DCC sound decoders for US diesels

[TTDB]

Cool thanks pretty cheap the MRC 1619 £48 inc post )

[torikoos]

My personal thoughts (your mileage may vary) is to do some research on that MRC decoder before you 'jump' in and purchase one.  MRC in the past haven't been exactly reliable, and have (had) some quirks programming too. They are cheap, that's true, and if that's all you can afford then perhaps its the best choice for you. If you can spend more, I think one of the other brands (Soundtraxx, ESU Loksound, TCS Wow-Sound or QSI Titan decoders) are probably of  a better quality and more widely used such that there are more people that could help you answer a question if there's ever a problem.

 

Just my 2 pence. 

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all.

 

It appears to me that the difference in price for the various makes of sound decoder ties in with the ability or lack of when it comes time to program the thing!

 

I initially just bought whatever prime mover/power unit sound from whoever did it.

 

I've come to regret that - but I learned a lot in the process!

 

So - Yes - Buy the best you can afford is a good start point.

 

However, once you get more into how it all works and what they can do, then the cheaper decoders loose out - Big Time!

 

My MRC decoders can only do a third of the later decoders from Soundtraxx, TCS, Zimo, ESU can do and it's not as high a quality sound.

 

As this lesser result comes for slightly more than 1/2 the cost of the more expensive decoders - save the money and buy the better decoder.

 

It all makes sense in the end....

 

Thanks

[Alcanman]

I agree with the comments above and can add that Athearn originally used MRC sound decoders in their Genesis range.Problems with both sound and motor contol are well documented on US dcc forums.

 

Consequently Athearn switched to Soundtraxx Tsunami which can be found in all new releases. For those buying on e-bay beware of older Genesis sound fitted locos.

 

Mal

[TTDB]

As advised done done research on the MRC mostly on YouTube and certainly see why they are so cheap, the speaker provided is simply too large to even fit into the loco body so more expense straight away, will look at others

[jaym481]

Posting here on advice. I hope it's the correct thread.

 

I have an HO loco recently purchased used that has a QSI sound decoder on board. I think it's a Revolution V7, but I'll post a pic tomorrow and maybe someone can ID it for sure.

 

In any case, the issue is that it seems to start up ok, but when I give it a little throttle it cuts out. I'm running it with an NCE Power Cab. The PC is 2A, so I wonder if it may be a case of excessive current draw? The loco cuts out and won't re-start consistently - sometimes it'll restart when I select a function, and sometimes it has to be taken off the track and replaced. The PC doesn't show any signs of a short, and the loco is recognized on the programming track, though I haven't tested functions there.

 

Any ideas?

 

The loco is Intermountain, and the decoder is a board replacement, not a plug in.

[jaym481]

I guess not. Can anyone recommend a US-based forum which might be able to help?

[Scottish Modeller]

You might want to provide people with more time to respond than 24 hours. Not everyone comes here every day.

 

Do you have any friends with DCC? If you can run the engine on another system, then you have eliminated the replacement board as a fault. Better still, if you can run it on a 3A PowerCab, you will know that the issue is power consumption.

 

There are many US forums ou could visit: but you will be asked the above questions first, so if you have prepared answers to them, it will help.

Hi all,

 

In support of what Simon says....

 

Have you removed the board and tried the loco on 12v DC?

 

If the loco runs on DC - you have a faulty sound board.

 

Do you know anyone who has a Lenz 90 or 100 set?

 

These usually have 5a power supplies and should be able to handle the power requirement of the QSI Revolution.

 

The power consumption you have given seems high - Revolution are only supposed to take 2a in stall condition - not running condition.

 

Link to manual:-

 

http://media.wix.com/ugd/0f7119_1b253f400cf946eb9c036681bd56b43a.pdf

 

Thanks

[jaym481]

Thanks for the responses. Fair point on patience. I should have given it a bit more than the 48 hours. I sometimes forget that my own schedule isn't necessarily follwed by anyone else.

 

I don't know anyone near me with a DCC setup. I can give it a try on DC - the decoder is supposed to work on DC, so I could try that. I can't remove the board though, as it's second hand, and I don't have the original DC board. I do have the manual, but there was no help there, though it's quite different from the one linked (and the board looks somewhat different as well). I'll dig into that link and see if there's something that might help. There's a local club that I've been meaning to attend, though just haven't made the time. perhaps this can provide impetus (though I hate to think I'd join the club just to solve my little problems).

 

I'm very new to all this. When I abandoned model railroading nearly 40 years ago there was no inkling of DCC. It's made the layout wiring part of my re-entry into the hobby easier, but there's added complexity elsewhere. I wonder if a decoder tester board might be worth getting?

[Scottish Modeller]

Thanks for the responses. Fair point on patience. I should have given it a bit more than the 48 hours. I sometimes forget that my own schedule isn't necessarily follwed by anyone else.

 

I don't know anyone near me with a DCC setup. I can give it a try on DC - the decoder is supposed to work on DC, so I could try that. I can't remove the board though, as it's second hand, and I don't have the original DC board. I do have the manual, but there was no help there, though it's quite different from the one linked (and the board looks somewhat different as well). I'll dig into that link and see if there's something that might help. There's a local club that I've been meaning to attend, though just haven't made the time. perhaps this can provide impetus (though I hate to think I'd join the club just to solve my little problems).

 

I'm very new to all this. When I abandoned model railroading nearly 40 years ago there was no inkling of DCC. It's made the layout wiring part of my re-entry into the hobby easier, but there's added complexity elsewhere. I wonder if a decoder tester board might be worth getting?

Hi Jay,

 

The secret is to avoid rushing to do everything at once!

 

Not rushing allows you the luxury of time to check things before acting. With DCC this may save you lots of money!

 

So - you have a loco with a DCC QSI Decoder that was a 'plug n play' after sale add on.

 

If it is a Revolution one it should match the manuals in the link I gave.

 

Remember that QSI 'standardised' their manuals so that one does all.

 

The standard Intermountain board should really have been supplied with the loco when sold. I guess not all sellers do this - I certainly supply the old board with any sound fitted loco that I sell on.

 

You don't need the board anyway to test on DC.

 

It's back to the good old basics that applied when you gave the hobby up before.

 

One side of the pickup wires goes to one side of the motor and the other goes to the other side.

 

If the wires have been cut short - just use a temp length of wire to connect them.

 

I think this should be your priority.

 

If the motor works on DC without taking loads of power - your decoder has a fault.

 

If the motor does not work - you have found your problem.

 

Thanks

[jaym481]

Well, a bit more investigation seems to indicate it's an OEM board and was factory fitted at Intermountain. The version is Quantum V7, which seems to be the version just before the Revolution variants. Because it's an OEM board, there isn't much available from QSI, though I managed to find a few scraps on a couple of other sites. I have the manual for the board, but not the product sheet for the loco, which is supposed to have some other info.

 

Here's a photo of the board:

 

I did manage to do a software reset of the chip, as that's worked for me with a couple of other used locos with decoders that weren't performing well, but no luck with this one. It looks like I'll have to do as you suggest and take the board out and see if it runs on DC. If it's a duff board is there any way to repair them?

[Scottish Modeller]

Well, a bit more investigation seems to indicate it's an OEM board and was factory fitted at Intermountain. The version is Quantum V7, which seems to be the version just before the Revolution variants. Because it's an OEM board, there isn't much available from QSI, though I managed to find a few scraps on a couple of other sites. I have the manual for the board, but not the product sheet for the loco, which is supposed to have some other info.

 

Here's a photo of the board:

 

I did manage to do a software reset of the chip, as that's worked for me with a couple of other used locos with decoders that weren't performing well, but no luck with this one. It looks like I'll have to do as you suggest and take the board out and see if it runs on DC. If it's a duff board is there any way to repair them?

Hi Jay,

 

OK - Yes it looks like a QSI decoder to me! With stay alive capacitors to avoid loss of sound at railbreaks.

 

Don't think it's factory fitted as I cannot find any reference from Intermountain showing that they do this.

 

The product sheet would have given you the specific CV settings and functions used for the decoder on this model.

 

Most of the details are on the Intermountain website.

 

http://www.intermountain-railway.com/ho/loco/holoco.htm

 

This includes CV and other settings.

 

Doing a full reset on a sound chip isn't recommended as you will loose any 'special' CV settings that were set up for the loco.

 

I would try the loco on DC - see if it works, check what power it uses and if it's still using too much power - suspect the motor.

 

If it doesn't take a lot of power - suspect the chip.

 

Most DCC Sound chips turn out to be unrepairable - replacement is normal. But - there are exceptions!

 

Thanks

[jaym481]

Thanks Phil.

 

The OEM reference is in the QSI documentation I have, and mentions Intermountain. Perhaps they did it a while ago? In any case, thanks for the link to the IM product sheets. I need to work on my Google-fu to find that stuff myself.

 

I'm going to have to see what I can do to remove the board and connect the pickups, as the wires have plugs, and my soldering skills are currently at the stage where I no longer burn myself every time I fire up the soldering iron. The wires look a bit fine for the current state of my eyesight, so I'm reluctant to remove the plugs.

 

Could a duff capacitor have the described effect? My limted knowledge of electronics includes some dabbling in hi-fi, and faulty capacitors can have all sortes of odd effects in my experience.

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi Jay,

 

The decoder does not have plugs - they look like they are though!

 

They should be slip over plastic things that trap the wires against the circuit board to make the required contact.

 

Taking the decoder out will get round any possibility that there is a duff capacitor - it would be most unusual if there was.

 

Of course - if you are up in Scotland next weekend - bring it along to the Perth Exhibition and we can have a look at it for you!

 

Thanks

[torikoos]

Looking at the above, I think this is a loco that is in need of a bit of maintenance.

 

I'd suggest to check all electrical connections as what you describe may very well mean poor pick up from one or more wheels (perhaps one entire truck) .  If you can , see if this loco relies on the chassis to conduct power. If so, solder wires to the trucks and hardwire as other types of electrical connections will become less reliable over time. Are there any shorts, solder points that touch another or even the loco chassis somewhere?

On top of that the high current could also mean that something is binding. I suggest to clean all gears and relubricate them.  I recently had a locomotive that had not run for ages, and stalled when I tried it. I investigated the reason and found one worm gear that had dried up grease. But I never expected to need pliers to get it removed, that's how hard the grease had become, so don't underestimate this factor!

 

motor brushes, dirt excessive carbon etc, could all be factors too. 

 

I think if you start at the basics, like others have suggested, you may have a good chance getting this loco back to life. 

[jaym481]

I'll take a closer look at the "plugs." They do look very much like 2 pin plastic plugs fitted to a socket, and all fit straight down onto the board. You can see what looks like an unused male socket near the capacitors, and another multi-pin one at the opposite end of the board just beyond the chip. The wire ends look exactly the same (another reason I thought this might be a factory application).

 

It definitely needs basic maintenance, and maybe more than seems apparent. I'd have expected different behaviour though - rather than a shut-down of DCC functions I'd have thought poor performance. 

 

At the moment I'm having a hard time stringing together the time I need to look at this in any great detail, but hopefully I'll get some time soon.

Edited June 22, 2015 by jaym481

[torikoos]

A shut down of DCC functions can very well be because something else is draining power and the microprocessor doesn't get sufficient, causing errors. 

 

Indeed, start with the basics, and then go from there, one step at the time. I appreciate it might take time, but there's no rush is there? This is supposed to be a hobby :-)

 

Let us know what you find.

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi all,

 

All of a sudden - as if my comments about MRC decoders had travelled down the wires to a loco - I have an odd problem with an MRC decoder.

 

MRC 1633 Brilliance sound - Diesel EMD Modern

 

I can program this on every DCC system or programmer that I have available.

 

But - as soon as it comes off the track - it forgets all the programming and reports back as DCC address 0.

 

Any one got any ideas - or is this one to send back or bin if it's not accepted as a return.

 

I bought it more than 30 days ago - hence my comment about not being accepted under the returns policy.

 

Thoughts?

[torikoos]

30 days return (buyers remorse...) , if you don't want the product. (in an unopened, unused package etc.. all those caveats) 

I'm sure there is a manufacturers warranty that lasts longer (usually a year?)  and could see the product being repaired or replaced with an equivalent.

Edited June 24, 2015 by torikoos

[Scottish Modeller]

30 days return (buyers remorse...) , if you don't want the product. (in an unopened, unused package etc.. all those caveats) 

I'm sure there is a manufacturers warranty that lasts longer (usually a year?)  and could see the product being repaired or replaced with an equivalent.

Hi there,

 

I've checked with MRC on this...

 

If bought direct - 30 days is in the t&c when you agree to purchase.

 

I asked if this applied to a retailer in the UK.

 

They advise that the 30 days applies from the date the retailer recorded the sale.

 

Thanks

[torikoos]

Ok thanks. In any case the 30 days is the period of time that you had a chance to return the item if you decided you didn't want it after all, for whatever reason. You should still have warranty on the item you might be able to get it repaired under?

 

Koos

[Scottish Modeller]

Hi Koos,

 

I've asked the question...

 

No reply from MRC or from the trader who supplied it.

 

Will see what happens next.

 

Thanks

[torikoos]

Hi Phil, will this help?  http://www.modelrectifier.com/resources/trainSound/warranty%20procedure%20all%20train%20products.pdf

 

According to that, it could be 6 months. 

[torikoos]

Soundtraxx has now released a budget version of the Tsunami, the 'Econami' (their marketing department must have spared no expense..)

It very much follows the same philosophy as the WOW sound decoders (several choices of prime movers in one package), and it's fairly cheap, it's yet another option for those on smaller budgets, or first steps in sound perhaps? 

 

http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/econami/index.php

Edited July 13, 2015 by torikoos

[F-UnitMad]

If it's as "fussy" as ordinary Tsunamis, & stalls & drops the sound & lights at the slightest whim, where other chips keep going (even without KeepAlive) then Soundtraxx can keep it as far as I'm concerned. I have bought my last Tsunami.