Prototype ready for manufacture

[sml1983]

Finally finished my second attempt and making a P4/OO scale BR 1 Bogie.  Would like any advice on what the best solution is to turn this into reality as I am very much a newbie to this.  Any help and advice is greatly appreciated.

[sml1983]

I've been considering trying my hand at getting custom plastic kits made for the true variety of BR Mk 1's that were built.  I have already made a start on the bogie and have posed questions to members regarding fabrication elsewhere on this forum.

 

What i'd like like to know is would there be any interest from fellow modellers about the possibility of making these available to purchase to others also?

 

The BR 1 Bogie

This will be a fully sprung axlebox version using 0.010 guitar wire.  It has 4 different variants available on the sprue:

Double Bolster with NEM Pocket,

Single Bolster with NEM Pocket,

Double Bolster without NEM Pocket

and

Single Bolster without NEM Pocket

All above variants would be able to make use of the wheels supplied or can take wheelsets from proprietary brands.

[sml1983]

Just got a quote back from an American company.  Don't think this includes packaging

[Kelly]

$37 almost for 1 bogie just doesn't seem viable cost wise.

 

Also, wouldn't it be better to omit the wheels as they'd be better running wise being metal?

[sml1983]

The Underframe

 

 

The Underframe needs total reworking due to a couple of inaccuracies and I haven't yet checked the direction of the normal but thought i'd post it to give some idea of the detail.

 

[sml1983]

I know. I almost fell off my chair when I read it.

 

if I wanted to bring costs down I could do specific versions and not include the repeated recurring parts.  The idea was to make it as simple as possible.  Eventually i'll have at least 7 different bogies, 2 different underframe lengths and over a hundred different carriages, so thought the fewer sprues to keep track of the better.

 

The wheels I included for modelmakers that wanted to make a static model.

[AJ427]

Nice modelling but have you considered making it as a one-part item and (as Kelly has said) using 3rd party metal wheels? Essentially you've drawn it very much as a plastic kit and there is an awful lot of sprue there that you are paying for. One of the advantages of 3d printing is that you can print complete objects without having to construct them later.

[jonhall]

You have designed it as an injection moulding, but want to 3d print it - the two are quite different.

 

If you want to 3d print, then do 4 different files, with/without NEM each with a bolster spring option.

 

Ditch the wheels - nobody who wants a sprung bogie will want to make it static, and I find it hard to believe that anyone who wants a static model will want anything more sophisticated than the already available rtr.

 

You can also ditch most of the sprue, although your point about keeping 'sets' together is valid, its only true if you are holding stocks - why would you do that if it can be printed to order and sent direct to the customer by the printer?

 

On a practical note, have you given enough space behind the wheel to allow a set of wheels to be squeezed in during fitting? it looks very tight to me.

 

I would expect anyone who wants a sprung bogie might also want a more detailed inside frame.

 

On the other hand if you want to go the route of injection moulding the parts look right, and it becomes a question of a high set up cost, that could be divided across a large number of very cheap parts, but I still don't really see a market for that.

 

Jon

[Miss Prism]

Distance between bogie sideframe? How and where does the 0.010" spring locate?

 

I suspect you might also need more or larger sprue feeds to the sideframes.

[Dazzler Fan]

Quite right, this is designed for injection moulding.

My suggestions:

1. There is a lot of waste here.
2, minimise the cut-away sprue - material and the box size it will fit are expensive.

3. get rid of the wheels - alternatives will be cheaper

4. minimise the central plate.- not all necessary for the structure

5. some detail might be better in FUD.

 

The suggestion to have the whole frame printed as an integral item

is a good idea - otherwise consider Evergreen sections where they can

be easily used.
 

There are several similar examples on Shapeways for you to learn from.

 

Noel

[Miss Prism]

Is this thread duplicated?

 

(Mods, please merge.)

[dave_long]

If using shapeways I'd suggest setting your location to the UK, they have a base in Holland. Its easier than dealing with the US!

 

Unless your kits are going to come in under £20 then I'd struggle to see people purchasing your kits over those made by southern pride.

 

But if you do go a head good luck to you.

[Mod6]

Is this thread duplicated?

 

(Mods, please merge.)

 

Two very similar topics merged - I realise one is about production and the other marketing but they are both heading in the same direction and to have both in parallel would end up in confusion.

[Pugsley]

If you did want to go down the injection moulding route, it might be worth speaking to these people:

http://www.protomold.co.uk/

It might be expensive though, I have no idea on the costs.

 

HTH

[Revolution Mike]

Rather than design two different versions for NEM pockets why not just have the NEM pocket as a clip-on/glue on part?

 

You really need to decide are you going to use injection moulding, 3D print (direct use) or 3D print as a master and then cast. I seriously doubt that Shapeways FUD will give you high enough quality or durability for P4 wheels so if printing I would use existing manufacturer's wheels.

 

Cheers, Mike

[Mallard60022]

Would sides just be a better option to allow folk to use existing 'middle bits'? It's the accurate sides that would be popular I should think?

Less waste too.

P

[sml1983]

Distance between bogie sideframe? How and where does the 0.010" spring locate?

 

I suspect you might also need more or larger sprue feeds to the sideframes.

The overall bogie dimensions are 56mm L 30mm W 9.7mm H.  The wire passes through a first hole on the solebar then will pass through the axlebox, in a yet to be positioned hole, and then passes into a recess. The whole is then locked in place by attaching the solebar to the central piece.

The axleboxes slide onto the side pieces and so to allow them entry onto the piece, the tie bar is a separate piece.

[sml1983]

Would sides just be a better option to allow folk to use existing 'middle bits'? It's the accurate sides that would be popular I should think?

Less waste too.

P

Are the middle bits accurate though or do they have to be adjusted too?  Obviously some models will be more accurate than others but if some of the projects on here are evidence then even rtr models need detailing and adjusting.

 

What I wanted to achieve are scale renditions for every diagram vehicle in the 'British Railways Mark 1 Coaches' book by Keith Parkin.  I've never been able to find many variants of coaches on the internet and until earlier today had never heard of Southern Pride so saw a possible niche in the market that I thought I could possibly help fulfil.

[sml1983]

If I wanted to make this as a complete piece, how could it be made to allow the axleboxes to move?

[RhBBob]

If using shapeways I'd suggest setting your location to the UK, they have a base in Holland. Its easier than dealing with the US!

 

Unless your kits are going to come in under £20 then I'd struggle to see people purchasing your kits over those made by southern pride.

 

But if you do go a head good luck to you.

 

Good choice of strong, flexible plastic and Shapeways - they will always credit you and re-print if there are any errors or warping in construction.  I have tried fancier materials from their range in 1/45th scale and I wonder how tiny components survive !  The clue to the cost lies in both using the Holland office - so no extra taxes - but more importantly remembering that Shapeways have to fill a printer bed so a larger order will certainly result in a cheaper price per unit. 

 

The same argument goes for UK 3-D printers such as Chris Ward at http://www.chrisjward.co.uk/index.html

[ben racey]

If you use White Strong and Flexible as a material, you will get some fiexibility in the material and some spring effect.

 

Agreed with earlier comments, there's a lot of material in there. You should be able go get the bogie into the range of eight to nine euros in WSF.

 

Regards

 

Richard.

[Dazzler Fan]

Rather than design two different versions for NEM pockets why not just have the NEM pocket as a clip-on/glue on part?

 

 

 

 

The costs of producing 3D printed models is sorting out the "Men from the Boys", where discerning

modellers have their own ideas on couplings, and are coming forward with other valuable suggestions.

 

All my future models will have NEM boxes on a sprue.

 

Noel

[Etched Pixels]

For N I just print the NEM box into the bogie.

 

My experiences on the bogies are that for 3D printing you might as well just build them as a single part. However if its long and thin then you definitely want the ends modelled to stop them spreading.

 

The artwork looks good - not sure how much you would lose in WSF, but the quality won't be anything like if you go the injection moulding path.

 

For 3D printing you can also save yourself a lot of material (and thus dosh) if you do things like replace the big solid block in the middle with structure so it's mostly open (or model the real bogie structure). In 3D print a lot of suppliers don't charge for empty space and there is no assembly overhead for getting detail right.

 

Also for the wire recess make sure you can clean it out somehow - it will be full of wax on the print as the print cleaning doesn't get rid of wax in narrow crevices. Providing you can get at it to get it out (or just ram the wire in ok) all should be fine.

[sml1983]

Been working on the bogie for the last couple of days.  Inner detailing is coming on but slowing down now as the normal need checking as some are all over the place.  Here's a shot of the progress so far:

[ben racey]

Looks very nice. Not sure if the very small wire? links at the ends will come out, you may be better off designing a socket so you can use an appropriate piece of wire in there, for strength, instead of printing it.

 

Regards

 

Richard,