69843's CAD/3D fiddlings

[69843]

Hello all,

Having always had an eye on the odd side of the railways, and having been teaching myself Google Sketchup (and taking a CAD corse), I am attempting to combine the two. Hopefully, this thread can keep track of some various projects for people to look at, and enjoy (or not, either way...).

My current (and almost done) project is the A1SLT LNER P2 #2007 'Will o' the Wisp'. I know Hornby is bringing out there own P2 and eventually will be doing this, but I could just not resist the challenge to do something a bit radical and big. After a few months of cursing, leaving it and coming back to work on it a few times, I am close to completion of the CAD stage. Many features proposed for the real engine have been included, such as the modified tender, 1936 straight sided cab, roller bearings and AWS boxes, just to name a few.

The model is to use a few propriatary items as well (such as a Hornby Tornado tender underframe, Alan Gibson wheels etc.), but will mainly consist of the 3D printed parts, including the locomotive frames. There is still a small amount of work to be done on it, but not too much.

I am very thankful to members of the A1SLT that have put up with my questions on the project, including Mark Allat himself. It is through the help of the members that someone from Australia who has only been to England twice (once that I can remember) has been able to do this as close as I feel I can get it to how the real one will be, without it having been built yet. Also, a thanks must go to both Matthew Cousins, who has given me a hand with some points, and Coldgunner for what I feel is an excellent name suggestion, at least until the real one is revealed.

Future project ideas include items such as the GWR 8 wheel tender, Metropolitan Railway E class, W1 'Hush Hush' in original form and the 'Peppercorn P2', plus the occasional Australian-related HO item, and shall be included here as they are worked on. If anyone also wants to suggest an idea, I'm welcome to hear them.

[Guest]

This I like and will be watching closely. I see you're also 3D Printing the frames which makes you the second (I think) rmweb-ber to go down this path. I'm considering doing the same with my own project - somewhat stalled at the moment due to lack of time. Do you foresee any problems and what material will you be using for them?

[69843]

This I like and will be watching closely. I see you're also 3D Printing the frames which makes you the second (I think) rmweb-ber to go down this path. I'm considering doing the same with my own project - somewhat stalled at the moment due to lack of time. Do you foresee any problems and what material will you be using for them?

I shall be using ABS plastic for the frames (and actually, the whole build).

 

This will certainly be a heck of a test for both 3D printing frames and my skill level (this will be my first attempt to print something). If the frames fail, I shall change to etched brass with details added, but if it works it will mean spares are easier to make and that designing frames for other engines could just become a bit easier.

 

Something I did forget to add is that the tender shell should be a near straight fit onto the Hornby chassis, meaning that it could be useful for others that might want the tender.

Edited October 9, 2013 by 69843

[AJ427]

Wow you're certainly throwing yourself in at the deep end with this project but it's looking good so far. My 3d printed chassis (and body) for my J50 is currently having a test print done by Shapeways so I'll have an update in a few days hopefully as to how the frames are working (or not).

[Vonzack]

Hi 69843,

 

A very impressive model, I'll be interested to see how you get on.

 

Good luck, Mark.

[Wild Boar Fell]

Hello 69843,

Looking very impressive indeed so far, just be cautious of the blue sides on some parts giving you a few issues when uploading or checking. Selecting the surface then right clicking and hitting reverse face should solve that though.

Any chance of a shot of the front of the loco? As I am interested to see how you have managed it.

Keep up the good work,

Regards,

Wild Boar Fell

[69843]

Well, all I can say is thanks for all the encouraging words guys. I will keep everyone in the loop on how it goes.

 

WBF, will this do for you?

(the holes in the bufferbeam are to accomodate Markits sprung buffers)

[69843]

The holes for the handrails have been started on the model, with the cabsides and the tender done, and now just the main and secondary handrails need fitting to the boilerside and firebox. The length of the holes had to be shortened from 1.5 to .6mm on most of them due to the thickness of most areas, but the ones at the base of the cab are full depth.

 

Edit: I forgot to include the fact that the holes are .8mm wide, which means they had to be manually done (Sketchup only allowing 1mm or wider holes).

 

Loking back over it, some detail parts may need to be etched, but I will come to that hurdle at that point.

Edited October 10, 2013 by 69843

[ben racey]

You can use White detail for the frames from shapeways, and it seems to work fine - certainly for a couple of 4-6-0 tanks I've done. If your budget will stretch, i-materialise will print you them up in brass - though it's going to be pricey if you do.

 

Regards

 

Richard.

[69843]

You can use White detail for the frames from shapeways, and it seems to work fine - certainly for a couple of 4-6-0 tanks I've done. If your budget will stretch, i-materialise will print you them up in brass - though it's going to be pricey if you do.

 

Regards

 

Richard.

Thanks for pointing that out Ben.

 

I am currently planning to have it printed at a company in Sydney (in ABS), but if it doesn't work out I will keep that in mind. And I just checked the prices-you wern't kidding about the brass!

[69843]

Well, changing topic off the P2 for a minute, I do have another, easier project I have been working on in the background:

It is 60019s second water tender. This is planned to be a near-straight drop on to Hornby A3/A4 tender frames, with only the minimal of modification to the frames. I will be placing the corridor through the centre and adding other details, but I am stuck with the water filler area, not being able to find a clear shot of the filling point.

 

And, whilst on the subject of water tenders...

 

This is SWT5, one of two 45' water gins owned by the NSWRTM. These are old 40' tanks mounted on van underframes with a pump fitted to the end, to allow the water to be fully utilised. While no plans exist, I shall be down at Thirlmere soon, so hopefully can start on it then. This is a project that has been on my list for a while, and has now had a few requests to be done for other people as well.

Edited October 10, 2013 by 69843

[Rabs]

Edit: I forgot to include the fact that the holes are .8mm wide, which means they had to be manually done (Sketchup only allowing 1mm or wider holes).

 

 

Ah the stupid fact that Sketchup has an absolute scale reference.  Why shouldn't I be able to draw a 10 micron circle if I want?  I can understand having a limited ratio of minimum radius to maximum radius in a single model but to just have a blanket minimum radius of a certain number of mm is plain stupid in software.  Also, you can create a circle larger than the minimum radius and then scale it down to less than the minimum without it complaining.

 

As a general rule Sketchup doesn't cope well with little things.  It suffers lots of bugs like camera clipping, points not merging correctly and faces dissappearing.

 

As I model in 2mm I hit these problems a lot.  I now model all of my models in meters where 1m in sketchup = 1mm on the actual model, then scale down by 1000 right at the end (or, even better, in a separate bit of software).

Edited October 12, 2013 by Rabs

[69843]

Ah the stupid fact that Sketchup has an absolute scale reference.  Why shouldn't I be able to draw a 10 micron circle if I want?  I can understand having a limited ratio of minimum radius to maximum radius in a single model but to just have a blanket minimum radius of a certain number of mm is plain stupid in software.  Also, you can create a circle larger than the minimum radius and then scale it down to less than the minimum without it complaining.

 

As a general rule Sketchup doesn't cope well with little things.  It suffers lots of bugs like camera clipping, points not merging correctly and faces dissappearing.

 

As I model in 2mm I hit these problems a lot.  I now model all of my models in meters where 1m in sketchup = 1mm on the actual model, then scale down by 1000 right at the end (or, even better, in a separate bit of software).

Thanks for that Rabs

 

The absolute scale thing is certainly annoying (it must be fun in 2mm scale!), and is something I shall definitely be avoiding in the future. I will have to try out that trick of re-scaling a circle in the future. Weird, isn't it.

 

The P2 and the water tender are made to scale at the moment, but I certainly am planning to make the rest of my items in full scale to make it easier. The other good thing about full scale is being able to take the item and print it in different scales all together.

 

Thanks again for the tips.

[QRModeller]

You can also use the offset tool to get a smaller radius circle which is what I did when I drew this (simply because I could):

 

 

 

 

Just offset the difference between the min 'allowed' radius (or whatever you've drawn the circle at) to what you need it to be.

 

 

 

Matt.

[Penrhos1920]

The P2 and the water tender are made to scale at the moment, but I certainly am planning to make the rest of my items in full scale to make it easier. The other good thing about full scale is being able to take the item and print it in different scales all together.

 

Beware of drawing full size and reducing down for printing.  Shapeways are getting tough and rejecting models where small detail is less than their resolution.  Also wall thickness can be an issue.

[Kelly]

looking good. will keep an eye out for that Met E

[Rabs]

 

 

Beware of drawing full size and reducing down for printing.  Shapeways are getting tough and rejecting models where small detail is less than their resolution.  Also wall thickness can be an issue.

 

 

Agreed.  I don't draw the prototype - I draw the model (with whatever thickness compromises I need) but pretending that 1m in sketchup is actually 1mm on the model avoids the silly radius problem.

[69843]

Here you are Kelly...

 

It's slow going due to other projects being a priority, and details being hard to find in Aus, but with a hand from the London Transport Museum, it is progressing.

 

This one will hopefully be made available if I have enough people say they have an intrest. There is still a small problem I have encountered which will have to be rectified, that being the wheel arches currently only able to be used with P4 or EM, due to clearances between the arches and the smokebox wrapper.

[thegavs]

Am also working on a met E class, but in a larger scale to be made out of etched brass. My next step is to try to get plans from the london transport meuseum. how helpful have you found them to be?

 

will open up a met e class thread once i get a few pics of what i have so far soon.

[69843]

Am also working on a met E class, but in a larger scale to be made out of etched brass. My next step is to try to get plans from the london transport meuseum. how helpful have you found them to be?

 

will open up a met e class thread once i get a few pics of what i have so far soon.

LTM was very helpful.

 

They supplied a basic line drawing, and also a drawing from one of the books on LU surface stock. They said that they could copy the plans, but that would require a small bit of cost as they have to go to the depot, find them, check that they are the right ones and copy them. As of yet I haven't needed this, but I may do it in the future when I get serious with it again.

[Etched Pixels]

Transport for London are generally very helpful. They also fall under the "freedom of information" act so they've put a lot of basic material up as one easy answer to an FoI request is "it's already public, go away" 8)

 

Alan

[69843]

Right, due to school, volunteering and a birthday, the CAD has been moving slowly for a bit. Time to rectify that!

 

The NSWRTM water gin has been started, but will take a fair bit of time until it is anywhere near done:

 

More work on 2007 has been done, with the firebox/cab and cylinders being the main focus area now. Note to all-always build the firebox BEFORE the cab!

 

And now being worked on, a set of Stones Electric Marker Lamps for LNER locomotives thus fitted, with gap for 1mm LED/standard bulb in the rear and a correct 0.7mm hole in the front for the 'lens'. The single one is done, with the double just being two singles side by side.

Edited October 31, 2013 by 69843

[69843]

Well, another week, another update.

 

The P2 has had little work done, so no updates there.

 

Next up, something Australian again. A friend contacted me in regards to designing a NZBF ballast plough that could be 3D printed, based off a kit he had. After passing on the kit and a couple of afternoons work later, this is the result, about 95% complete (just the brake actuator to put in). This one will be available soon to any interested parties, with both designs available separately  and a twin pack also available with one of each design. Bogies, details etc. will need to be purchased/made separately. There are two versions: The 'winged' version (shown below) which has small, wing-like platforms off the side and the non-winged version, which has straight sides.

 

The LNER pattern Stones Marker Lamps are now almost ready to order as well. They are just awaiting one final touch-up to the design. There will be 20 in a standard pack, which means that two models with the 5 lamps per end, such as a B1, can be done or two 4 lamp locomotives, such as an A2, can be done with two spare lamps.

 

Now, as to my next move, I have several locomotive plans, but not a clue where to start. So, I shall leave it to everyone to suggest which one I should start on. The plans include:

Dunrobin and Coach 58A (58A to be done later)

GER N7

LMS 6399 Fury

GWR The Great Bear

SECR P

GWR 4700

 

All bar Fury would need frames, cylinders etc. built, and most tenders are already available. Fury is planned as a straight drop onto Bachmann parallel-boiler Royal Scot frames and valvegear. I also have plans to do 6170 British Legion at a later point.

Edited November 8, 2013 by 69843

[HSTFAN13]

Hey,

Just read though and I see you need help with the water tender, 60019 water tender was 4472 flying Scotsman water tender and if you type 'flying Scotsman water tender' in google you should find pictures, also on 'BBC Archives' website there's a video of flying Scotsman replicating a non stop run to edingburgh and in this video it's shows the water tender from the top looking at the water filling point.

Hope this helps,

HSTFAN13

[69843]

Hey,

Just read though and I see you need help with the water tender, 60019 water tender was 4472 flying Scotsman water tender and if you type 'flying Scotsman water tender' in google you should find pictures, also on 'BBC Archives' website there's a video of flying Scotsman replicating a non stop run to edingburgh and in this video it's shows the water tender from the top looking at the water filling point.

Hope this helps,

HSTFAN13

Thanks for that.

 

60019s tender is actually a rebuilt body, but I am also doing Scotsman's one later, so thanks for the help mate.