DCC sound decoders for US diesels

[PhilM]

Absolutely new to sound and vey naïve when it comes to DCC generally. For an Atlas Master GP40-2 Phase 2 do I need a Loksound v4 NEM 652 or a  Select? And which is easier to fit and get going well (using a Powercab)? Thank you for your assistance!

[torikoos]

Hello Phil, either would probably work, but to judge this better do you have a picture of the loco with the hood removed so we can see the insides (unless someone here has this model of course).

 

A Loksound Select Direct is designed as being a replacement board for the circuitboard found in many modern HO locomotives, it would fit into an Athearn or Atlas in most cases with not too much trouble, hence the 'direct' bit.    

A Loksound V4 is a smaller decoder that plugs into an existing board inside the locomotive via the NEM652 connector, provided the board inside has one of course.

(hence my question of providing a picture).

 

Technically these decoders differ in that the V4 can be loaded up by custom sound projects and these projects themselves can be edited to suit a specific locomotive.

The Select Direct can also be loaded up with sound projects, but are less flexible in making changes to these projects. 

 

In either case however, if you specify at time of purchase what sounds you need inside, then the dealer will usually be able to load them inside before shipping it out to you.

If you want to do it yourself, you'd require a Windows based PC and the ESU LOKPROGRAMMER. Although i have one myself the learning curve is a bit steep , particularly if you're not that experienced in DCC yet, so best tell your dealer what you require and have him do the tricky bits :-) (or if you have access to someone else that can do it for you , then that would work too of course )

 

Both decoders have the same excellent motor controller and have sufficient connections for various light functions etc.  

 

They will both work absolutely fine with your Powercab system. Bear in mind that the brand of your DCC system is of little relevance, as long as both decoder and dcc system comply with the DCC specifications, they are compatible.  (there are a few exceptions, but if you steer clear of MRC branded articles, and MTH products, you will have no compatibility issues)

 

Of course ask someone (or here on the forum) if in doubt, I do, and I have learned a lot since.

 

If you want to learn about DCC in general, I suggest the following site:

 

http://www.wiringfordcc.com/intro2dcc.htm  

 

or  http://www.tonystrains.com/tonystips/dccprimer/index.htm ,

 

and lastly : http://www.x2011west.org/handouts/DCC-Basics.pdf

 

 

Koos

Edited January 25, 2014 by torikoos

[Alcanman]

Koos. Thanks for the useful info.  I'm also interested in installing a Loksound decoder and noticed that in additon to the Loksound Select Direct (board replacement decoder), there is also the

 

Loksound Select which is now  being installed by Atlas, Intermountain and Bowser in their factory fitted locos. Is the Select a plug and play decoder with pre-loaded sounds?

 

Mal

Edited January 25, 2014 by Alcanman

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi Phil,

 

There is a drop in sound board for the Atlas GP40-2 available from Soundtraxx.

 

It only takes 10 minutes to install the decoder then you need to find a home for the speaker.

 

I've changed the normal Soundtraxx speaker to a sugar cube one which fits into the cab.

 

You will also need to replace the lights as there is no room for the supplied lighting fittings.

 

I'm currently working on some new lighting boards to replace these but, due to other commitments, it's not progressing very quickly.

 

Thanks

Absolutely new to sound and vey naïve when it comes to DCC generally. For an Atlas Master GP40-2 Phase 2 do I need a Loksound v4 NEM 652 or a  Select? And which is easier to fit and get going well (using a Powercab)? Thank you for your assistance!

[torikoos]

Koos. Thanks for the useful info.  I'm also interested in installing a Loksound decoder and noticed that in additon to the Loksound Select Direct (board replacement decoder), there is also the

 

Loksound Select which is now  being installed by Atlas, Intermountain and Bowser in their factory fitted locos. Is the Select a plug and play decoder with pre-loaded sounds?

 

Mal

Hi Mal, the Select is the basically the same decoder as a Select Direct, but on the Direct it piggybacks on top of a larger circuit board that is designed to fit as a replacement board for Athearn/Atlas style boards. In that format it has nearly the same physical dimensions , very similar to a Tsunami board.

As a 'straight' Select it plugs in to the loco light board via an 8 Pin NMRA connector, which can be found on many manufacturers build in boards.

 

So my comments for the Select  Direct, other than the way it mounts/connects in your loco, are also valid for the Select. Specify which sound file you want in it (the numbers of the files are available on ESU's website) and your dealer should be able to load them for you. Try Coastal DCC ( http://www.coastaldcc.co.uk/products/esu/) 

 for example, Kevin there has given me good service for that sort of thing.

 

Koos

 

PS: Here's more on the Select:  http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-select/

Edited January 25, 2014 by torikoos

[Alcanman]

Thanks Koos. Looks like the Loksound Select Aux 6 is the one I'm looking for. They appear to be in stock at Coastal DCC and the drop down menu allows a choice of prime movers.

 

Mal

[torikoos]

Thanks Koos. Looks like the Loksound Select Aux 6 is the one I'm looking for. They appear to be in stock at Coastal DCC and the drop down menu allows a choice of prime movers.

 

Mal

That's correct there's a drop down menu , but if you find that the sounds you need are not listed, check the ESU website if it is available, if it is, they will happily load it for you, just give them the sound file number from the ESU website.  I did this for the non turbo EMD sound for an SW1500 I needed, and it's now part of the drop down list.

You'll also notice that his prices are very competitive. Normally ships within 2-3 days depending if you ask to load up sounds etc.

 

Koos

Edited January 26, 2014 by torikoos

[long island jack]

Mick at coastal dcc, did me a loksound select direct,for my Atlas RS1(new version),just finished fitting it, sounds superb,better sound and motor control than soundtraxx,just needs a bit of fine tuning on my mates decder pro.

 

Will do a video when sorted.

 

Ray

[Alcanman]

Thanks guys. Do Coastal DCC offer a sound fitting service whereby you post your loco to them and they fit the sound decoder and speaker?

 

Mal

[PhilM]

Mal yes they do http://www.coastaldcc.co.uk/services/decoder/index.php haven't used it yet myself but I intend to as they have been very helpful so far.

 

 

As for my question - thanks for all the advice. I don't have a working camera at the minute but the Atlas GP40-2 Master series is dcc ready with a large lump of metal to mount a circular speaker in.

So I am assuming that a loksound V4 NEM 652 with a 23mm speaker will be an easy fit? And hopefully wont have the lights problem of the Soundtraxx that PhilH is having? I did try fitting a non-sound TCS decoder but the 8 pin socket in the loco is next to some lumpy electronics and it wouldn't fit - so I am hoping that the loksound with its separate 652 plug will negate that problem

[Alcanman]

Thanks Phil.

 

I may use Coastal DCC as I'm not too confident with decoder and speaker installations. Let us know how you your GP40-2 installation goes. I also have one with a factory fitted QSI decoder  and

 

I'm not too happy with the sounds, so a Loksound replacement might be a good option.

 

 

Mal

Edited January 26, 2014 by Alcanman

[torikoos]

You could surely use Coastal for a fitting service, however if you know someone local (club perhaps) who can do it then that's also an option.

 

There are also several tutorials on line, it's not too difficult really, just need good lighting, a few basic tools, and a soldering iron. Which loco are you intending to take the QSI out of? 

 

If you have a look at the Soundtraxx website, they have instructions for many different types of locos on how to fit their decoders. In many cases these instructions would also be valid for any other brand of decoder. For example here's one for a GP 35 http://www.soundtraxx.com/documents/appnotes/athearn_gp35.pdf

 

And here's an overview page: http://www.soundtraxx.com/choose/step2.php?s=ho

Edited January 26, 2014 by torikoos

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

A search on YouTube finds videos showing how you can install most varieties of Sound Decoders in a variety of locos.

 

Whilst these are useful - some do miss small details that can make the difference between a working decoder and a cooked decoder.

 

Fortunately I didn't make the mistake of just doing as the video shows.

 

I benefit from having DecoderPro and Sprog available for checks prior to putting anything near DCC full power!

 

Thanks

[torikoos]

I've installed another Loksound Select decoder in my GP9, which I am working on. It is loaded with the newest version of Loksound's soundfile for the EMD 567 primemover, and I selected the M5 horn as prototypical for my particular project. 

The new sounds are great, and contain a primemover both with manual and automatic transition noises. (the manual version is best for the older locos using this engine, such as the GP9 and F7 etc etc), the automatic is very good for switchers amongst others.

 

 

The new sound files by ESU are really good, and the horn has fidelity, something sadly lacking from the otherwise great Tsunami sound decoders. 

Koos

PS: I am aware that the large SP lettering on the end of the long hood is incorrect. I merely applied them to trial my decal application, as the ladders were already fitted on both sides. It turned out I didn't have to worry as it went fine on both rear and front. I will remove these again, and apply the road number instead.

Edited February 24, 2014 by torikoos

[Alcanman]

Great sounds Koos.

 

ESU have also recently offered a new recording for their EMD 645 prime mover. They are producing some excellent sounds together with their renowned smooth motor control.

 

 

Mal

[torikoos]

Yes indeed, the EMD 645 sound is excellent too, I need to have another good look at that file to make sure a non-turbo version is among it (I'm not entirely convinced that's the case) , as then I can upgrade the sound in a GP38-2 that I have.  (edit: no this file is turbo charged only, so I'll wait a bit longer :-) )

 

Koos

Edited February 24, 2014 by torikoos

[Gary H]

Great sounds Koos.

 

ESU have also recently offered a new recording for their EMD 645 prime mover. They are producing some excellent sounds together with their renowned smooth motor control.

 

 

Mal

Soundtraxx really DO have something to worry about, that is impressive!

Horn sounds are certainly the best Ive heard, at last they have some beef to them!

The air dryer spirex valves Ive previously disabled on Tsunami's as its really just a vague 'stab' at the real thing but the ESU version is again much more like the real thing!

The notching features are also excellent!

Is that 'new' 645 sound file available now?

I also like that 567, timely as ive a new Genesis F3 A&B on the way in.

Edited February 24, 2014 by Gary H

[torikoos]

Hi Gary, yes that sound file for the 645 is available for download on ESU's website.

 

As for Soundtraxx, they do really need to step up now, they have been market leaders particularly in the North American scene, but the latest ESU efforts sees them gaining ground rapidly.

Apart from their flexibility, the ESU decoders also have the easiest to set up low speed control, something that Soundtraxx is lacking. They are capable of low speed control, but it takes a lot of patience to do.

 

I'm sure however, that Soundtraxx is working on it in the background, and will surprise us with a release of a second generation Tsunami decoder with upgraded sound and improved easier to set up low speed control.

 

If they can also get the average price of a sound decoder down (something valid for all manufacturers) then sound is within reach of so many more modelers. Currently it almost doubles the price of a loco, but if it adds 50 usd or so, then it's much more affordable. It can be done, Bachmann soundvalue already proves that lower cost sound is possible, without loosing much functionality or quality....

 

Koos

[Gary H]

Hi Gary, yes that sound file for the 645 is available for download on ESU's website.

 

As for Soundtraxx, they do really need to step up now, they have been market leaders particularly in the North American scene, but the latest ESU efforts sees them gaining ground rapidly.

Apart from their flexibility, the ESU decoders also have the easiest to set up low speed control, something that Soundtraxx is lacking. They are capable of low speed control, but it takes a lot of patience to do.

 

I'm sure however, that Soundtraxx is working on it in the background, and will surprise us with a release of a second generation Tsunami decoder with upgraded sound and improved easier to set up low speed control.

 

If they can also get the average price of a sound decoder down (something valid for all manufacturers) then sound is within reach of so many more modelers. Currently it almost doubles the price of a loco, but if it adds 50 usd or so, then it's much more affordable. It can be done, Bachmann soundvalue already proves that lower cost sound is possible, without loosing much functionality or quality....

 

Koos

Indeed, Sondtraxx need to work on their motor control and some of their on-board sounds, especially when it comes to horns!

Koos, tell me, do I need a programmer for an ESU though?

Im sort of thinking about getting one of their decoders but I would like it "already done" as it were and ready to plumb in!

Just got hold of a Genesis GP50 and I think this would be a good start for me using an ESU.

Thanks for any info for this ESU newbie!

[Alcanman]

Indeed, Sondtraxx need to work on their motor control and some of their on-board sounds, especially when it comes to horns!

Koos, tell me, do I need a programmer for an ESU though?

Im sort of thinking about getting one of their decoders but I would like it "already done" as it were and ready to plumb in!

Just got hold of a Genesis GP50 and I think this would be a good start for me using an ESU.

Thanks for any info for this ESU newbie!

Gary,the ESU Select range are available ''already done''.

 

http://www.esu.eu/en/products/loksound/loksound-select/ordering-information/#c2781

 

Mal

[torikoos]

Hi Gary,

 

As Mal says, yes you can get the Select Direct versions with sounds already loaded at the time of order. Do make sure your dealer loads it up for you, and may even be able to program your desired road number, function output assignments etc for you. Some of that is easier to do with the LokProgrammer, decoder pro works too, as do direct CV programming from your DCC system.  But beware, a decoder reset could also result in loss of the on board sounds, so only do such a thing as a very last resort. 

You then need access to a Lokprogrammer to reload the sounds.

As long as you know which sound you want loaded, (the ESU websites will tell you the sound file number for the decoder and primemover sounds you're interested in) and pass it on to your dealer, they can program it for you before shipping. (Coastal DCC does this for you amongst others).

 

Koos

Edited February 26, 2014 by torikoos

[torikoos]

Mick at coastal dcc, did me a loksound select direct,for my Atlas RS1(new version),just finished fitting it, sounds superb,better sound and motor control than soundtraxx,just needs a bit of fine tuning on my mates decder pro.

 

Will do a video when sorted.

 

Ray

Did you manage to fine tune your RS? Don't forget the ESU Loksound (V4, Select, and direct versions) decoder has an auto tune function, which will get you to about 95% of perfect  in most cases.  

 

Koos

[long island jack]

Koos

 

Yep,i used the auto tune,i'm happy with the settings,only think not sure about is the air release for the brakes,they release when it stops and again before it moves away,other than that i'm a happy bunny.

 

Hope this link works,if not just type NH RS1 into youtube search

 

 

Ray

[F-UnitMad]

Yesterday (Sat 18th Oct) I had my layout on show at a local exhibition; 1st time out with DCC Sound locos.

 

I had two locos with Soundtraxx Tsunami decoders and one with a QSI, & this thread has confirmed my experiences:-

The Tsunamis had great engine sounds, one EMD 567 & one EMD 645 Turbo. The QSI is Alco 244, but to me doesn't sound that much like the spluttering Alco RS's of the Batten Kill RR. But the QSI airhorn is a killer!! Clear, loud, plenty of reverb - the Tsunami horns were so poor in comparison that I eventually stopped playing them altogether - they were just an embarrassment!!

Now admittedly I also had done a bit of tweaking on the Tsunamis at home to try & improve the horn sounds, but sound at home & at exhibition is a very different thing. So I plan to do a factory-default reset of the Tsunamis & try again. If I can't improve the horns then I have bougbt my last Tsunami, despite the superior engine sounds to QSI.

Also I've found the QSI really hard to configure for good slow running. (using NCE Powercab - all I have)

Meanwhile at the Show someone recommended ESU, also I see mentioned on this thread!! One for me to investigate, it seems.

[Gary H]

A version 4 Loksound will totally blow you away.

If you thought Tsunami's had good engine sounds, your really in for a treat with a Loksound.

My first  ESU was an Intermountain SD40-2 with factory fitted ESU Loksound and Ive just got (well about 3 months ago now) an Atlas S2 switcher, again with factory fitted ESU Loksound. It is just fantastic and probably the most realistic model engine sound Ive ever heard and believe me, Ive heard a few!

I also read a lot of how an ESU decoder controls the motor and again it impresses in that aspect as well.

There is a delay of movement when speed step 1 is selected, the engine note rises before the model starts to move just like the real thing, they are simply gorgeous!!

All of the above was seen 'out of the box' without messing with any CV's except for the address!

Would I change out about a dozen Tsunami's for Loksound decoders?

If I could afford to, yes, I'd do it tomorrow.

 

Don't take much notice of video's on these sound decoders on youtube and the like as they just don't do them justice, you have to be there to appreciate how good they sound.

Edited October 19, 2014 by Gary H