RMweb Gold PhilH Posted February 22, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 22, 2016 I have to admit to a sort of 'battle fatigue' when it comes to decoders at the moment. Thinking that tsunamis were the way to go I fitted 5 of my locos with them. Trying to get them to run as I would like has been hard work though, even speed matching for consisting has so far proved a difficult, in one case an impossible, task. I will revisit playing with the sound aspect in time, but at the moment I'll just turn it down! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torikoos Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 I have to admit to a sort of 'battle fatigue' when it comes to decoders at the moment. Thinking that tsunamis were the way to go I fitted 5 of my locos with them. Trying to get them to run as I would like has been hard work though, even speed matching for consisting has so far proved a difficult, in one case an impossible, task. I will revisit playing with the sound aspect in time, but at the moment I'll just turn it down! Tsunami's are notorious for slow speed performance and speed matching, it can be done, but very labour intensive. (several replies in this thread will describe how to do so) Their cheaper 'Econami' range is a lot better in motor control, so I'd expect that the Tsunami will be updated in due course too. TCS WOW have very good motor control, as do ESU , which also have a great auto tune function, making set up a lot easier. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parthia27 Posted February 22, 2016 Share Posted February 22, 2016 Phil, I try to set the volumes of the locos I have such that they are matched to the size of the operating area and the characteristics of the layout operation. Rather than starting from higher volumes and lowering the sound of a loco I tend to go the other way, I start with a very low master volume. The sounds that really grate for me is the bell followed by the horn. Both these sounds get lowered even further until they are acceptable to my ear. Next I'll try two locos together to determine if they are each of similar volume. I adjust each loco to equalise the sound. If I have two or three locos or consists operating I only want to be aware of the sound of those locos operating near to me. Others should just be in the background and barely audible. Remember that European trains in general are quieter wrt horn usage and most do not use bells so we are not accustomed to a 'loud railway'. HTH Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torikoos Posted February 23, 2016 Share Posted February 23, 2016 . Remember that European trains in general are quieter wrt horn usage and most do not use bells so we are not accustomed to a 'loud railway'. Indeed, I'm so accustomed to viewing US railroads on video etc nowadays, that the trains I see and hear here in Europe almost sound comical and almost 'cute' to me, a bit like that rather annoying advert on the TV 'I am Train' , beep beeeeep! I wish we could fit our railways with a couple of Leslie or Nathan 5 chimes instead ;-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torikoos Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 (edited) I've just installed a Loksound Select in a stock Bachmann RS3. While I am mostly modeling SP, I do like the RS3 and it's chugging sound, so that was a 'fix' I needed to get. A cheap deal for an RS 3 from a german store sealed my faith, and the creditcard was applied. I've used one sugarcube speaker in the long hood. Here's a quick demo. Apologies for the looooong horn. I was operating this from the ESU programmer on the laptop, while filming it with my phone... Now comes the task of superdetailing it, weathering, and most importantly, find a (freelance) scheme that i can apply that makes it believable to work in Western USA, interchanging with the SP. Koos Edited February 26, 2016 by torikoos 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrossouw79 Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 Hallo! I am a recent convert from Soundtraxx Tsunami to ESU Loksound. My reasons: 1)You can load any sound file from the website onto you're decoder. 2)The sounds are really nice. 3)I can buy them from a local hobbyshop. So after uninstalling the 2 Tsunami's that I had and replacing them with Loksound V4.0 on a Atlas B23-7 and GP40-2 I went ahead and got the Lokprogrammer. With a few easy clicks I got them to run really smooth as expected however when I press the F9 button to notch up one notch the prime mover just keep going until it reaches notch 8. When I try and notch down with F10 nothing happens. Is there something else that needs to be changed to activate it and make it notch up and down correctly? I am using a NCE Powercab as a throttle. Cheers! Jacques Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
F-UnitMad Posted February 26, 2016 Share Posted February 26, 2016 I've just installed a Loksound Select in a stock Bachmann RS3. While I am mostly modeling SP, I do like the RS3 and it's chugging sound, so that was a 'fix' I needed to get. Koos Must admit to the same, after watching the Batten Kill RR's RS3 videos on YouTube The Loksound has nailed that sound!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torikoos Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) Hallo! I am a recent convert from Soundtraxx Tsunami to ESU Loksound. My reasons: 1)You can load any sound file from the website onto you're decoder. 2)The sounds are really nice. 3)I can buy them from a local hobbyshop. So after uninstalling the 2 Tsunami's that I had and replacing them with Loksound V4.0 on a Atlas B23-7 and GP40-2 I went ahead and got the Lokprogrammer. With a few easy clicks I got them to run really smooth as expected however when I press the F9 button to notch up one notch the prime mover just keep going until it reaches notch 8. When I try and notch down with F10 nothing happens. Is there something else that needs to be changed to activate it and make it notch up and down correctly? Jacques hi jaques, I have had the same, In my case I had the function buttons programmed as 'latching', so with one press they stay active (similar as for lights), while you want just a pulse (like horns ), so check if that isn't the case? it will not notch down, as long as F9 (notch up) is still active for example, whichever was first. you can change that fucntion button latching behaviour within the programmer software. give that a try first. As for reasons for changing, you could also add the ease of which you can acchieve smooth (slow) running, without having to spend hours tweaking CV's. Thanks to CV54. In case you didn't know about the auto tune function. in POM mode Set CV54 = 0 , leave POM mode and press F1 (probably the bell), the loco will 'shoot' of for about 3 feet and then stop, the bell will ring a bit (as you had pressed F1 after all, or whatever other function is on F1 will happen) and the loco is now calibrated. Edited February 29, 2016 by torikoos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrossouw79 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Thank you Koos. I will have a look at what setting that function buttons is set to. When I read thru this thread one of you're earlier post's was about CV54 and it came in pretty useful when I did not have the Lokprogrammer. Directly after installation you can just quickly use this method to test you're loco's slow speed performance. One thing that I might add is that the combination of Atlas locomotives and Loksound decoders are really nice, at least for me that is. The B23-7 in CSX colours are so smooth and quite(when sound are muted) that I have decided to sell my other loco's and get two more Atlas models. One BNSF GP38-2 from j-t prantle on ebay and a BN GP40-2 also from ebay. Now to save up for two more decoders! Cheers! Jacques 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torikoos Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 (edited) Jacques, if the settings appear ok, it may also help to read ESU's manual notching guide for some pointers, to get you in the right direction. The manual is on this page: http://www.esu.eu/en/downloads/instruction-manuals/digital-decoders/ The important bit from that manual reads as follows: 2 function keys are required for MN to operate, one key for notch up, and the other key for notch down. MN can be engaged when the model is standing with engine running, or engaged on the y after moving o in the normal manner. When standing, press notch up, engine will notch up the drive RPM sound as determined by each drive step in the project. The number of notches increased depends on how long the key is engaged, and when the key is disengaged it will hold the notch it settles at. (With a little practice you will be able to “time” your desired notch.) You can then use the down notch key and reduce notch, or engage until RPM settles at idle. While running, operation is the same; engine sound is fully decoupled from locomotive speed, so you can now simulate the full spectrum of locomotive operation just as you can observe by watching operating prototype locomotives in action on the rails. Once you have engaged MN it stays in eect until the locomotive is brought to a stop, AND the sound is brought down to idle. Then the operation reverts to normal pre-manual notching behavior Hope that helps. Koos Edited February 29, 2016 by torikoos Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrossouw79 Posted February 29, 2016 Share Posted February 29, 2016 Thank you Koos. I manage to get the up/down notching to work. Need some practice with the controller now Cheers! Jacques Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gary H Posted February 29, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 29, 2016 What I do at home is in general turn the sound down by a fair amount, particularly on prime movers and bells (They carry a long distance...). Horns I leave somewhat louder so that they are still audible over the prime mover. Also here I apply 3ft rule. I don't want to hear it (the loco) that clearly if it's 3ft or more away, but audible when near. Further get good speakers that have a balanced output as in just as much low as high. They are small, so nothing will rumble, but the perception is sufficient. If you're short of space inside, use a 'sugarcube' design, or a derrivative, there's more versions available almost every month now. Lacking those, if the decoder has EQ settings, roll off (reduce) the high frequencies , don't boost the lower too much as that will generally lead to distortion, leave them be, just adjust the higher ones to suit. That should largely take care of the 'scratchiness' of the sounds, which you'll find is probably the issue that makes you 'tired' of listening. Koos Zimo sugar cubes are excellent. They seem to sound better than speakers 4 times their size, not sure how that happens but they sound better than those 18mm Bass reflex things or the stock Athearn speakers. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRMTvaiBaaU Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torikoos Posted March 1, 2016 Share Posted March 1, 2016 I agree Gary, they're usually less scratchy sounding. IF there is a downside to them, is that they can distort easier, so the volume values need to be reduced a bit compared to others. However that doesn't mean they are less loud per-se , and still more than loud enough for home use. I like them. I've recently installed 2 in one loco, and I saw Brian Banna install 4 in a GP35, it sounds great! :-) 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000 Posted March 14, 2016 Share Posted March 14, 2016 (edited) After aquiring a Proto 2000 E7 A unit with factory fitted QSI sound I then managed to get another Proto 2000 A and a B unit but both DC. Decided to try the TCS Wow sound in them and found a big difference in the sound to the QSI. So after watching several videos on the WWW of E and F units out came the QSI and in went another TCS Wow sound. I've done the calibration as individual units but would it be better to do it as the consist of the 3 units together as that is how they will run most of the time. Edited March 14, 2016 by 10000 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torikoos Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 After aquiring a Proto 2000 E7 A unit with factory fitted QSI sound I then managed to get another Proto 2000 A and a B unit but both DC. Decided to try the TCS Wow sound in them and found a big difference in the sound to the QSI. So after watching several videos on the WWW of E and F units out came the QSI and in went another TCS Wow sound. I've done the calibration as individual units but would it be better to do it as the consist of the 3 units together as that is how they will run most of the time. If they don't fight each other then yes perhaps, but be aware that with WOW sound decoders, calibrating them does someone else too. It fine tunes the sound response to the actual load the motor is experiencing. When more amps are drawn due to starting a heavy train, the RPM sounds will increase. That's why they advise to do the calibration while pulling your heaviest train, or up a grade (or both). Doing with 3 units at once would mean they all weigh in and the response of RPM sounds won't be until much higher speed steps/loads as they don't need to work so hard. Therefore, I'd still calibrate them one by one, if you want to be able to enjoy the sounds (which is why you put sound decoders in them in the first place) and speed match them afterwards. hope this makes sense? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
10000 Posted March 16, 2016 Share Posted March 16, 2016 If they don't fight each other then yes perhaps, but be aware that with WOW sound decoders, calibrating them does someone else too. It fine tunes the sound response to the actual load the motor is experiencing. When more amps are drawn due to starting a heavy train, the RPM sounds will increase. That's why they advise to do the calibration while pulling your heaviest train, or up a grade (or both). Doing with 3 units at once would mean they all weigh in and the response of RPM sounds won't be until much higher speed steps/loads as they don't need to work so hard. Therefore, I'd still calibrate them one by one, if you want to be able to enjoy the sounds (which is why you put sound decoders in them in the first place) and speed match them afterwards. hope this makes sense? Thanks for that it makes a lot of sense. I have calibrated them individually up a temporary grade pulling a rake of open hoppers loaded with bolts , nuts and screws to give plenty of weight and they have been speed matched as close as i can get them. The question about doing them as a consist was because I read something somewhere (may have been in TCS docs.) that for locos that will be in a consist you should calibrate them at the same time. Up to now I have got 4 UP passenger coaches, hopefully eventually I can increase them to 10 or 11 in the mean time I'll make do with the 4 and the 9 CP passenger coaches I have. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torikoos Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 I'm not sure, it can be done as a consist I'm sure, and the realism would be that they won't ramp up so much as they share the load, but the truth is that most cars are too light, even at NMRA recommended weights , to start having an effect until the train is getting rather long, and that's something not a lot of us have space for (your situation may be different of course). So for the typical layout size and train lengths I'd stick with individual calibration to actually be able to hear the effect of loading up the locos, but if you have a large layout or run long trains that have additional weight in them, then calibrating in a consist is also an option. I like Mike Confalone's approach to weights. I do something very similar. A 50' box car I increase to approx 200 grams, using wheel balancing weights that have a sticky backing. a 10 car train then weighs 2kg, and the locos have to work harder, the effect of mass in operations is more noticable, and the whole thing runs smoother. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted March 18, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 18, 2016 Anyone tried econami decoders yet? I was wondering what the motor control was like as more and more that's what is most important to me. If they are like tsunamis for this then I'll give them a miss. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torikoos Posted March 21, 2016 Share Posted March 21, 2016 (edited) Anyone tried econami decoders yet? I was wondering what the motor control was like as more and more that's what is most important to me. If they are like tsunamis for this then I'll give them a miss. I have installed one sofar in a Proto2000 GP9, the motor control is a huge improvement over the current Tsunami's. Other functions are slightly limited , and it doesn't have the reverb/delay processors (it does have EQ), but some of the sounds have also been rerecorded or reprocessed as the horns don't sound as lifeless as they do on Tsunamis either. I'd suggest to try one out. Even Soundtraxx is aware of the issue, so much so that they're advertising the fact that the motor control has improved with this video, personally on the GP 9 I have, it runs even slower. Add some momentum and that slight 'jerk' from standstill to moving, is not noticeable. Edited March 21, 2016 by torikoos 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted March 21, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 21, 2016 I have to admit I have ordered a steam sound version for Bodge. Anyone who knows me knows I have a deep dislike for steam decoder sounds, however as the trainset is loosely based around the late steam/ diesel transition period I won't be running exclusively one thing or the other. I thought it would be a bit strange to have noisy diesels and silent steam, hence the order. I fitted a couple of the steamers with Digitrax decoders but, in my opinion, for both sound and motor control they are dire. I proved this as far as motor control is concerned by dropping a Lenz standard decoder into the worst running loco. It was transformed from abysmal to practically perfect. So I'm heartened by your comments regarding motor control with the Econamis. We shall see. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alcanman Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 Not sure if this has been poster earlier, however, Soundtraxx has now announced the end of their Tsunami decoders with the Econami being the replacement. http://tonystrains.com/its-official-soundtraxx-announces-end-of-tsunami/ Mal Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted April 1, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2016 (edited) Further to my earlier post, and not diesel related, I have installed the Econami decoder in a steam loco. It's impressive, unfortunately I don't need any more sound decoders for the diesel fleet. Might now have to buy another loco just to see what the Econami (yes iMac it is e-c-o-n-a-m-i, please let me write that) diesel version is like... Edited April 1, 2016 by PhilH Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold PhilH Posted April 1, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted April 1, 2016 Not sure if this has been poster earlier, however, Soundtraxx has now announced the end of their Tsunami decoders with the Econami being the replacement. http://tonystrains.com/its-official-soundtraxx-announces-end-of-tsunami/ Mal Hopefully the price now won't creep up to Tsunami levels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
torikoos Posted April 23, 2016 Share Posted April 23, 2016 New Features coming to the ESU Loksound sound files soon, here's a demo video: 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Gary H Posted May 20, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 20, 2016 New Features coming to the ESU Loksound sound files soon, here's a demo video: That is a striking similarity to the operation of the Zimo decoder in the current 4mm Sutton Locomotive Works Class 24. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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