on mrl site each time i try, having just moved. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gr.king Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I certainly don't think much to hard-sell. It immediately makes me wary and defensive as a potential customer. I've also noticed when acting as a seller that if I give the potential buyer a balanced view of the pro's and con's of a particular item of goods or service, with careful thought given to THEIR needs, they'll make a mature decision and possibly end up buying something well beyond anything you might have imagined you could persuade them to have. If it turns out not to be quite what they'd hoped for, you won't be blamed as you haven't led them on. If they like it, they'll recommend you to others because of your fair approach to the potential customer. If you make a big song and dance about your "outstanding" services or goods and then fail to deliver, you'll have shot yourself in the foot. The misled buyer will resent it and will say negative things about you to others, costing you further sales...... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 Of course the contrary view is of RMC, over here, that looks exactly the same as it did forty years ago - it was dated even then. At least they are not afraid to have long, detailed articles. Best, Pete. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 To that extent, this "relaunch" has certainly been counterproductive. I think it has - from a PR point of view within the RMweb audience the original announcement went appallingly. I think that it was annouced too soon; there was confusion over what the changes would be and even staff saying it was "amusing to watch some earlier presumptions" when readers and RMwebbers didn't have all the information to hand. Three months of waiting and anticipation are hard to live up to; this is regardless of the actual product too. The whole thing has, I think, highlighted the risk of the readership having such a close relationship with, and such easy access to, the publishers staff as exists here. Hard sell like may have been seen always strikes me as the bows of a failing organisation to be honest Very much so. I worry about a company that publically has a 'Brand Editor'. Many companies manage their brand very carefully indeed; in industry I've worked for a company which was very, very protective of its brand and what those outside the company saw. If this is done well then the customers, public, etc., will not be aware of this whole process. And seeing a massive rebrand from within (due to a change of ownership) was quite an enlightening process. And despite it being a poorly kept secret as those outside could see that the newly wholly Volker owned company would become VolkerRail in line with the rest of Europe, the actual announcement was made on the day of the relaunch! Far more effective. The silly thing is, the new magazine isn't that bad (typeface aside) but the way the relaunch has been handled will provide an interesting 'lessons learnt' session I suspect. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 10, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 10, 2013 If we are discussing current best practice then I have to say my current favourite mag is 'Narrow Gauge and Industrial Railway Modelling Review'. Beautifully presented, in-depth articles and superb modelling. A really cracking read. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 No shiny rosettes and stickers on the front though? Another simple but effective and stylish cover though! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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