DCC sound decoders for US diesels

[Zomboid]

Does anyone have a suggestion for a GP60? I'm totally green on dcc (and most other things), so just what to look for would do as a start...

[alastairb]

Does anyone have a suggestion for a GP60? I'm totally green on dcc (and most other things), so just what to look for would do as a start...

The GP60 has an EMD 710 engine. I have a Walthers Proto 2000 GP60 and fitted it with a Soundtraxx Tsunami board replacement decoder. Agree with other posters that the Tsunamis have good prime mover sound, but motor control isn't quite as good as say Loksound. Not sure about the horn sounds I dont press F2 that often.

Hope this helps

PS if the decoder prime mover sounds familiar it's because a GP60 has the same engine as a Class 66.

[Zomboid]

Does a gp60 Ying like a 66 does?

[PhilH]

http://www.soundtraxx.com/dsd/tsunami/playsound.php?s=emd710

[Zomboid]

Thanks guys, plenty of induction noise going on there, at least on my phone speaker.

[CraigZ]

What about the air horns? Tsunami have good engine sounds, & with a lot of tweaking can be got to crawl well, but to my ears the horns are pants compared to TCS Wow & ESU Loksound

 

Some of the Select sound files now have a 'cast P5' horn on them...in other words, a horn that I will always associate with the Southern Rwy here.

[craig]

 I have 2 Athearn Genesis with Tsunami sound on board the sound they produce is reasonable but the LokSound seem so much better and I don't think they have all the functions that a separately fitted decoder would have, what I am really asking is it better to purchase a locomotive then install the sound or get one that has been factory fitted?  

 

Thanks Craig

[roundhouse]

Factory fitted sound can often be the best but it comes down to personal choice aswell as the type of decoder and sound recordings for each loco.

I find the Tsnami decoders superb even in my factory installed Athearn N scale Amtrak F59PHi's. Loksound do allow for far more customisation of the sounds by third parties though.

However one area that is often let down is how well the speaker has been installed. Some have built in baffle boxes but it's not sealed. Generally easily fixed with some canopy glue or even PVA rood glue and once the baffle box is sealed it often results in much better sound especially on diesels.

Edited December 28, 2015 by roundhouse

[PhilH]

I find that sometimes it's not a good thing to keep 'upgrading' sound decoders.

 

Let me explain...a while ago I was happy with factory installed QSI sound...then I installed a couple of Wowsound decoders, which I was more than happy with but which made me less than happy with the QSI sound.

 

Then I installed some Tsunamis which I was even more happy with but which made me.....

 

You get the picture.....

[Gary H]

I find that sometimes it's not a good thing to keep 'upgrading' sound decoders.

 

Let me explain...a while ago I was happy with factory installed QSI sound...then I installed a couple of Wowsound decoders, which I was more than happy with but which made me less than happy with the QSI sound.

 

Then I installed some Tsunamis which I was even more happy with but which made me.....

 

You get the picture.....

I'm at the same juncture. Started with QSI about 8 years ago.

Now I'm debating weather or not to change out all the Tsunami's I have with Lok sound and / or wow sound.

Unless I win the lottery, that wont happen any time soon

[CraigZ]

I'm at the same juncture. Started with QSI about 8 years ago.

Now I'm debating weather or not to change out all the Tsunami's I have with Lok sound and / or wow sound.

Unless I win the lottery, that wont happen any time soon

 

I've been going thru the five New York, Ontario & Western F units to which I fitted Tsunamis and been replacing them with Loksound.  I prefer the sound and the motor control.  I can sell the Tsunami decoders for $55-60 which offsets a lot of the cost of the Loksounds.  The Intermountain NYO&W FTs come with Loksounds; my Kato NW2s have been fitted with Loksounds. 

 

Steam, on the other hand....  After having experienced the TCS WOW steam decoder I installed in a Proto 2000 0-8-0 I think that the Broadway Limited Paragon 2 and 3 decoders pale in comparison.  I've already replaced two of those (which takes a complete gutting of the locomotive's electronics.  The gutting also removes the whoopee smoke generator.  The first Paragon3 (a PRR L1s 2-8-2) took about five hours total which included the exploratory surgery and tracing/metering out of the loco and tender wiring.  But the net result is a locomotive that runs superbly and sounds much much better.  I might start a topic on that showing what I found and the replacement installed.

[Gary H]

I've been going thru the five New York, Ontario & Western F units to which I fitted Tsunamis and been replacing them with Loksound.  I prefer the sound and the motor control.  I can sell the Tsunami decoders for $55-60 which offsets a lot of the cost of the Loksounds.  The Intermountain NYO&W FTs come with Loksounds; my Kato NW2s have been fitted with Loksounds. 

 

Steam, on the other hand....  After having experienced the TCS WOW steam decoder I installed in a Proto 2000 0-8-0 I think that the Broadway Limited Paragon 2 and 3 decoders pale in comparison.  I've already replaced two of those (which takes a complete gutting of the locomotive's electronics.  The gutting also removes the whoopee smoke generator.  The first Paragon3 (a PRR L1s 2-8-2) took about five hours total which included the exploratory surgery and tracing/metering out of the loco and tender wiring.  But the net result is a locomotive that runs superbly and sounds much much better.  I might start a topic on that showing what I found and the replacement installed.

I would love a few BLI steamers but those dam paragon sound decoders put me right off!

I will even consider buying one and rip out their decoder but its yet to happen!

Saying all that though, their I1SA loco I used to own wasn't all that bad.

[F-UnitMad]

If it's as "fussy" as ordinary Tsunamis, & stalls & drops the sound & lights at the slightest whim, where other chips keep going (even without KeepAlive) then Soundtraxx can keep it as far as I'm concerned. I have bought my last Tsunami.

Probably not the only time I've mentioned how I've found Tsunami decoders to be 'fussy' & stall and drop the sound frequently.

Well today I finally got around to fitting a TCS KA2 KeepAlive to my O scale Weaver Geep with Protocraft 3Amp "Super Tsunami". Problems solved!! No stalls or hesitation, no sounds & lights going off. Well worth doing! Happy bunny again

[F-UnitMad]

Probably not the only time I've mentioned how I've found Tsunami decoders to be 'fussy' & stall and drop the sound frequently.

Well today I finally got around to fitting a TCS KA2 KeepAlive to my O scale Weaver Geep with Protocraft 3Amp "Super Tsunami". Problems solved!! No stalls or hesitation, no sounds & lights going off. Well worth doing! Happy bunny again

Dammitdammitdammit dammit....

Despite the promising progress yesterday, more extensive testing today, at higher speed & pulling a train, brought about the return of stalling & sound/lights dropout albeit not as bad as before, but still - once is more than enough , when other decoders take their locos over the same track with no problems at all..!!!

Afraid my rather jaundiced view of Soundtrax Tsunami remains; & my decoder of choice will be the Loksound L for future projects...

The KA is definitely working, as now the sound continues for 5 or more seconds after the main power to the layout is cut. Maybe it just isn't big enough (big as it is!!) to cope with a higher Amp motor & decoder? At least it works when the loco is crawling; that's the main requirement.

Edited January 5, 2016 by F-UnitMad

[GP9u]

How did you connect the KA2? I had the same trouble with KA2s in Atlas GPs with Protocraft and regular Tsunamis until I read that the factory cap only buffers sound. So you have to connect the KA2 as below, not just parallel to supplied cap: 

 

http://www.members.optusnet.com.au/mainnorth/alive.htm   (this site seems to need compatibility view mode in IE10+)

 

Also, what track voltage do you have? I set my Digitrax to HO - 14.8V - after I read that the TCS caps are only 16V and not 25V as used by others, and so could be adversely affected by more than about 15V at the track. No idea if that's correct mind you... just seems to work for me.   

 

HTH

 

Pete

Edited January 5, 2016 by GP9u

[F-UnitMad]

Yep, that's the site I used

The KA wires - blue to the blue common +, & black/white to the same point the existing black capacitor wire is soldered.

I have an NCE Powercab with SB3a Booster; can't actually measure the track voltage but Kevin at Coastal DCC said it would be fine with TCS KA's, which I have fitted with a TCS Wowsound and a Loksound L (both in AtlasO locos, with the motors wired in series) Both work fine & are just better with the KA. This Tsunami is better than it was, as well, but still not as reliable as the others.

[GP9u]

OK sounds like you have done all the right things known to Humankind for this setup! 

 

One last thing - clutching at straws a bit: I have a couple of older Atlas China drives where the pickups are sprung plungers, not the newer phosphor-bronze strip wipers. I found the weak link with the plungers is the springs. They were too fine a gauge to conduct enough current and would overheat and lose temper and stop making contact. Also some of them seemed too weak anyway from new to press fully against wheel backs under maximum side-loads. That would be running down my yard lead through multiple switches at medium + speed. If you do have the plungers/springs, you could try adding wipers or (maybe) stronger (conductive, obviously) springs.

 

That's about it for me and my bright ideas...  

 

Pete      

[eetype3]

Hiya - I've just discovered this thread, less-than-coincidentally soon after discovering the joys of US HO-scale diesel railroading (after too many bits falling off/indifferent running from several recent British OO RTR locos, but that's a different story...).

 

Sound is perhaps the most divisive aspect of railway modelling because we all perceive it differently. I'll liken it to musical preference; for example, I'm a bit of a bass-head but my collection includes everything from modern-classical through all aspects of indie, prog and metal to modern electro, but I cannot abide country music - but even then, with the exception of Sheryl Crow. Doubtless many of you would not appreciate my iPod's eclectic offerings, but some may embrace all or part of my preference...the way we listen is equally important as what we're listening to; some enjoy clarity above all, others appreciate a balance and still others like chest-rattling bass, and all possible combinations of the above generalisations exist. Nobody's right or wrong, but it's handy if your particular audiophilic sensibilities match those of the individuals who recorded the sounds and mixed them for tiny speakers.

 

Anyway, back to subject - and assuming that the common element is a quality speaker with a matched enclosure because without that, all discussions regarding sound quality are rendered moot - would you hook-up your audiophile amplifier and CD player to your laptop's speakers? - I find that the ESU Loksound Select and Select Direct sound decoders are the most impressive overall and hence, also the best value. ESU LLC's EMD Roots-blown 645 soundfile is my favourite so far, fitted to my GP38 - it's all there; the deep throb, the generator whine, exhaust resonance at higher notches, the whole nine yards. I'm delighted with it. The same applies to the factory-fitted ESU sound decoder in my Intermountain SD40-2, which is simply superb straight out of the box.

 

Conversely my experience with Tsunami decoders has been less satisfying; I was expecting big things of my Athearn Genesis SD70ACe but it disappoints with indifferent sound (and no switchable start-up/shut-down, despite the air-start being present and playing each time the loco is powered-up on DCC, regardless of whether or not the loco address is selected on the throttle). I'll upgrade the speaker first but I foresee a switch to ESU in its future. My Tsunami EMD 645 non-turbo, bought for my SW1001 project, is also so-so. Perhaps I'm expecting too much from a decoder which effectively announces itself as a generic representation - but to me, the 8, 12 and 16cyl non-turbo 645 EMDs sound very different, particularly in the lower registers, so it's not good enough for me.

 

I have no connection with ESU except as a satisfied customer. Sound decoders represent a significant investment, hence anything less than "great" is always going to disappoint.

 

Hopefully ESU LLC will release a 16-567 turbo soundfile in future so I can model another favourite, the GP35!

[F-UnitMad]

Thanks Pete, I hadn't thought about the internal gubbins of the plunger pick-ups, but only my SW1200 has a Tsunami, & I have the smaller TCS KA1 to fit in that some time, as it also suffers from stalling/dropouts

My other China-drives have the TCS Wowsound & Loksound L. I have even used non-sound NCE DA-SR 1Amp decoders (motors wired in series) & had decent running. The Tsunami/KA2 referred to in my above posts is fitted in a Weaver GP(40) with single big Pittman motor & chain drive. The pickups are brass 'wiper' strips to the insides of the wheels.

I have graphited the inside wheel faces & the track too. It really helps, & as I say I have no problems of this nature with other makes of decoder (it's helpful for analogue 12vDC, too) - just Tsunamis, & they were just as fickle when I used them in HO locos, too.

ah, well - at least, as they say, alternative sound decoders are available....

[CraigZ]

 

Hopefully ESU LLC will release a 16-567 turbo soundfile in future so I can model another favourite, the GP35!

 

Should be out shortly according to Matt at Loksound USA...

[torikoos]

Should be out shortly according to Matt at Loksound USA...

 

Indeed he wrote me a message last week when I asked and wrote: ' It is very close, I need about 2 hours work to fine tune it, problem is finding those 2 hours, hopefully before the weekend'.  

 

That weekend has passed but it does indicate it is almost ready, it may take a few more days or weeks for him to get around to it, that's all. 

[PhilH]

As I've only just started playing trains on my fairly complete trainset I have obviously only just started to experience prolonged running with sound locos. The trainset is situated in a fairly small bedroom (9'6" x 9'6") and I am finding that after a while boy do they get on my wick.

 

Consequently I'm starting to find that I'm turning volumes down to almost a background level. This in turn basically means that it doesn't really matter if the decoder sound is good,bad or indifferent, at volume levels that don't grate after a while it just doesn't matter.

 

What I'm finding is that it's the running of the locos that is much more important to me, and certainly the much vaunted tsunamis are lacking in this respect when compared to, for instance, the Wowsounds or even the QSIs.

 

I might investigate binning loco sounds altogether in favour of some sort of ambient sound system....having 8 or so locos racketting away in a small room is too much for me.

Edited February 22, 2016 by PhilH

[Alcanman]

Hi Phil.

 

Whilst I'm a big fan of DCC sound, I've found that I can only have one loco operating/switching with sound on. Even 2 locos in sound becomes irritatiing and distracting. I'm not surprised that 8 locos in sound is too much for you.

 

However, mute diesels no longer have any appeal for me. Personally, I prefer Tsumanis to QSI, however, the main problem I find appears to the speakers which lack bass. 

[long island jack]

At home, i turn the exhaust volume down to about 80,bell 50,horn 120, main volume 140ish,if I stand 3-4 feet away from layout you can't here them, other than the horn, if I have them to loud SWMBO starts complaining she can't hear corrie!!!

 

Ray

[torikoos]

What I do at home is in general turn the sound down by a fair amount, particularly on prime movers and bells (They carry a long distance...). Horns I leave somewhat louder so that they are still audible over the prime mover. Also here I apply 3ft rule. I don't want to hear it (the loco)  that clearly if it's 3ft or more away, but audible when near. 

 

Further get good speakers that have a balanced output as in just as much low as high. They are small, so nothing will rumble, but the perception is sufficient.  If you're short of space inside, use a 'sugarcube' design, or a derrivative, there's more versions available almost every month now.

Lacking those, if the decoder has EQ settings, roll off (reduce) the high frequencies , don't boost the lower too much as that will generally lead to distortion, leave them be, just adjust the higher ones to suit. That should largely take care of the 'scratchiness' of the sounds, which you'll find is probably the issue that makes you 'tired' of listening.

 

Koos

Edited February 22, 2016 by torikoos