RMweb Gold farren Posted October 15, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2013 thought this might be of interest wonder how long before it's on a tread on hear http://news.sky.com/story/1154919/3d-printing-metal-parts-that-are-fit-for-space Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbat Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 I've seen some 3d printed test pieces at work, looked great. From a modelling perspective, imagine when they can print in colour too! Log on to Hornby.com, download and print a loco or two. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Celticwardog Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 Yes and then you will be able to get them modified, weathered, super detailed and everything else that makes modelling fun therefore sucking the life out of the hobby completely and making the only good modellers those with CAD skills, whoopee. Sarcasm aside 3D printed metal, how is that done. Surely its not layers of liquid metal? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted October 15, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 15, 2013 That is amazing IMO. Interesting info here Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben racey Posted October 15, 2013 Share Posted October 15, 2013 There's some 3d printed brass connecting rods on the end of my thread. Seems to work well, pricey though! Regards Richard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Good old Sky News - posting an article about a technology that was invented in the 80s and claiming that it's 'news': http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selective_laser_sintering (link also explains how it works) Note that this isn't how shapeways do their brass, gold and silver printing. For these they print in plastic/wax and then do investment casting to get the final metal piece. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hello I have been doing alot of research on this (and 3D printing in general) for work. The ESA thing is announcing that there is a group of people going to look at producing a machine capable of that sometime in the future. Sadly it means that it will be out of the reach of mortal modellers for a while yet. The only 'personal use' machine that uses metal I have come across so far is the 'Vader' http://www.vadersystems.com and this is still very much in development, as Rabs says the likes of Shapeways / iMaterialze etc use lost wax casting to produce the metal parts. Missy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 I've seen some 3d printed test pieces at work, looked great. From a modelling perspective, imagine when they can print in colour too! Log on to Hornby.com, download and print a loco or two. Well, that will make present rip-off Hornby prices seem amazingly cheap……………... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 The only 'personal use' machine that uses metal I have come across so far is the 'Vader' http://www.vadersystems.com and this is still very much in development, as Rabs says the likes of Shapeways / iMaterialze etc use lost wax casting to produce the metal parts. The iMaterialise titanium is laser sintered, all the stainless steel offered by both companies is done by metal power being 'glued' together and either filled with bronze, or in the case of Materialise's high detail stainless, heat sintered in an oven. But you are correct in that all the gold, silver and copper alloys are lost wax cast. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Yes, and the non-lost wax metals struggle with fine details from what I've seen. One area I'm interested in is printing a resin with metal powder in it. That way you could end up with a 'green' metal part, the same as you get from a Metal Injection Moulding process: http://www.custompartnet.com/wu/metal-injection-molding. The nice thing here is that you basically need the same kit as for lost wax casting, so you can play with both methods with the same equipment and a small kiln and a tub of solvent are feasible for home use. It might even be possible to do this with the printer I already have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Note that this isn't how shapeways do their brass, gold and silver printing. For these they print in plastic/wax and then do investment casting to get the final metal piece. Hmm. Any idea how simple this is? Do Shapeways modify your submitted model to optimise the sprueing and gating for casting, or is it a question of iterating at your own expense? The Nim. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nimbus Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hello I have been doing alot of research on this (and 3D printing in general) for work. Some people have all the luck! The Nim Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hmm. Any idea how simple this is? Do Shapeways modify your submitted model to optimise the sprueing and gating for casting, or is it a question of iterating at your own expense? The Nim. Sorry, I have no idea about the details of Shapeway's process other than what they publish on their website. I suspect (hope) that their staff would tell you if the model you send it isn't compatible with casting. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hmm. Any idea how simple this is? Do Shapeways modify your submitted model to optimise the sprueing and gating for casting, or is it a question of iterating at your own expense? They fix sprues to the model a clean them off afterwards, but I haven't had anything made in raw brass to see how well they clean up the pieces. The polishing on a piece I had done at iMaterialize was over done with most of the sharp edges rounded off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 SpoorObjecten had loco cab in Shapeways Brass in his 'Dutch 3D printed items thread' the other day Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ben racey Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 Hmm. Any idea how simple this is? Do Shapeways modify your submitted model to optimise the sprueing and gating for casting, or is it a question of iterating at your own expense? The Nim. Imaterialise produced my connecting rods using the same file as shapeways had produced it in wsf. Regards Richard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted October 16, 2013 Share Posted October 16, 2013 There are plenty of people who investment cast using conventional home 3D printing gear. You can cast metal at home, you just have to be slightly crazy http://www.plansandprojects.com/My%20Machines/Gravity_Extruder/GE2.html The lost wax/pla/etc casting also has huge advantages because there are some very very complicated problems to do with fatigue modelling, stress and un-evenness in sintered material. You can also cast some metals in 3D printed moulds Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
raymw Posted October 24, 2013 Share Posted October 24, 2013 If you want to cast whitemetal, that is quite feasible in your kitchen (having obtained the necessary approvals) - stainless saucepan on the stove, silicone rubber mould. Casting brass or aluminium, you need a bit more heat, so mould needs to be sand or investment. A one off, treat the plastic 3d print as wax, burn it out, or take a rubber mould to make waxes if you want a run. A vacuum cleaner can be useful - blow to power a coke furnace, suck to vacuum assist the cast. Wear cotton or woollen clothing, and don't tuck your trousers inside your wellies. (more info here - needs a bit of editing - http://yertiz.com/cnc/lost%20wax.pdf Best wishes, Ray (edited to add link) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheesysmith Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 I wounder if the 3d metal printing would be useful for steam loco wheel? Combined with a plastic axle with a flat edge to ensure it dont slip and is alined correctly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Not when casting is so much cheaper, see pages 5&6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 Bill - that assumes the wheels you want exist and are of interest to anyone else. A bit of a problem in small scales like N especially if you want large outside crank wheels, or some of the older pattern wheels. I am pondering trying printing some brass RP25 wheels with half-axles via Shapeways for this reason. Hopefully if its lost wax it'll stay true enough while I'm rather dubious sintered stuff would. Worst case make the tyres a shade overside and skim them in a lathe. Be interested to know if anyone else has tried this yet. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 27, 2013 Share Posted October 27, 2013 There is no distortion, or shrinkage, with direct lost wax casting. But Shapeways' 0.8mm minimum wire thickness is going to make for some chunky 4mm wheels. The other thing you will have to look out for is where they put the sprues and how well they clean them off. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 Agreed on the wire thickness. May have to go for non see through wheels which would be a shame but still better than no wheels at all. Alan Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 You can cast spoked wheels, but you have to sprue to both the centre and rim. Perhaps you could thing of getting the waxes from someone like Protowax and using a normal lost wax caster. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 28, 2013 Share Posted October 28, 2013 I'm thinking of experimenting with getting some N gauge wheels cast in NS from masters from my 3D printer. I'm pretty confident that the printer is up to the job but I know nothing about the casting side of it. If either of you want to collaborate on a little test project then PM me and we can have a go. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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