TomJ Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 A quick query as to whether or not a brakevan is required. My layout is set in the mid 80s and one potential working would be a couple of vans tripped from a nearby yard from a Speedlink service, potentially hauled by the local 08. The train would be all air-braked. So does such a working require a brakevan? Obviously not from a braking point of view, but does it require a guard/second man and where would they travel in a single cab loco? Many thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Dagworth Posted October 20, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 20, 2013 In the eighties the guard was not permitted to travel in the driving cab (rear cab yes but not driving cab) so yes, you need a brakevan. Andi Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted October 20, 2013 Share Posted October 20, 2013 In the eighties the guard was not permitted to travel in the driving cab (rear cab yes but not driving cab) so yes, you need a brakevan. Andi I have been loading a few pictures to Flickr this afternoon, and here is an example from 1981 08835 is working an airbraked trip from the Cory depot opposite Cardiff Canton, it is seen passing through Cardiff Central, 7/7/81 cheers edit - and another one from 1982 which this time has the van at the rear 08953 approaches Plymouth from the west with an airbraked trip from either Keyham or Ernesettle MOD, 15/11/82 and a later one from 1985 08792 on a trip from Exeter Riverside to City Basin with bitumen tanks, 9/7/85 cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TomJ Posted October 21, 2013 Author Share Posted October 21, 2013 Cheers guys, exactly the info I needed. Thanks for the pictures, the bitumen tank working is exactly the sort of trip I was trying to replicate. So basically any proper trip of an 08 (ie out the yard) needs a brakevan in the 80s? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 In the eighties the guard was not permitted to travel in the driving cab (rear cab yes but not driving cab) so yes, you need a brakevan. Andi, do you know when this would have ceased to be the case? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6Y99 Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 It is still the case Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Andi, do you know when this would have ceased to be the case? Wasn't it the case that the trains ceased to need a guard, rather than that the 08s had been modified to accomodate one? Even in the late 1960s/early 1970s, I recollect the trip workings from Duport at Old Castle to Llandeilo Junction, which covered about three miles of mainline and loaded up to forty wagons, always seemed to run without a van. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Maybe I didn't phrase my question well - I was thinking the point when a brake van would no longer be needed for trip workings with a loco with a single cab - classes 08, 09 and 20. It is still the case You know why I'm asking! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Maybe I didn't phrase my question well - I was thinking the point when a brake van would no longer be needed for trip workings with a loco with a single cab - classes 08, 09 and 20. You know why I'm asking! The 20s were fitted with a brake valve for the guard in the mid/late1980s, I believe. I don't think 08s and 09s ever received this mod. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 Cheers guys, exactly the info I needed. Thanks for the pictures, the bitumen tank working is exactly the sort of trip I was trying to replicate. So basically any proper trip of an 08 (ie out the yard) needs a brakevan in the 80s? The Sectional Appendix to the Working Timetable lists places where freight vehicles may be worked without a brake van in the rear. For example the West of England appendix dated June 1980 lists about 10 pairs of locations where it is permissible, with various restrictions some are:- St Blazey - Par, and vice versa, (25 Standard Length Units [sLUs], or 60 SLUs with a loco in the rear) Exeter St Davids Middle - Exeter West, and vice versa, Bristol TM Goods - Kingsland Road Yard, and vice versa, (45 SLUs) cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted October 21, 2013 Share Posted October 21, 2013 A brakevan was in use Exeter Riverside to City Basin in the 1990's to Pearce's scrap yard for ASW in Cardiff. Conveyed the shunters from RY no guard but the 08 was double manned. Now loco hauled throughout. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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